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Karma: 1,665 |  | Re: Season 8 - Last Gleaming Part 4: Issue 39
« Reply #480 on Dec 11, 2010, 1:25pm » | |
coda |ˈkōdə|
noun Music
the concluding passage of a piece or movement, typically forming an addition to the basic structure.
• the concluding section of a dance, esp. of a pas de deux or the finale of a ballet in which the dancers parade before the audience.
• a concluding event, remark, or section : his new novel is a kind of coda to his previous books.
ORIGIN mid 18th cent.: Italian, from Latin cauda ‘tail.’
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richie
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Karma: 1,202 | | Re: Season 8 - Last Gleaming Part 4: Issue 39
« Reply #481 on Dec 11, 2010, 4:02pm » | |
humn... thanks wenxina... i thought it could be something more....
thanks 
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Shane
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Karma: 107 | | Re: Season 8 - Last Gleaming Part 4: Issue 39
« Reply #482 on Dec 12, 2010, 1:13am » | |
Dec 10, 2010, 12:45am, wenxina wrote:| My review finally finished and dolled up with pics. Read it HERE. Comments are always welcome on the blog or here, and if it sparks more discussion, yay. |
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I like the theory about Willow being one of the "vestiges" Aluwyn talked about. It leaves more ways for her to be pivotal in the fight and also brings more drama to her personal stories. ![[image]](http://premium1.uploadit.org/Flipsidephilly/emotes/glad.gif "[image]")
Regarding art, I particularly liked the final panels of Giles, with no one shown crying over him in the same panel. I think this makes the scene more about how the reader feels about his death rather than experiencing it vicariously through Buffy and others, which I think can wait till the next issue.
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wenxina
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Karma: 1,665 | | Re: Season 8 - Last Gleaming Part 4: Issue 39
« Reply #483 on Dec 12, 2010, 10:53am » | |
Dec 12, 2010, 1:13am, Shane wrote:
Dec 10, 2010, 12:45am, wenxina wrote:| My review finally finished and dolled up with pics. Read it HERE. Comments are always welcome on the blog or here, and if it sparks more discussion, yay. |
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I like the theory about Willow being one of the "vestiges" Aluwyn talked about. It leaves more ways for her to be pivotal in the fight and also brings more drama to her personal stories. |
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And Joss does like his drama... ![[image]](http://premium1.uploadit.org/Flipsidephilly/emotes/bangel.gif "[image]") ![[image]](http://premium1.uploadit.org/Flipsidephilly/emotes/lol.gif "[image]")   ![[image]](http://premium1.uploadit.org/Flipsidephilly/emotes/spuffy.gif "[image]") ![[image]](http://premium1.uploadit.org/Flipsidephilly/emotes/glomp.gif "[image]") ![[image]](http://premium1.uploadit.org/Flipsidephilly/emotes/slay.gif "[image]")
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beeemkcl
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Karma: 101 | | Re: Season 8 - Last Gleaming Part 4: Issue 39
« Reply #484 on Dec 14, 2010, 9:05pm » | |
AndrewCrossett
Quote:| (For that matter, how was the Twilight Being, or whatever you want to call it, able to talk to Angel before Angel and Buffy "gave birth" to it? Was this a Jasmine type of deal, where the being in question exists already in some form but needs to be "born" in order to come into full power? If so, where did it come from originally? What is it?) |
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Great questions. We saw that Twilight was probably using Whistler. Other than that? And somehow Angel was immediately given a bunch of power. How’d he get them?
richie
Quote:| beeemkcl -> i think youre right in say that if angel was just a good guy and give buffy power and then have sex to create twilight would be a lot easier |
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That’s it and it makes sense. What they did in Season 8 was so convoluted and messy that it didn’t really make sense. Going for the pain stuff, the stuff in the series did make sense. Season 8? Not really. And even after everything Angel did, Buffy still needed to be ‘glowified’ for her to have sex with him and even in Twilight she wanted to go back to the Earth.
Quote:| and i think angel was trying to do some good... of course was the wroong way... but i think in his head he was just doing qhat he thought was the best... |
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I don’t really believe so. Angel does what he wants to do and is often very selfish. And was again in Season 8. And, in ways, it’s worse if Angel actually thought he was doing good and doing what’s best.
Dorotea
Quote: Whistler has visions of the timelines dwindling and disappearing. The only logical explanation - assuming that he is not lying - is that the only future in which humanity survives is that of the broken Seed. And the only way that the Seed would be broken is to first bring about the Twilight.
Mind that Whistler is our 'local' demon - and same as all other local demons he has no interest in his habitat being consumed by Twilight. He is also usually a messenger of our local PTB's. |
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Who says Whistler is a local demon, a demon, a balance demon, and whatever else.
Responding to posts for 8.39, I realized that Whistler is only involved in the Buffy/Angel relationship. He’s the one that showed Angel Buffy. He’s the one who showed up trying to get Buffy to an emotional place that she could kill Angel. And he shows up in Season 8 specifically to try to get Angel and Buffy back together, only this time as superbeings who get to create their own world. It’s possible that Whistler was working for Twilight this entire time, meaning since introducing Angel to Buffy.
moscowwatcher
Quote:| For example, Angel refuses to follow Twilight's plan; Twilight chooses Roden and Gigi |
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Roden wasn’t a vampire. And was Gigi going to be having sex with Roden?
Nick Scarlett
Quote:| beeemkcl, by "emotional stasis," what I really meant was Buffy's ability to love anyone other than Angel. I think it has been demonstrated that she desires other characters sexually, such as Riley, Spike and Satsu, but I think she's always held back her love, reserving it only for Angel, and in retrospect, every relationship she's had since has been doomed by Buffy's own belief that one day she and Angel will be together. |
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Buffy in “Lessons” (7.01) and “Beneath You” (7.02) talks about her relationship with Angel and her relationship with Spike in an equal way. In “Conversations With Dead People” (7.07), she was only talking about her relationship with Spike. And in Season 8, in her dreams, she’s thinking about them in an equal way.
Speaking of that one ‘dream’ where she’s transported back to Season 1, she doesn’t even kiss Angel or want him around her. And that dream could have been there because of Twilight, who wanted her with Angel.
The canon actually demonstrates that she fell in love with Spike as well. Of course she didn’t ever refer to him as her boyfriend and they didn’t do boyfriend and girlfriend stuff like going to be the movies or having picnics, but there wasn’t really time for that in Season 7, was there.
Quote:| As for Angel's motivation […] it seems like he told the lion, "You had me at I have to have sex with Buffy." |
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And also about being able to be important and powerful. There’s a big difference between Buffy and Angel. Angel started Angel Investigations in order to make a lot of money in order for himself and Cordy and Wesley (and Gunn) to live well. Buffy worked fast food. And while Angel felt the need to live in a super-luxury 68-room hotel in an expensive area and later worked for Wolfram and Hart and got a huge penthouse apartment, Spike was okay living in a crypt and living in a really crappy basement apartment. So, Angel’s easily corrupted and easy to work for anything that could be a higher power because it makes him seem important.
Quote:| Although much of this was the result of active choices he made, I don't support killing Angel, because I don't think he knowingly did evil. |
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The plan to begin with was evil. But, it doesn’t even matter. This guy has almost directly ended the world 3 times now. The cost/benefit analysis easily concludes that he should be killed. And he can be reverted back to Angelus with a simple happy pill or powerful magic. This guy is far too dangerous to the world.
Willow has almost ended the world and risked it ending in 8.39. She was only able to do both because of her magic. But she’s also a great danger to the world because who knows what she’d do or risk to get magic back.
Quote:| Also, Buffy was complicit in the creation of Twilight |
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No, she wasn’t. Buffy didn’t know about the Twilight universe. Buffy was ‘glow-influenced’ into having sex with Angel in the first place.
Quote:| I will be disappointed if Buffy puts all the blame on Angel, rather than acknowledging her own responsibility for all the deaths that were caused, including Giles's; however, she's done this before. |
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What responsibility? All she did was have sex with Angel, and not get Willow to turn Angel into something that can be killed. And trusted that Angel would kill demons to save the Slayers. Buffy’s not responsible for any of the deaths that happened. Angel is. And she was influenced into doing the bad stuff that she did. What she seems to blame herself for is not admitting to herself that Angel is evil and always has been. In 8.39 she seems to now believe that Angel, Angelus, and AngelTwilight are all the same person.
Quote:| There was plenty of blame to go around when Spuffy imploded, but Spike was willing to take all the blame publicly, and Buffy was more than happy to let him. The only character she ever told the truth to was that vampire in CwDP that she conveniently staked. Her own abusiveness in that relationship was never found out (not that anyone except maybe Dawn would have cared). |
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WTF?!! Are you seriously comparing Season 6 Buffy/Spike to what happens in Season 8? They aren’t comparable at all. And what blame in Season 6? He had sex with Anya and she saves him. She defends herself to Xander when he attacks her for being with Spike. Spike goes to her because of what Dawn says and she doesn’t admit to loving him and so the attempted rape happens. And when Xander finds out she wants him not to tell anyone. And she is responsible for deaths in Season 6 because it’s implied in “Lessons” (7.01) that people died because instead of patrolling, Buffy was with Spike all the time.
Quote:| I'm hoping she doesn't try to let someone else take all the blame again. |
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Besides still seeming to be in love with Angel in Season 8 before he’s revealed as Twilight, she has zero blame for everything that happened after the reveal.
angeliclestat
Quote:| What would save season 8 for me is if it is shown that Angel *did* do the right thing. |
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That’s not possible. The only way that Angel could be okay is if he was influenced from the very beginning when he decided to become Twilight. But then the whole Season is largely a waste.
How about if they came out and said that Buffy and Spike were both ‘influenced’ in Season 6 and that’s why they acted as they did towards each other. And that Willow was ‘influenced’ and that’s why she was so addicted to magic and the power that it gave her.
moscowwatcher
Quote:| Angeliclestat - I definitely remember reading somewhere that in season 9 Angel will try to "undo what he had done" |
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By my count, to make up for all he’s done, he needs to get Drusilla into Heaven, and save the entire world 3 times, and then kill himself because he’s too dangerous to the world for him to not be dusted.
leyki
Quote:| And how did the army got the intelligence about the seed? |
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Maybe the PTB gave it to him.
Quote:| How did Spike learn about the seed? |
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He was in another dimension; maybe he found out there.
Quote:| How did Giles figured it out that breaking it was a solution? |
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Snake lady said that both Giles and Spike would figure out that breaking the Seed would win the day.
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wenxina
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Karma: 1,665 | | Re: Season 8 - Last Gleaming Part 4: Issue 39
« Reply #485 on Dec 14, 2010, 10:16pm » | |
Could we please wrap up the conversations here, and move them to the new forum?
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richie
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Karma: 1,202 | | Re: Season 8 - Last Gleaming Part 4: Issue 39
« Reply #486 on Dec 15, 2010, 5:23pm » | |
im trying to register on the new forum but it dont send me my account confirmation... so i'll post here just not to lose all that i wrote...
beeemkcl ---> i dont igree with you... when angel started the AI he didnt charge people.... cordy came up with that ideia....
and spike killed a lot of people... so he should die too??? he have a music trigger thing... so i think he should die... and illyria? she tryied to kill people too, failed but tryied... and shes instable... so... she should be killed??? angel tried 3 times end the world... illyria ruled once, and almost endend twice(one in the shell episodio, and again in time bomb, involuntariely, but still)
like giles said... buffy will never stop angel... so... angel, when he killed giles was not angel, was twilight, the full creature... so does he get excused for giles death? since you think buffy dont get any guilt... when he killed giles angel wasnt himslef either...
and them again, how many times angel saved the world? im fairaly sure it was more than 3 times...
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