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Post by lightandmagic on Aug 20, 2010 21:13:10 GMT -5
Didn't like reading the articles. This isn't a heroic effort to bring unity to the 'verse - that could have happened easily between the two companies - it's just Dark Horse getting back custody of their lesser child (for better or worse). All of my favourite comics came from IDW, so it's a shame to see that end. Everything tied into eachother is a double-edged sword. Season 8 sucks balls, it's out of my mind now and if everything ties to that...then I'm out as far as comics go. Agreed sir. I don't read the comics, I read until Wolves at the Gate, and thoroughly despised it, and so now I just read summaries online and am pretty much ALWAYS glad I didn't buy it. My one big consolation is that AtF will probably have to be mentioned and tie better into the canon, and I absolutely loved AtF. On the brightside, even if Season 8 is absolutely awful (I'm still hoping there will be some crazy redeeming event in these last couple of comics [and by redeeming event, I mean the comic pulls a Dallas and says that Buffy had the weirdest dream]) the fact that Cordelia, Illyria, Spike, Gunn etc. can be used easily within the Buffyverse with the regular cast is pretty damn cool and has crazy amounts of story potential. And hopefully Joss will come up with a much better plot line than destiny sex in the next season and better integrate both Buffy and Angel characters.
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Post by wenxina on Aug 20, 2010 22:29:59 GMT -5
Buffyfest's interview with Chris Ryall and Mariah Huehner about the move HERE.
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Post by The Girl In Question on Aug 20, 2010 22:35:36 GMT -5
I just hope this means all of the crossovers I've dreamed of will now happen.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Aug 20, 2010 23:14:32 GMT -5
Buffyfest's interview with Chris Ryall and Mariah Huehner about the move HERE. They sounds so nice and funny and incredibly diplomatic. I wonder how pissed and disapointed they actually are. Seems like they didn't expect this at all. I don't know if I should be mad or happy with Joss. Happy that he once again takes a interest in Ats and will work with IDW, but mad that he's taking it from IDW. Like a kid giving another kid a toy, but later taking it back since it was originally his.
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Post by riker on Aug 21, 2010 9:13:54 GMT -5
I don't know how pissed IDW can be. They are dealing with licensed comics after all, so losing Angel to Dark Horse is something that must've crossed their mind. Fortunately, IDW has a lot of good licenses, like Doctor Who and True Blood, so they should think about the positive.
Hopefully Brian Lynch will write something for Season Nine, maybe the Angel series, an arc of Buffy, or a miniseries or two.
I'm hoping they pair Dawn and Connor romantically---this is something I've wanted for years!
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Post by VampSlayer on Aug 21, 2010 9:23:37 GMT -5
I just hope they are able to keep a line in between 'Angel' and 'Buffy'. From what it sounds like, they're just bringing 'Angel' back because S9. 'Angel' should be its own story, and own concept, not involved too heavily with 'Buffy S9'. Sure, an occasional crossover, like on the shows, but nothing too major. I'd hate to see the 'Angel' title used as a supporting thread in S9.
It will be interesting to see Angel's Twilight outcome, but that's really all that should be connected to S8/9, IMHO. Focus more on his own gang, and their stories. Not feeding off of 'Buffy'.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 21, 2010 9:55:07 GMT -5
I'm sure the fact that IDW has the contract for the True Blood comics softened the blow quite a bit. It's a show with a dedicated cult following, is still on the air, and doesn't have years and years of continuity issues to deal with.
Keeping the Angel franchise might have actually diluted their audience by having two vampire series going at the same time.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Aug 21, 2010 10:53:49 GMT -5
I just hope this means all of the crossovers I've dreamed of will now happen. Tell me about it, I'm really hoping for the Buffyverse equivalent of "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End" (epic Doctor Who/ Torchwood/ Sarah Jane crossover and two of the most thrilling hours of my life). Honestly Season Eight, just f***ing end already so we can get to Season Nine. I'm sure the fact that IDW has the contract for the True Blood comics softened the blow quite a bit. It's a show with a dedicated cult following, is still on the air, and doesn't have years and years of continuity issues to deal with. Keeping the Angel franchise might have actually diluted their audience by having two vampire series going at the same time. Pretty sure the True Blood comics are official canon as well, since the show's creator was involved in plotting them. So good luck to IDW, you've still got the hotness that is Bill Compton to keep you warm at night.
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Post by parabola on Aug 21, 2010 12:53:35 GMT -5
I just hope this means all of the crossovers I've dreamed of will now happen. I think this is the kind of thing we'll see. I could certainly envision 'Buffy' and 'Angel' centric books, and perhaps even 'Spike'. They'll all be running concurrently, sometimes overlapping on major events, other times having characters move freely between the titles as needed for the story. Just like how the comics freed them from the budget realities of TV, they can also move the 'verse's characters around wherever they want and not worry about pesky things like scheduling actors ... and this is much easier to do with all the 'Angel' characters back in the fold. Marketing will be a whole other consideration. In the superhero worlds of other publishers, picking up numerous inter-related titles is common place. With Buffy & Angel, as with other licensed properties, you have a lot of non-traditional comic readers. There were always Buffy & Angel comics available before, to those who sought them out. But really they were just merchandise and not given much thought by the majority of the shows' viewers. Slap Joss Whedon's name and "Season 8" onto it, and you have an easy hook and can generate the publicity to let those TV fans know about it. Then in late 2011, it may not be obvious to a casual reader that the 'Buffy' and 'Angel' comics they see are both part of a larger story. What's going to be the best way to get that message across? Well, we may see a main book called "Buffy: Season 9" -- the anchor title with the most recognition. Then perhaps "Buffy: Season 9: Angel" ... at the risk of annoying us fans who see Angel as worthy of his own saga; or worse, implying that Angel is merely around to serve the greater Buffy story. That may not be the way the creators see it, but sometimes marketing trumps in order to get the books to appeal to the biggest audiences.
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Post by drgreenevil on Aug 22, 2010 0:14:28 GMT -5
On another message board, some one is saying that Scott Allie himself said that IDW's Angel would not be cannon, in fact considered non-cannon.
Is this true and if so, can I have the link to where Scott Allie said this?
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 22, 2010 1:19:50 GMT -5
On another message board, some one is saying that Scott Allie himself said that IDW's Angel would not be cannon, in fact considered non-cannon. Is this true and if so, can I have the link to where Scott Allie said this? An employee of Dark Horse posted a response on Facebook stating that everything IDW has done with Angel wasn't canon. The comment has since been removed and Scott said it in no way reflected his or Dark Horse's point of view.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Aug 22, 2010 1:23:57 GMT -5
^^ Not that his or Dark horse's point of view really matters, but I'm glad that got removed. They would seem pretty ignorant if they said that, cosnidering that Joss said that After the fall is canon (which is what matters).
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Post by Whedon Fan on Aug 22, 2010 5:20:56 GMT -5
I'd say After the fall is definatley canon everything else after that is debatable based really upon the lack of involvment from Joss or input from anyone else remotley connected to the verse. Some of the writers probably don't even know the jist of the show other than whats been happening in the comics so far. . .suppose if its a good read then thats what matters to some people. I gave up half way through aftermath and just stuck with Season 8. Will be picking up Brian's Spike series though.
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Post by riker on Aug 22, 2010 9:53:44 GMT -5
Agreed. AtF is canon because of Joss' involvement, but everything else has a big question mark.
As far as I'm concerned, Aftermath is not canon because it was just so, so awful. Therefore, that renders Bill Willingham's run not canon because he features a couple characters from Aftermath.
The only post-AtF stuff I consider canon are the five Brian Lynch issues that ran from 23-27. Brian Lynch=canon, imo...
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Post by Paul on Aug 22, 2010 11:23:50 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, Aftermath is not canon because it was just so, so awful. Therefore, that renders Bill Willingham's run not canon because he features a couple characters from Aftermath. IMO, the mediocre-but-harmless Aftermath is nothing compared to the soul-crushingly awful characterisation and dialogue of Willingham's run. As for your canon logic regarding characters, what if James or Eddie Hope appear in Spike or Season Nine? Does that make those stories non-canon, because they feature a non-canon character? If Spike: Asylum is non-canon, does that make AtF non-canon because it features George and Beck? The way I see it is: After the Fall is explicitly canon, Lynch's other work is more-or-less canon, and everything else is non-canon but in-continuity. Something had to have happened between AtF and S8 and the other IDW comics are just optional gap-fillers.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 22, 2010 14:08:45 GMT -5
As for your canon logic regarding characters, what if James or Eddie Hope appear in Spike or Season Nine? Does that make those stories non-canon, because they feature a non-canon character? If Spike: Asylum is non-canon, does that make AtF non-canon because it features George and Beck? Including canon characters doesn't make a story canon. Otherwise, every Buffy story, including fanfic, would have to be called canon. Now, the Betta George/Asylum question is a special case, because the canonical AtF seems to make direct references to the events of Asylum. You could argue that the events of Asylum are the reason why George shows up in AtF at all. If we have characters or events from the post-Joss IDW series turning up in season 9, it will be an interesting (and probably frustrating) situation. But I stick with the Golden Rule of Jossverse canon: Joss is the source of all canon. He can accept the work of others as canon, but he cannot have canon imposed on him.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Aug 22, 2010 14:18:10 GMT -5
Andrew, I don't think that's what Paul meant. He was talking about how including non-canon characters into a story doesn't make a story non-canon. Unless I'm the one who misunderstood.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 22, 2010 16:05:22 GMT -5
Andrew, I don't think that's what Paul meant. He was talking about how including non-canon characters into a story doesn't make a story non-canon. Unless I'm the one who misunderstood. Yeah, time to simplify the whole thing. Fire bad, tree pretty. Joss canon, No Joss no canon.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Aug 22, 2010 16:11:32 GMT -5
I'm not even sure if you disagreed with me there or not You confuse. Me feel stupid. You use more word.
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Post by riker on Aug 22, 2010 17:06:50 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, Aftermath is not canon because it was just so, so awful. Therefore, that renders Bill Willingham's run not canon because he features a couple characters from Aftermath. IMO, the mediocre-but-harmless Aftermath is nothing compared to the soul-crushingly awful characterisation and dialogue of Willingham's run. As for your canon logic regarding characters, what if James or Eddie Hope appear in Spike or Season Nine? Does that make those stories non-canon, because they feature a non-canon character? If Spike: Asylum is non-canon, does that make AtF non-canon because it features George and Beck? The way I see it is: After the Fall is explicitly canon, Lynch's other work is more-or-less canon, and everything else is non-canon but in-continuity. Something had to have happened between AtF and S8 and the other IDW comics are just optional gap-fillers. Betta George appeared in something prior to the canonical After the Fall (was it Spike: Asylum?), but that doesn't necessarily make his pre-AtF appearances canon. As far as I'm concerned, only his After the Fall appearances are canon.
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