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Post by wenxina on Apr 21, 2010 11:20:30 GMT -5
IDW July 2010 Solicitations Books in the line-up include ANGEL #35, the HC edition of Willingham's first arc of the ANGEL franchise, and Spike: The Devil You Know #2. Some new cover art. Click HEE.
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Post by wenxina on Apr 27, 2010 8:35:33 GMT -5
5-page preview HERE, courtesy of Comics Continuum.
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jellymoff
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Post by jellymoff on Apr 27, 2010 9:14:00 GMT -5
Blurg. That hulk-ish panel of Angel is ridonkulous.
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The Night Lord
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Post by The Night Lord on Apr 28, 2010 1:06:15 GMT -5
You know, I honestly forgot all about the Angel series, due to Angel being in Buffy (no pun intended) and after checking this preview, I'm kinda meh over the series. Felicia's delusional, Connor is apparently still a dumb hormonal kid, Illyria doesn't sound anything at all like Illyria and so forth and so forth
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Post by Wyndam on Apr 28, 2010 15:29:07 GMT -5
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BlueJay
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Post by BlueJay on Apr 28, 2010 15:30:58 GMT -5
The subtitle is "Roman a Clef"
Okay, read the issue. All I gotta say is "What the **** is Willingham thinking?"
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Post by hitnrun017 on Apr 28, 2010 15:51:17 GMT -5
Yeah I'm done after reading this preview (and everyone's thoughts about how the series is going). I was committed to buying the hardcovers for Willingham's run so I could keep up with the main title, but now I just can't be bothered. The characters aren't his to make his own. If there is a reason why the characters are acting so OOC (that's kind of ridiculous), it still doesn't excuse the awful dialogue. I don't have the patience to wait around for months to find out why they are being so mistreated. Seems like a cop out. "Oh! I'm SUPPOSE to be writing them like they are idiots."
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BlueJay
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Post by BlueJay on Apr 28, 2010 16:02:10 GMT -5
Also, I think the next arc or subtitle is called "Life in Connorland"
..pfft. This whole arc has been WAY too Connor-centric
Okay, so this is basically the gist of the story.
Connor, Spike, and Gunn have Felicia Valentine tied up at the Hyperion to make her talk about Innovation Labs. They also have a conversation about Connor's penis.
Meanwhile, Angel is freed and he and Illyria have a confrontation with Alex Roman - complete with awkward Illyria dialog.
At the hotel, Spike dusts Felicia after she tells them all about Innovation Labs. Before the gang leaves to rescue Angel, Connor and Gunn have THE MOMENT. (Finally!) Basically, Connor tells Gunn that he believes Gunn is a weak link and can't be trusted because of the events in "After the Fall". Gunn explains that he was a vampire and those events technically don't exist anymore, but Connor stays firm. Gunn then rants that Connor was even more untrustworthy because of the events of late-Season Three and Season Four. Gunn decides that he's going to depart from Angel (and Son) Investigations and reform his original street gang. So apparently, Gunn is now out of the picture and the gang is now Connor, Kate, Dez (who turns back into a kitty), Spike, James, and George. (I didn't see George anywhere in this issue though)
Meanwhile, Laura Weathermill attempts to break Angel out of Innovation Labs, shooting up a lot of employees in the process. However Angel is already okay by that point. After knocking out Alex Roman, she explains that she intended to free Angel and put an end to Innovation Lab's practice of vampire siring. Also, Angel and Illyria are introduced to her "colleage" a really demon-smart floating rock named Mr. Polymephus. (Seriously!)
Soon enough Connor and the gang arrive to rescue Angel, but again, Angel's already okay. Illyria then gets ready to jump Connor's bones. DUM DUM DUM
***
As for Eddie Hope in "The Getaway", he bumps into Gwen Raiden who is "running away" from the Morimoto Corporation. Eddie then fights off the armed guards for her, but as he is distracted, she drives away in Eddie's car.
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Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Apr 28, 2010 17:11:57 GMT -5
I'm still not sold on the whole "Illyria jumping Connor's bones" thing... but this issue placated me SOMEWHAT.
I think bitsy's comments are spot-on, but the problem is, of course, this:
That's a big problem. Willingham's style with regards to how he's writing the book finally clicked for me in this issue. The problem is that it does not mesh with anything we've seen before. Oh, sure, he can reference things that happened in After the Fall and all dandy, but come on - Gunn's temper tantrum played like a spoiled 5-year-old crying because he didn't get the toy he wanted. That wasn't the intent (since it's really about power, and Gunn is tired of playing second fiddle to Daddy's Little Devil-Child), but that's how it ended up being written. Same goes for Spike. I didn't notice last issue's horrid characterization of him because there was still some Spike there... it's just not the Spike that has a morbid fascination with Slayers, fought vamp-tooth-and-nail for his soul, then sacrificed said new life for the greater good, only to be resurrected in a house of evil and still ends up fighting the good fight.
And back to Gunn, I AM STILL NOT OKAY WITH IGNORING ONLY HUMAN. /me just frakking angry
Basically, he's writing Fables using Angel characters. Seriously. "And me"? Really, Nina (that was Nina, right)? Really, Bill? We're gonna go down that road now? I want those horrific Buffy S8 Retreat werewolf fights back. Way cooler. Only upside to Willingham's current story is the introduction of the new Watcher lady... and I'm not totally sold on her yet, either.
Meanwhile, Williams gets one of the most underused characters of the TV show and a new character of sheer awesome, mixes them together in Messina's art, and makes magic. What.
I dunno. I may keep reading just to see what Willingham does next. But I don't have to be very happy about it, and I'm not.
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neowhobaz
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Post by neowhobaz on Apr 28, 2010 18:05:13 GMT -5
Ok. Up to now and I feel fairly confident in saying this, but I feel as though I've been the most outspoken in defending willinghams arc for the sake of loving having an ongoing Angel title. With anyone sharing my view we've bided our time rationalizing saying that it will get better or less bad. I've come to the conclusion that there are just some things we'll have to accept like that it won't get better or remotely close to the story of the show/after the fall.
I can say this about Willinghams run:
-He has a story. Not a good one but after five issues neone reading can tell he has some sort of plan.
...at this point that's all he has other than he has credit for keeping angel going.
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Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Apr 28, 2010 18:48:10 GMT -5
This was just posted over at Whedonesque. I commented there (username is Zelikman, say hi and call me Zman and I may love you forever ) but I just want to say: if she's right about Spike, then I have a little more faith in what's going on. But this really just confuses me more because now we have the task of figuring out what's part of the story and what's just bad characterization. Hoping for the former for Illyria's baby-making story, because otherwise I've been OK with her development. (I have a whole mini-rant about Illyria post-#23 and Only Human, but ehhhhh I've got last-minute homework to finish and finals to study for. Maybe later.) (Also P.S. after I posted in this thread, my username went colorful from winning Member of the Month. Yay! Thanks CBG, and thanks to everyone here who listens to me drivel on about random things. <3)
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neowhobaz
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Post by neowhobaz on Apr 28, 2010 19:39:05 GMT -5
Congrats Hellbound.
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Post by winterdreamer on Apr 28, 2010 19:56:13 GMT -5
as usual I'm an issue behind, so I'll comment on the Angel/IDW editor response HH posted about. I have honestly very much enjoyed Willingham's run from the get-go.....I like the art a lot & yes, occasionaly the dialogue is a bit weird~but overall I've liked all the issues. The editor interview is great, hopefully people will let the Angel crew get the full story out before going ballistic. And of course, sad sad fan that I am, I'm eagerly waiting for where the Spike story is going. (and honestly, I kinda figured his boorish recent behavior was some manner of fallout) As to Willingham 'making the characters his own'....to a point, he has to, its the only way to write. I cant even imagine how difficult it must be to be handed a cast as well known & loved as the Angel gang and told to have-at. He must know that everything he writes, every scrap of dialogue is going to be scrutinized & everything people dislike will be imediatley smoked with the big old 'not-canon' hammer. He has to try to keep the characters moving forward, while attempting to remain faithful, develop the new faces & tie everything into a plausible storyline without vastly contradicting other previous works...and do it while a good portion of the fanbase rages about the result. Guy has stones of steel for even attempting it in my opinion. That said, sure I've questioned some of the arc, but overall I think Willingham is putting out a fun and entertaining comic. (and no, I couldnt give a crap if its 'not canon'....I tend to read it for the enjoyment.) I cant help but think that, to a certain degree, the whole 'willingham ire' has snowballed into the fanbase slamming everything he does 'just cause'. BtVS season 8 doesnt get half the flak (most likely because its 'canon') and I think its jumped the shark waaaaaay more than the Angel saga has. I'm sure this kind of reaction has greeted every new era of the franchise (I've heard about a bit of it)....I guess as a newish fan to the whole buffyverse I was just baffled by the 'he can do no right' attitude the recent comics have engendered. Ok, now honestly, did anyone actually read that ramble?
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Post by wenxina on Apr 28, 2010 20:25:42 GMT -5
I dropped the ANGEL franchise a while back. Right after the Drusilla two-parter. I've been following the series from afar, just reading comments/synopses/reviews/etc. I understand that sometimes, characters have to do very uncomfortable things. We saw it in S6 of BtVS. We're seeing it now in the S8 storyline (or at least, it's uncomfortable for some, for various reasons). BUT... where Willingham is failing for me, is not merely the situations in which he's putting some of the characters, but rather, his inability to actually capture the voices (at least from the previews). If Spike's acting like a douche, but actually sounding/acting like Spike, I'd be more willing to cut Willingham some slack. But, IMO, he isn't acting/sounding like Spike. Or the constant verbal diarrhea that seems to plague some of the characters. A lot of the wit of the Buffyverse lay in the nonverbal moments, and that's more challenging to capture in this medium, but it shouldn't be compensated for with excessive wall-o'-texts. But hey... no skin off my nose. Some people are enjoying the current arc. Some aren't.
As for the current climate of the comic realm... the fan ire isn't exclusively directed at the ANGEL franchise. There are plenty of people who hate S8, and even more who have jumped the bandwagon in light of recent events. All for various reasons, but there it is. Some fans of the Buffyverse have called S8 Joss' personal "crack fic". And even Brian Lynch's vastly celebrated "AtF" run has met criticism, either during its run, or in retrospect. The thing about fandoms is, they're opinionated, and they know what they want. Regardless of quality, there are just certain things that fans DON'T want to see. Like Wash dying in Serenity. Oh wait... spoiler alert. I respect the creative staff's right to tell their stories. And I respect the fandom's right to either like, or dislike the story.
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neowhobaz
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Post by neowhobaz on Apr 28, 2010 20:38:24 GMT -5
I am kinda curious, what does everyone who read this issue think about the whole gunn/Connor thing? I'm really gonna be sad if he writes out gunn.
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Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Apr 29, 2010 0:31:42 GMT -5
I am kinda curious, what does everyone who read this issue think about the whole gunn/Connor thing? I'm really gonna be sad if he writes out gunn. Other than the bad dialogue? It has potential for good payoff later. But in retrospect, it may be a radical change from what we've seen before. Lots of people seem to struggle with Gunn, both in the material itself and in fanfics. I never understand why. He always seems to play like a Cordelia or a Jayne, but his best moments are his moral "mentorship" with Angel. Think about the ending of That Old Gang of Mine: Angel warning Gunn that part of being on the team is knowing that, at the drop of a hat, you have to be willing to stake him should he go back to Angelus. It's brought up again during S4's Angelus arc, and again in S5's Underneath. Gunn screws up a lot, but he's fiercely loyal to the good fight, and that's why he works so well in Team Angel. So this temper tantrum feels... off. It could be, as I said, payoff for something later, or it could just be more character leverage for Connor (does he really need more of that in Willingham's arc alone, though?). But it all comes back to my basic feelings about Gunn in Willingham's arc: it's only hurting the character to ignore the progress made in Only Human. He's been through a helluva lot, pun totally intended, so when's he gonna really start showing it? /me bows And next week, we discuss the bipolar characteristics of Willingham's Illyria! ...Maybe. (By the way, Illyria is also hurting from a lack of Only Human inclusion.)
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Ethros
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Post by Ethros on Apr 29, 2010 5:16:49 GMT -5
I gave up Aftermath after two issues as I thought it was terrible. And I gave up on the Willingham arc after two issues as I thought it was pretty lame. After reading some of the reviews and descriptions for the following issues I'm beyond glad I did, because it sounds frakking awful!
Seriously, what are IDW doing? Can they not actually find writers who oh I don't know, might have actually seen an episode of Angel at least once? Just awful stuff. I had thought about waiting and getting the TPB of this, but there's no way I'm wasting money on this garbage anymore.
After The Fall- brilliant. Everything else- doesn't exist
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neowhobaz
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Post by neowhobaz on Apr 29, 2010 7:29:46 GMT -5
I am kinda curious, what does everyone who read this issue think about the whole gunn/Connor thing? I'm really gonna be sad if he writes out gunn. Other than the bad dialogue? It has potential for good payoff later. But in retrospect, it may be a radical change from what we've seen before. Lots of people seem to struggle with Gunn, both in the material itself and in fanfics. I never understand why. He always seems to play like a Cordelia or a Jayne, but his best moments are his moral "mentorship" with Angel. Think about the ending of That Old Gang of Mine: Angel warning Gunn that part of being on the team is knowing that, at the drop of a hat, you have to be willing to stake him should he go back to Angelus. It's brought up again during S4's Angelus arc, and again in S5's Underneath. Gunn screws up a lot, but he's fiercely loyal to the good fight, and that's why he works so well in Team Angel. So this temper tantrum feels... off. It could be, as I said, payoff for something later, or it could just be more character leverage for Connor (does he really need more of that in Willingham's arc alone, though?). But it all comes back to my basic feelings about Gunn in Willingham's arc: it's only hurting the character to ignore the progress made in Only Human. He's been through a helluva lot, pun totally intended, so when's he gonna really start showing it? /me bows And next week, we discuss the bipolar characteristics of Willingham's Illyria! ...Maybe. (By the way, Illyria is also hurting from a lack of Only Human inclusion.) I echo this completely. It's as if Only human never happened when looking at this arc which is sad because Scott lobdell did a hell of a job dealing with Gunn and Illyria's character development post ATF. More than that Willingham has gone in the complete opposite direction. In Only Human and issue 23 we're clear Gunn has remorse for what happened. In this he seems to write off the events of Hell A as not happening so hes not responsible.wow
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BlueJay
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Post by BlueJay on Apr 29, 2010 16:00:39 GMT -5
I actually enjoyed Only Human more than Aftermath and Immortality for Dummies put together. Too bad Only Human isn't part of the main title, although it SHOULD have been. I'm still pissed there's no hardcover version of it.
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neowhobaz
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Post by neowhobaz on Apr 29, 2010 18:16:16 GMT -5
right there with you jay. I have the tpb for it but it feels so out of place with all the other hc's. I did like the art gallery though.
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