The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on May 5, 2010 0:42:24 GMT -5
Well, seen the preview (about bloody time!) and I'm not quite sure what to make about this. I'm still not happy about the whole Twangel thing and I fear for the rest of the series, I really do
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Post by wenxina on May 5, 2010 0:49:22 GMT -5
And what would the fandom do, if there wasn't some fear involved? There was plenty of fear in S6, where people were wondering how the hell the Scoobies were going to emerge from the whole gloom and doom bit. In the end, some were happy with the end, and others weren't. The same will happen here. And that's just the nature of the beast. A story won't always appeal to everyone.
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on May 5, 2010 0:57:41 GMT -5
Well, I guess that's true. The series was going great until #34, now just seeing how that is going to be played out, what level of fan-wacking will be involved and such
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kamw30
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 4
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Post by kamw30 on May 5, 2010 2:57:02 GMT -5
I know this is an insane thing to be wondering about, but....
Having read the preview pages, is it my imagination or has Angel shrunk?
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Post by wenxina on May 5, 2010 7:05:47 GMT -5
Does kinda seem like it, but I think that's just Jeanty's art. That, or Buffy's floating a little higher than Angel is.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on May 5, 2010 7:26:18 GMT -5
Well, there's always going to be some shrinkage at this point. Give Angel another 15 minutes and he'll be as good as new.
OK, enough with the sex imagery for now...
I wonder how Buffy is going to get back with the Scoobies this issue, as Jeanty's cover suggests she will. And I wonder whether her departure is her idea or theirs. It could be emblematic of her leaving them all behind, dead, of course.
I guess we'll see if the new Bufflight still has any feelings left for her old friends, or if it's all about moving on to her fancy new fake CGI world.
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Post by wenxina on May 5, 2010 8:24:43 GMT -5
I guess we'll see if the new Bufflight still has any feelings left for her old friends, or if it's all about moving on to her fancy new fake CGI world. Is that really in question here? Buffy was, afterall the girl who abandoned the "ideal" reality in which she wasn't the Slayer, she didn't have a younger sister, and her parents were still together, and both loved her, for a world that seemed like hell. She chose to continue fighting. Heck, 2000 Slayers later, and she's still fighting, instead of retreating like a contented general after a successful takedown. It's been a continuous thread in the show: we keep fighting. Even when it "ended", it didn't end with a "Ra Ra, We Won... Let's Rest". We left S7 with a reminder of the other Hellmouth in Cleveland, and the change in the mission statement. Even if S8 were Buffy's swansong (which it isn't), I really don't think that Joss would ever give up on what he's built all these years, and make Buffy as despicable as you seem to think she is.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on May 5, 2010 8:29:58 GMT -5
Okay. But at the moment, I consider the free pass she's giving Twangel to be simply poor writing. It's dreadfully out of character and inappropriate.
There have been instances of bad writing in the Buffyverse before, and I guess this is another.
I may change that opinion after I've read the full issue, but I kind of doubt I will.
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Post by wenxina on May 5, 2010 8:40:09 GMT -5
And human beings sometimes act out of character. We're not entirely rational, despite all pretenses. There are things we feel, say, do, that seem irrational at times, even to ourselves. If Buffy's supposed to seem real to us, then yeah, there are going to be times when she acts a little wonky. Chalk it up to bad writing, but sometimes, that's really not the case. Sometimes, when we claim that something is "bad writing", it's because the character isn't doing what we think they should be doing. Or what we would like them to be doing, because in our mind, that's the "right" or "best" thing they could and should be doing. Or at least, that's the flipside to the argument for people who don't view the moment as being OOC.
Now Faith acting whiny... that's OOC. And that's why #24 sucked more than an industrial strength Hoover vacuum cleaner.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on May 5, 2010 8:56:25 GMT -5
It all comes down to the fact that if Buffy is in control of her actions right now, she's a contemptible betrayer, and I hate her for it. I will have to classify her as a selfish, cold-hearted whore.
That's just flat-out how I feel.
And they're not doing a good job of selling the notion that she's not in control of her actions.
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alex_krycek
Rogue Demon Hunter
keeper of the x-files
sorry, i just remembered seeing king ralph[Mo0:30]
Posts: 484
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Post by alex_krycek on May 5, 2010 9:00:40 GMT -5
^agreed.
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Post by Wyndam on May 5, 2010 11:59:20 GMT -5
Buffy and Angel are back baby, whoohoo!
More to follow, as this demands a re-read pronto.
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Post by wenxina on May 5, 2010 12:03:16 GMT -5
Part 2 of Buffyfest's interview with Brad Meltzer HERE.
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on May 5, 2010 12:11:33 GMT -5
good read and yay spike! I'm also not surprised at Buffy decision to defy twilight and go back
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Post by AndrewCrossett on May 5, 2010 12:26:49 GMT -5
Spoilers here... I guess we don't have to mark them after the comic is already out? Got it, read it. Didn't hate it (which is a big accomplishment). Didn't jump for joy either, except for a couple of points. After reading it, I feel better towards the following characters than I did before: Buffy (though still with reservations) Willow Warren Spike And the following characters dug themselves deeper: Angel Amy The General Yes, Angel. Even though he ultimately decides to go with Buffy and fight the demons, he was clearly reluctant to do so. The selfish sack of crap tries several times to convince Buffy to leave her friends and the world to fend for themselves, so he can stay there happy in Paradise with his girlfriend. (To use a much more polite term for her than the General did.) Buffy made the best decisions she possibly could have, in light of the things she's already guilty of. Willow got in a couple of beautifully cutting remarks to both Angel and Buffy: WILLOW: "And... Twilight. Can I just mention that I preferred Angelus?" ANGEL: "Had that coming." WILLOW: "What you got coming you better hope never comes." And... BUFFY: "Willow, I'm sorry." WILLOW: "I know, I know... you don't know what came all over you." Judging by what's happening around the world, and the fact that most humans don't have a squad of Slayers and two of the world's most powerful witches to defend them, I'd say Angel and Buffy's body count of innocents is now well into the millions. The only way they can ever make this right is to somehow undo what's already been done. Which may be where Spike comes in. Spike is now poised to make his final argument why he is a hero, and Angel is not. It's clear the creators of this comic and I are not going to agree on Angel's level of culpability for what's happened. Scott Allie said he hoped that this issue would show that Angel wasn't really a cold-blooded killer. In that respect...
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Post by hitnrun017 on May 5, 2010 12:44:09 GMT -5
If people are still upset with Buffy after this issue... I just don't get it.
Awesome final issue to an awesome arc. I'm still not quite getting Angel, there's questions and morals that need to be answered/brought up, and hopefully that's where Joss comes in. Still though, glad he went back with Buffy and kicked some ass.
Yay Spike! This three month wait is going to be killer.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on May 5, 2010 12:50:35 GMT -5
If people are still upset with Buffy after this issue... I just don't get it. I'm upset with her for choosing to bang a mass-murderer in the first place, and causing all of this. Everything that's happening now is still partly her fault. If she finds a way to undo it, then all will be well. If not, then she's still got a whole lot to answer for. And, as she says to Angel, she's only doing this because her friends are in danger... not because humanity is.
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Post by hitnrun017 on May 5, 2010 13:10:38 GMT -5
If people are still upset with Buffy after this issue... I just don't get it. I'm upset with her for choosing to bang a mass-murderer in the first place, and causing all of this. Everything that's happening now is still partly her fault. If she finds a way to undo it, then all will be well. If not, then she's still got a whole lot to answer for. And, as she says to Angel, she's only doing this because her friends are in danger... not because humanity is. Undoing all this is a must. In Buffy's (and Angel's I guess) defense, they didn't know what they were doing would cause this mess. But yeah, the damage is too much. Giving up perfect happiness, and literally saying "f*ck you" to the universe in order to save her family makes me love her even more. Now it's operation redeem Angel time. He still better be questioned though, by everyone.
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vampmogs
Novice Witch
[Mo0:16]
Posts: 208
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Post by vampmogs on May 5, 2010 13:11:28 GMT -5
I'm upset with her for choosing to bang a mass-murderer in the first place, and causing all of this. Everything that's happening now is still partly her fault. If she finds a way to undo it, then all will be well. If not, then she's still got a whole lot to answer for Buffy was being pushed into sleeping with Angel though. In Issue #34 they state; “However much Buffy and Angel might love and miss each other whatever Buffy is feeling now is the pull of something far more ancient. Far more powerful. And far more destructive”“Think about it. She should be staking him right now. She did once, to save the world. Now the world won’t let her. It isn’t just reacting to what they’re doing it’s urging them on.”Something was causing Buffy to act that way. She may still be held partially responsible because I do believe she had a *moment* of weakness and gave in to the glow but she hardly knew it'd start an apocalypse or that she'd have 'destiny sex.' So I don’t think it’s really fair to still be blaming her for sleeping with Angel when they state that something is “urging her on” and “not letting her” stake him. And we still don't know how much this glow was affecting Angel as well. Meltzer states that they were both being pushed, Willow says it's urging "them" on, and we saw the glow around him as well. I haven't read this issue yet so I won't form an opinion on Angel but Meltzer says "we'll see" in regards to how effected Angel was by the glow so I'm guessing Joss will write about it some more. Nevertheless, it's pretty clear *Buffy* was being pushed here and that she can't be held very responsible for her actions. She did the right thing here and went back down to help her friends as soon as she snapped out of it.
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on May 5, 2010 13:25:19 GMT -5
Initial reaction: loved every page and panel.
And when I get back from my final I will re-read it and have a more detailed opinion to give. But you know what? Teasing Spike's appearance all season and then making it a page-turn shocker? Brilliant. Also, in a weird kinda way, seeing the battle scenes with Faith/Andrew/etc. reminded me a lot of Thought You Should Know. Good thing? Hmm... things to ponder...
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