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Post by faithlehane on Jan 8, 2010 9:41:34 GMT -5
I highly doubt these covers are real.
Joss has always been so careful and intricate about revealing spoilers, that I doubt he would throw away all his morals for something as big as this.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jan 8, 2010 9:48:47 GMT -5
This makes me sad. Andrew! You've always been Mr. Season 8! Don't give up just yet! I'm not giving up on season 8 yet. I still think this is a fake-out, albeit a VERY ill-advised one. Ill-advised because whichever way it goes, some large segment of fans are going to see this as insensitive at best, a betrayal at worst. And unless Scott debunks it quickly, like with the Obama cover... if he tries to maintain the fiction that these are the real covers... he's going to be flooded with questions and puzzled blog posts from now until April as to: 1. Why Dark Horse totally castrated their Big Reveal in #33, sacrificing possibly several thousand sales from casual but non-regular readers who might have bought the issue out of curiosity; 2. Why Buffy is making out with the villain on the cover... a man who has slaughtered dozens of brave teenaged girls... all with lives and families and hopes and dreams... who depended on her, turned her into a worldwide pariah, tried to have Willow tortured to death, put Satsu in the hospital, tried to flood the children of the world with murderous vampiric "toys", and convinced the world to sit back and smile while demons feast on them; 3. Why they have chosen to completely derail the dramatic tension of the season's climax by switching suddenly to a goofy 1960's-style romance comic. Letting questions like that go unanswered for 3 months is not a recipe for happy PR. And even if Scott posts today that, yeah, it's all a gag, and maybe a "gift" for all the Bangel shippers who have been so frustrated this season... those very shippers will be furious for being led on in that way and having their favorite 'ship turned into a parody. So yeah... I'm not real happy about this.
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Post by wenxina on Jan 8, 2010 9:48:59 GMT -5
Hmmm... *looks at over 4 pages of discussion in the last 12 hours*... Yeah, ya know what? This could possibly be the best series of moves that the Dark Horse marketing team has made in a long time. They've used the kernels planted along the way to spark just the possibility that it might be Angel. I think outrage was expected, and it was a calculated move. It got people talking again. They're interested, and invested again. And so far, I haven't seen any proclamations of dropping the series. No, people want to see if it's real. The only ones who are feeling gloat-y and self-satisfied right now are the ones who've already dropped the title. And that's their prerogative... totally fine with that. But everyone else... well, they may be shocked, sad, angry, excited, etc, but they're now really excited again. Haven't seen this much buzz about S8 in a while, and so it's a welcome change. We even have a member who's trying to get people to agree not to spoil the Twilight reveal outside the S8 boards. So really... real covers or not, kudos Dark Horse. Mission accomplished. You have our attention.
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Randi Giles
Wise-cracking Sidekick
I Want to Believe
Moon Eyes in disguise.[Mo0:34]
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Randi Giles on Jan 8, 2010 9:53:13 GMT -5
No, no, no,no and no. I don't like this one bit. I never nderstood why people thought Angel could be Twilight and even though I'm not a Bangel fan I do not want Twilight to be Angel. Please let this be a fakeout.
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Post by wenxina on Jan 8, 2010 9:58:45 GMT -5
Hi-res covers now available on the first post. Btw, noticed that everyone was too busy freaking out to notice that the issue count is now back to 5! If anyone wants to ask Scott a clarification question, be my guest... 4 or 5?! Seriously! Don't all be asking questions about the Twilight reveal... one person will suffice (draw straws as AndrewCrossett suggested). Plus, expect the typical "no spoiler" response...
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jan 8, 2010 10:04:11 GMT -5
It's an attention-grabber, but as I posted above, that may be a double-edged sword, and then some.
Until now, I never objected to the idea of Twilight being Angel. I didn't think it would be him... too obvious from the start, and not really supported by much of anything.
But at this point, after seeing those covers, if Twilight really does prove to be Angel...
Only the most amazing, twisty, brilliant feat of writing would convince me that season 8 didn't just crash into the mountainside with all hands lost. It would take literally the most brilliant piece of writing in Buffyverse history to save it for me.
Does Joss really entrust that feat of writing to Brad Meltzer, a guy who's never written Buffy before?
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Post by butters on Jan 8, 2010 10:56:56 GMT -5
Im sure these covers are real other wise they just didnt have to show them. If Marvel or DC has comic covers with spoilers they dont want out they just dont release them. Simple as that. With all the work already going into season 8 i cant see them ordering 2 extra fake cover to be made. Now to what the covers mean that we can specualte from here till were holding 34 in our dirty little hands! And i agree with wenxina, "really excited again" ;D
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richie
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:1]
Posts: 170
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Post by richie on Jan 8, 2010 11:19:59 GMT -5
well after the guy noticed the 5 instead of 4 i'm positively sure that this cover is fake... well its the issue 5 of 4.... its like the song on OMWF, this angel being the big T could be some chidren dreaming and were stuck in this nightmare, witches, some evil witches?or it could be bunnies? just a useless side note: do you guys believe that here in brazil, when OMWF aired they chopped the ep? i just saw the bunnies part of the song when i got the chosen dvd???god i hate the tv channels from here....
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on Jan 8, 2010 11:24:34 GMT -5
Just seen what the picture was. I went from to to Why would they do this. I pray that its a hoax, and I aint even religious
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Post by henzINNIT on Jan 8, 2010 11:39:24 GMT -5
Hmmm... *looks at over 4 pages of discussion in the last 12 hours*... Yeah, ya know what? This could possibly be the best series of moves that the Dark Horse marketing team has made in a long time. I don't lol. A few moments of excitement just turned into a fairly disappointed hollowness. There's a lot of activity but not so much with the high spirits. They should drop a ton of matching covers with all the options, and we find out which one is true when it's released in store. That would be cool; and we wouldn't be sitting around debating whether it's a mistake or a prank. Twilight is Angel? I don't buy it for a second, so I hope to god it's a (bad) joke.
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shaz
Innocent Bystander
I've got 'Vorward momentum'![Mo0:18]
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Post by shaz on Jan 8, 2010 11:52:28 GMT -5
I really hope it's a fake. Not because I don't like the idea of Angel as Twilight but because I was really looking forward to finding out his identity the moment I read issue 33 and not before! My other half warned me he thought it might get leaked before hitting the shelves but I was sure it could be kept under wraps.
Also if this does turn out to be a joke, does this mean we can rule Angel off our list of Twilight suspects?
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Post by wenxina on Jan 8, 2010 11:55:29 GMT -5
Doesn't matter if you're feeling hollow. Point is, you're invested enough to feel hollow. And you, like many others now want to know if it's true. I keep reading "I bet it's a hoax" or "I don't buy it for a second", only to nullify your confidence with the fatalistic statement of "I hope to god it isn't so!". Nothing in there says that you're going to stop reading. In fact, it sounds like you will be following in through.
The feeling of hollowness is not something alien to the series. Granted, fans aren't usually fans of those moments: Jenny Calendar being unceremoniously killed, Oz leaving the show, Tara dying, Buffy being abandoned by her friends, the attempted rape, etc. But they all have payoffs, in one way or another. This isn't a "In Joss I trust" speech (I hate those statements anyway... sound like mindless sheep to me). This is me saying that based on the track record of the series thus far, it's not being played for mere shock value. Sure, shock is good... keeps the readers on their toes. But it goes beyond just doing that. All the shock moments are to remind you that you care for the characters, and they usually all have payoffs. So it may be Angel. It may be a mislead. Either way, people are now chattering about the latest perceived development. It's a cover image. It's meant to be evocative and provocative, but not necessarily encapsulate the contents in its entirety. As far as covers go, these have just done their job really well. Hell, in a year, they may even be featured on those "Top 20" covers of the year lists. It all depends on the outcome of the entire saga. People will be happy. People will be disappointed. Happened all the time, and yet the show remains a cult favorite. People were not happy when Buffy activated all the Potentials. Others thought it was the ballsiest move yet. Some weren't happy when Angel left Sunnydale. Others are thankful that he got to become his own person, on his own show, and tell his own stories. You'll be hard-pressed to find a fan of the current IDW run who's not thankful that Angel left Sunnydale. Point is, it's the nature of the beast of storytelling. You're not going to please everybody, or anyone at all. So far, aside from a few missteps (the flabbiness of "Predators and Prey" and entrusting Espenson with such a large chunk of the storyline without better supervision and execution), I'm invested in where S8 is headed.
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Post by Emmie on Jan 8, 2010 12:14:09 GMT -5
A note on Jeanty's cover: Georges signs all his homage covers with "Vies" so what's notable on this one is the "After Infantino" portion. I think Jeanty's cover might be an homage to this work by Infantino: Click to View Interesting to note how the sexes are inverted on Jeanty's cover, making Buffy Superman to Angel's Wonderwoman.
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Jan 8, 2010 12:28:52 GMT -5
Doesn't matter if you're feeling hollow. Point is, you're invested enough to feel hollow. I find the whole thing interesting. I don't feel very strongly about Angel-as-Twilight either way (because, as I said before, I find Twilight to be a bland cipher of a character) but I'm excited about Angel being in the book in any capacity and the possible red herringness of it all is quite intriquing. I hate to say it, but at this point I'm detatched enough from Season Eight to just let it do it's own thing. I certainly haven't "dropped the book" but I can't muster much enthusiasm for a story that's been shuffling along for years. The same thing happened with Astonishing X-Men... perfectly good book, but nobody cared by the time it was over. Joss just can't pace comics for shit. This is me saying that based on the track record of the series thus far, it's not being played for mere shock value. A year ago I would have agreed with this, but the writing on Season Eight hasn't been as tight as the show. This season has been riddled with half-baked, weakly executed ideas (Warren's resurrection, Batsu, vampires-are-cool, Faith's social worker storyline, Dawnder) and I just don't trust the writers as much as I used to. I think Joss took the television series a little more seriously than the comic, and it shows. I wouldn't put it past him if he just thought "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Angel was Twilight?" I'm just happy to get two nice covers out of it all. Who cares about the story when you have that Chen cover to look at? Interesting to note how the sexes are inverted on Jeanty's cover, making Buffy Superman to Angel's Wonderwoman. I thought Angel looked a bit gay...
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jan 8, 2010 12:38:37 GMT -5
Re: phrasing the Big Question for next Wednesday's Q&A...
I'm pretty good at cagey question phrasing, and in this case I think we should use wording that invites either elaboration or contradiction, and also sets a Denial Trap... where refusing to comment is enlightening in and of itself.
If we word it something like:
"After all the anticipation and secrecy surrounding the Twilight reveal, what was behind the decision to spoil it in the #34 solicits rather than in the pages of #33?"
This basically leaves three choices of response:
1. Say "who says we spoiled anything?"
2. Confirm that they did indeed spoil, and explain why
3. Say "no spoilers [regarding this question]", which confirms that there are still spoilers in play -- that is, the covers should not be taken literally. Or alternatively, "no comment," which also indicates there's something fishy about the whole thing.
The question thus phrased also points at the elephant in the room... that many less fanatical readers will assume the secret's already been revealed and not bother buying #33 and possibly getting drawn back into the story.
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Overkill
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Post by Overkill on Jan 8, 2010 12:51:41 GMT -5
Well, either way I feel like it's gonna be a great issue for Bangel fans. I'm so excited for this.
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richie
Potential Slayer
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Post by richie on Jan 8, 2010 13:14:03 GMT -5
yeah i think this issue gonna be great.... and i agree that its a good work of dark horse... cause i bet people who lost the interst in the series would buy this particular issue, just to know if twilight is angel or not.... and i agree with wexina, if its angel, its gonna have a consequence... just llike jenny, and all the exemples she pointed out... like cordy said: "Everything happens for a reason"
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Paul on Jan 8, 2010 13:33:07 GMT -5
Random thought... since vampires don't age, it's possible this is some future version of Angel, rather than the present-day Angel we all know and love. That would keep our Angel nice and innocent, and safe in his own book. Maybe the Slayer army had terrible consequences in Twilight-Angel's timeline, so he's come back Terminator-style to fix it. At any cost. Could explain his personality changes. In fact, maybe this has something to do with evil Shanshu-Angel seen in AtF (though I doubt Joss is that cool). Hmm, starting to warm to Angel as Twilight, and not just cos of the skin-tight leather outfit. There's a lot of hints that make sense in retrospect as well ("I know that move", "Young love...")
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Post by wenxina on Jan 8, 2010 13:50:14 GMT -5
Joss just can't pace comics for shit. Some would argue that he can't pace anything for shit anymore. The pacing of the first season of Dollhouse is partially blamed for why the show never took off. Perhaps he can't pace things... but I think it's symptomatic of today's "quick return" mindframe. I care about Joss' work and characters not because they fit in with the exciting times. Like his AXM run which I know you have previously said couldn't compete for attention with the "Messiah Complex" storyline taking over the X-Men universe at that point. True... it's not necessarily current, but his characters are so much more compelling. The decompressed method of storytelling he employs is dated... but so is Huckleberry Finn. Doesn't mean it's not good... just that it may not satisfy people the same way it did back in its heyday.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jan 8, 2010 14:02:28 GMT -5
Maybe the Slayer army had terrible consequences in Twilight-Angel's timeline, so he's come back Terminator-style to fix it. At any cost. Could explain his personality changes. In fact, maybe this has something to do with evil Shanshu-Angel seen in AtF (though I doubt Joss is that cool). It does not, however, explain why Buffy would be making out with a mass murderer. Is she really so pathetic that she'd fall into his arms just because it's Angel? Was Xander right -- more than even he knew -- with his accusations in Becoming and Dead Man's Party and Revelations, that Buffy basically shuts down her brain and starts drooling like Pavlov's dog whenever her demon lover is in her sights? I don't think Joss is even capable of plotting a story that badly.
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