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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 6, 2010 19:57:19 GMT -5
Yes, there are some continuity issues here that are going to make my head hurt if I think about them too much.
In season 8 we're clearly shown that Spike didn't find out about the anti-Slayer paranoia (and Harmony's TV show) until he arrived in London, having already acquired his ship and bug crew... but here he's learning about both long before that.
Maybe when Willow arrives she'll mess with the timeline, or something...
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zamolxis
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 210
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Post by zamolxis on Nov 6, 2010 23:02:52 GMT -5
How much time had been passed between Harmony's first show (and kill of a slayer) and the media movement to Buffy Summers is a terrorist? It's seems (to me) that the story is placed in this period.
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leyki
Common Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 90
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Post by leyki on Nov 7, 2010 4:22:08 GMT -5
First Angel became Twilight, and wayyyyyy after this paranoia with the slayers and the vampires started. But Spike has just arrived in Vegas, that means that he has just left Angel back in LA, so unless there is a very good explanation why the heck Spike hasn't realized that Angel has been Twilight for quite some time now, i really won't consider this story canon.... Maybe only the explanation of how Spike got the space-ship, and even that depends on how and what will tell us, but certainly the rest of the story is just so wrong....
My thinking is that IDW first decided to publish a Spike series, and when DH gained the titles back, they talked about it and decided to somehow join the stories a little bit....but the planning, at least for the first issues had already been made and they haven't changed it.
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zamolxis
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 210
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Post by zamolxis on Nov 7, 2010 4:45:44 GMT -5
Before he became Twilight, Angel left LA destroyed. I don't remember any mentions about that. Wherever Angel came from time went wonky (it seems that this is what the last arc will be about - the last IDW Angel arc)
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leyki
Common Vampire
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Posts: 90
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Post by leyki on Nov 7, 2010 5:03:01 GMT -5
Before he became Twilight, Angel left LA destroyed. I don't remember any mentions about that. Wherever Angel came from time went wonky (it seems that this is what the last arc will be about - the last IDW Angel arc) One more mistake, why doesn't Spike say something about LA being destroyed? That means that LA ISN'T DESTROYED yet, so Angel is NOT Twilight yet. So, Twangel hasn't gathered everyone against Buffy, but we see now in issue 2, that the paranoia against the slayers not only has already started, but it's on the pick as well. My guess is that the mistakes will just keep on coming more and more in every issue.... Maybe it will be a good story to read, but certainly not a canon one....
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zamolxis
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 210
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Post by zamolxis on Nov 7, 2010 5:26:08 GMT -5
One more mistake, why doesn't Spike say something about LA being destroyed? Spike left for Vegas and LA is still intact. Starting with the new arc, Angel has some marvelous adventures time travel - or alternate dimension W&H related that will lead to LA being destroyed. At the end he's projected in the Hollywood sign where he sees LA intact. It's not clear how much time passed since Angel came back, put his mask on, chased the slayers and Harmony had her show. I don't know, it's comicbook time. The series weren't supposed to intersect. It's nice they try to fit an eight issue story within the four years long S8.
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Shane
Potential Slayer
I saw a baby today.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 135
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Post by Shane on Nov 8, 2010 15:15:06 GMT -5
Okay, Betta George is starting to sound a bit corny now. Not as much as me but still, corny.
Liked Beck lighting up the magazine/show/ticket thingy. Now they seem like a nice, normal, bickering family. Perfect!
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Nov 10, 2010 16:04:32 GMT -5
woohoo got my hands on this and it was an awsome issue. Had some groo, some W&H, some jeremy. Really loving this Spike series.
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Post by thevampirewithsoul on Nov 12, 2010 2:12:26 GMT -5
Great issue. It was nice to see Jeremy again. And this John guy seems like an interesting villain for Spike.
Favorite thing that Spike said in this issue: "We need to fill the bathtub so George has a place to sleep."
I give this issue a 8 out of 10.
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Ethros
Novice Witch
I beat the bad guys[Mo0:0]
Posts: 291
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Post by Ethros on Nov 12, 2010 13:31:33 GMT -5
It was an ok issue. What was with the shifiting artists? It really put me off when reading it
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Nov 12, 2010 14:37:39 GMT -5
This issue was a big disappointment after last issue. My strongest feeling after reading it was "Ew... fill-in art." It's sad that on the second issue, Urru is already failing to meet deadlines and the art is changing between pages. The fill-in art was really mediocre and made the book feel cheap and unprofessional. I mean, say what you like about Season Eight, but art-wise it's always been very consistant and well-organised. Last minute fill-in art ruined After the Fall for me, so I hope this series doesn't go the same route. The writing was also disappointing to me. I like Jeremy's role as an avatar for W&H but I didn't understand what was happening for most of the issue. John's introduction was a bit confusing. I was excited to see Groo and Cordelia though, even if I saw them coming. I also like that they're making a real point of Spike being his own hero, and not part of AI. I expected a lot more from this series than what we're getting. It's only 8 issues and has been in the plotting stages for over a year, so it should be a lot tighter than this. I really hope they pull the art together in time for Willow's appearance, I'm looking forward to Urru's interpretation of her.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 15, 2010 15:43:33 GMT -5
I liked the issue. I kind of hope we get some closure on Wolfram & Hart by the time this series is over. Maybe some explanation of why they don't seem to be involved with the season 8 apocalypse... which I'd think they certainly would be, if they were still functional by then.
I agree that changing artists in the middle of an issue is something that should never be done, unless the main artist is going to be out of commission long-term. It's better for a book to be late than to look like it's being drawn by whomever happens to be handy.
I notice they corrected the typos we pointed out. They also changed the t-shirt on the kid who's running through the Cirque de No Slay gift shop... I guess they found out that "Save the cheerleader, save the world" is trademarked. Though showing an 8-year-old kid wearing a shirt that says "Laid Not Slayed" is creepy in a way that has nothing to do with vampires.
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Post by Emmie on Nov 17, 2010 0:12:14 GMT -5
Getting closure on W&H would be bad, imo. W&H is symbolic of the evil in humanity. Just like Buffy can't kill the dark inside her, W&H and the Senior Partners are forever. To defeat W&H is to eradicate the potential for evil in humanity. I think that'd be a poor choice. But then I could see IDW doing it since they don't seem to cotton to metaphor.
I didn't like this issue. I agree with Paul. I could say more, but I don't want to rehash all the negative.
This story is basically a fun lark. If you're looking for a fun lark, I guess it might work for you. I had higher expectations and these first two issues failed to meet them pretty resoundingly.
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
Claimer of Funn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,174
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Post by jellymoff on Nov 17, 2010 9:04:23 GMT -5
I have faith that things will start to fall into place soon. I agree that after this issue I feel a little bit dissatisfied, but I can see how what happened in this issue can eventually lead to a more impactful story.
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Post by wenxina on Nov 21, 2010 21:47:15 GMT -5
Ugh... just ugh. Did not enjoy this issue at all. Spike's diction was all over the place, the art was all over the place, the story was all over the place. The introduction of John was shoddy, and I'm still fuzzy as to what happened there. It wasn't nearly as bad as the Jurassic Park book I got at the same time, but that's really not a standard for quality as far as I'm concerned.
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beeemkcl
Common Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 50
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Post by beeemkcl on Dec 4, 2010 19:41:59 GMT -5
Spike #2:
Beck’s already gone? What a waste. It already doesn’t make any sense why Spike would abandon his power base of Spider and Co. But now already Beck’s out of the picture? Beck’s someone who could easily be a better vampire slayer than Buffy, Spike, Angel, etc. In this issue she states she can burn down the entire Wolfram and Hart building. With Beck in “Chosen” (7.22), they wouldn’t need an amulet and a bunch of Slayers.
John seems simply to want to get rid of Spike so that he can be with Drusilla without competition. Sounds like what Angel was trying to do in Season 8 to be with Buffy. He’s so far not interesting.
A good portion of the comic is wasted on a casino show that shouldn’t exist.
Overall, underwhelming. And why is Spike so desperate to prove himself as a leader? It’s as if Brian Lynch simply forgot that this is the guy who took out the Order of Aurielus, got the Judge together, found the Gem of Amarra, was the hero of Hell-LA who ruled over Illyria and Spider and Co. etc. And now he doesn’t know how to approach things?
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Dec 5, 2010 10:36:18 GMT -5
Why do you think Beck is out of the picture?
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on Dec 6, 2010 3:43:55 GMT -5
And why is Spike so desperate to prove himself as a leader? It’s as if Brian Lynch simply forgot that this is the guy who took out the Order of Aurielus, got the Judge together, found the Gem of Amarra, was the hero of Hell-LA who ruled over Illyria and Spider and Co. etc. And now he doesn’t know how to approach things? Probably cuz no one else has ever really taken Spike seriously as a leader, all making a mockery of him
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Shane
Potential Slayer
I saw a baby today.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 135
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Post by Shane on Dec 7, 2010 6:14:34 GMT -5
I liked this issue too. Maybe because I already knew the reason for the fill-in art. And I can't concentrate well anyway so the inconsistency in Spike's voice (e.g. "frightfully") escaped me on the first read. I guess I'm lucky that way. And I'm really digging the mystery aspect of this series. Unlike Season 8, it seems to be unfolding very gradually. (I wish they'd stop pointing that out though.) Overall, the jokes were good but not great. For example Beck lighting up the ticket thing and Betta George explaining Spike's "long story" - it was both fun and funny - so I want more of those. But others seemed a bit superfluous e.g. Spike explaining why it's funny that he's Betta George in a bowl - this one seemed off on my first read so I went back to find out what was different. John seems to be a really interesting villain. I kinda want him to team up with Spike against this human threat Jeremy talked about. And hopefully Drusilla can join them. Then they can all have a fight and Drusilla can kill John to save Spike. I'm also feeling kinda nostalgic now that Urru is taking time off. And when I get nostalgic, I get dorky: Lynch + Urru = awesomeness to the MAX! = Spike #2 (hey, my proof my rules!) = Lynch + Urru (see above) = LHS QED!Heehee, I said "QED". *Looks around, gets stares* I have my own fun!
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beeemkcl
Common Vampire
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Posts: 50
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Post by beeemkcl on Dec 7, 2010 22:57:17 GMT -5
Spike just left Beck there while he goes in another dimension or wherever he went.
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In Season 2, when Spike was in charge he ran a tighter ship than the Master did. Spike as leader gets stuff accomplished.
In After the Fall , Spike was running the flagship area of Los Angeles and saving a lot of lives.
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The bizarre thing is Spike abandoning Illyria and Spider and Co. In the finance world, that'd be like deciding to instead of leading Goldman Sachs you go off on your own and run a little little company that you founded.
Spike had the power and he was allied with Connor. Add in Beck to the mix and he's the undisputed leader of Los Angeles. Only Buffy would later run a superior organization in Season 8.
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