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Post by wenxina on Dec 9, 2010 17:39:08 GMT -5
e never been an advocate of the "Willow is a goddess" position... I don't see her with that level of power, even in season 8, and even with the relatively low bar on "god" status in the Buffyverse. (I mean, Olaf was a god? Olaf?) And I don't see why or how she would have become one... what makes her better than all the other women who studied magic real hard? She's only been using magic for six seasons... she wouldn't even be through Hogwarts yet for another year. I wasn't an advocate for it before S8. Like when Kennedy said "You're a goddess" in "Chosen"... yeah, I took that one figuratively. And I'm not even so sure that I'd bother making the argument that that very instance was when it happened. Not important to me. But Willow's mortality has been brought up several times now, and if it's going to come out eventually that she's ascended the metaphysical ladder as well, then I'll say that it's been foreshadowed since "TLWH". As I said, it would explain her immortality. As for why Willow's special... well, that was always Amy's contention, and point of envy. Because hey, Willow is special. Tara said so too. And even Aluwyn thought so. While others have to work hard at being half as good (e.g. Amy and Tara), Willow's use and understanding of magic was always shown to be intuitive. Even as a novice, she could take spells and adapt them (e.g. the Tinkerbell spell). Willow's thirst for knowledge and her willingness to push her own boundaries is what makes her unique.
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Dorotea
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Post by Dorotea on Dec 9, 2010 17:41:40 GMT -5
And I hope something happens to pre-empt Willow's apparent fate in ToYL. Not just because I don't want to see such a sad end for Willow, but because I don't like knowing what's going to happen to characters before they happen. To me, it detracts from the story. But you don't . You speculate, you hope, you expect something to change - and then it does - or it does not. And also what's important is to cover all the bases - somebody had to put that monkey into a box in a room with a scythe symbol, somebody had to alter the history books , etc. Was it Willow ? Was it somebody else? Why did she/they care to prepare ? It is complicated and it is still interesting.
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beeemkcl
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Post by beeemkcl on Dec 9, 2010 23:32:13 GMT -5
Buffy #39 Slayalive.
Should the empowerment spell have been done? It helped save the world, so, of course it should have. And, yes, a lot of death happened in Season 8. But how many deaths happened in the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, World War I, World War II, etc.
Is Fray going to happen? There’s a great reason it will. Joss Whedon owns all the characters. Why would Joss actively try to destroy a successful ‘franchise’ that he completely owns? After The Avengers and that fail of a Buffy movie, Joss could put out a Fray movie. Or at least he has it in his pocket.
Is the Fray future so horrible? With the way things are going in the real world, put on top of that all the stuff that goes on in the Buffyverse and the Frayverse doesn’t seem so apocalyptic or bad. And Fray’s in NYC, which would be even more crowded in 2200 than it is now. There hadn’t needed to be a Slayer in 200 years. And humanity and society survived and is going on.
Is there an ‘emotional stasis’ because of Buffy/Angel? Buffy was fantasizing about making out with and having sex with Spike perhaps less than an hour after all the sex and lovy dovey stuff with Angel (all of which was at least partly influenced by Twilight or whatever). Buffy’s not ruined for any other man but Angel. And unless everything Angel’s done in Season 8 is made to be not his fault, any further relationship between the two would be sick.
Using Faith to sell an Angel comic : How about Faith gets her own comic and Angel is deservedly killed off?
Angel is Angelus with the Gypsy curse and the over 100 years of having that curse. For me, if people think that ‘Angel’ is Liam or something, I’d almost like them to refer to ‘Angel’ as ‘Liam’. But given that ‘Angel’ can so easily ‘act’ like Angelus (as in “Enemies” (3.17?)) and when given a happy pill reverts back to his Angelus personality (as in “Eternity” (A 1.17?)), it’s only the curse and all the guilt that anguish and whatever else that makes ‘Angelus’ act like ‘Angel’. And this really makes sense why AngelTwilight could so easily want Buffy to stay with him in Twilight and let the whole world be destroyed. He’s happy again thus pretty much reverting back to ‘Angelus’. And this makes sense why he’d happily let he whole world be destroyed just so he could be happy. The only problem is this ‘Angelus’ apparently may not have lasted long. He’s not happy that Buffy wants to leave and he does leave with Buffy and help her kill bad things. Maybe the Twilight influence or power helped to so quickly remove the happiness?
The ripping in half, burning, and electrocuting of Slayers: This was a huge battle and casualties needed to happen. And in war, the principals or those deemed more important or who are liked more generally get preference to random soldiers.
Willow in Season 9 trying to get her powers back: It was bad enough in Season 8 she so freaked out over losing her powers and was so ecstatic about getting them back. Including literally bad as she happily risks the entire world just to try to keep her powers. Her doing so in Season 9 won’t be much better.
What Fray’s ‘Watcher’ tells her is not necessarily true and therefore not necessarily canon. The guy was supposed to get her to lead the humans to end an apocalypse or whatever, and then kill her after she succeeded. Not exactly a trustworthy source.
Spike has his own comic for Season 9 and shouldn’t be used to prop up Angel’s comic.
Destroying the Seed : The way Spike explains it, magic and stuff already here are not sustained or whatever by the Seed. And that Twilight taking the Seed with him would destroy the world. Who knows, I’m not sure that they fully thought about the Seed. It seems to be just used as a plot device.
Why Angel rallied all those people : Apparently it was all to lead Buffy to getting her powers, which in itself made little sense. Angel was just given powers. So, really, it was all about bringing Buffy to a point that she’d have sex with Angel. Which apparently also required some kind of love drug. And all of this wasn’t enough to keep Buffy in Twilight so Angel and Twilight didn’t do enough. And through all of this killing hundreds of Slayers and getting Buffy on the run seemed fine but not killing anyone Buffy actually cares about.
And by the way, all that stuff about keeping causalities low and somehow actually trying to help Buffy out seems all like crap. They guy recruited Amy and Warren who did unnecessary damage. Twilight did things like the Swell. But apparently everything was to get Buffy to an emotional place that she’d sleep with Angel. So…
Wouldn’t it have made more sense to have Angel be good and just give Buffy powers as well and together they take out the demons in the world and then have sex, go to Twilight, and Angel just lies about the Earth being destroyed if they stayed? Buffy with a world rid of demons would much more likely stay with Angel than if Angel did a lot of evil and her friends are in immediate danger of being killed.
Was Whistler used by Twilight? Who knows.
Voll does not equal the US Military or US Government He’s one of the few officers who worked for Twilight. And despite negative media press coverage, we never saw a US announcement that there was now a “War on Slayers” or Buffy being listed in the FBI’s Most Wanted list.
Should Angel not be killed simply because there was Angel and IDW did comics with him? Angel only survived because of Buffy and After the Fall only had sales because it was labeled canon by Joss Whedon. Angel shouldn’t be able to do a ton of evil without any real consequences simply because his franchise can get some sales. Angel’s too much of a danger to the world to objectively be kept alive. And Buffy and Co. may not even know about Jasmine, which was another apocalyptic thing made directly possible because of Angel.
If Buffy ‘can’t’ kill Angel, that doesn’t mean that others can’t. What’s disturbing to me is them pretty much only keeping Angel alive for the Buffy/Angel thing and that he can help some people out. This guy has proven time-and-again to be a danger to the entire world. And Willow now has tried to destroy the world (“Grave” (6.22)) and risked the entire world (8.37), so she’s also getting to the point where we should question whether her continued living is a good thing for the world.
Was Angel trying to do good in Season 8? He just said yes to Whistler without consulting anyone. And we don’t have to believe what he tells Buffy right before he has sex with her. The guy’s lied to her before.
Fray never said that vampires left the world or died. Fray’s Watcher says that demons did. And he could have been lying to her in the first place.
We don’t know exactly what Whistler is : He seems a servant of the Powers That Be. But he also seems specific to Buffy/Angel. He had him want to help Buffy. Then he tries to get Buffy to a place that she could kill Angel. Where was he when Glory was around? Or Jasmine? Or when the First Evil was in Season 7? And in Season 8 he was trying to get Angel and Buffy back together. Really, just because he says he’s a balancing demon doesn’t mean he is.
And, shocking: Whistler could have been lying to Angel.
The vampire population exploding? One Slayer was all that was needed to keep the worldwide vampire population in check. If anything, one of the main things for the Slayer was that the powerful vampires would eventually be killed off. One of the negatives of Season 8 is that with 1800 Slayers all around the world, pretty much the vampire and demon populations should have been whittled down considerably. So, with no new demons coming, Buffy’s Slayer army should be able to wipe out demons on their own.
Frayverse not knowing about Slayers or vampires : We know of history through history books and the like. With things doing digital, simply servers and books would need to be destroyed for the future world to not know about Buffy and vampires.
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Post by VampSlayer on Dec 9, 2010 23:35:08 GMT -5
Just saw this, and I got sooo upset. The video itself is just very sad, but with what's just happened to Giles added on...
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Post by wenxina on Dec 10, 2010 0:45:38 GMT -5
My review finally finished and dolled up with pics. Read it HERE. Comments are always welcome on the blog or here, and if it sparks more discussion, yay.
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Jaz ♀♀
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Post by Jaz ♀♀ on Dec 10, 2010 3:15:00 GMT -5
"And in the irony also lies poetry. Just as Willow ripped Buffy from heaven, Buffy now rips magic away from Willow. What makes it an even more bitter pill to swallow is that it was Willow who basically set the first domino piece in motion: she brought Buffy back, apparently causing a disturbance in the Slayer line, allowing the First to act. In order to defeat the First’s army, Buffy decided to empower the Potentials with Willow’s help. Empowering the Potentials reset the status quo, and suddenly Buffy is the candidate for bringing about Twilight. She does so, and in order to stop it, she destroys the Seed, cutting off our world from magic, effectively cutting Willow off."
Wow....just wow, well written Xi. *karma*
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Post by wenxina on Dec 10, 2010 8:20:19 GMT -5
Thanks, Jaz. The symmetry of the narrative just jumped out at me as I was reading the issue. S8 may have been clumsily executed at times, but when it's done right, it's so good. Willow has much to be upset about right now, and we'll see what becomes of her friendship with Buffy, but in all fairness, she's done the same thing before, in a way.
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moscowwatcher
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Post by moscowwatcher on Dec 10, 2010 12:16:43 GMT -5
Great review, interesting food for thought. Do you mean the panel I attached? I think we're supposed to think that both hands are Buffy's. I think that Whistler's line "She needs to feel powerless in order to find the ultimale power" hints that all these deaths were a necessary condition for her ascension. Attachments:
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Dec 10, 2010 12:22:19 GMT -5
I think that Whistler's line "She needs to feel powerless in order to find the ultimale power" hints that all these deaths were a necessary condition for her ascension. But her ascension was a bad thing, right? Twilight couldn't have happened without it. So why was Whistler trying to push for it to come about? (For that matter, how was the Twilight Being, or whatever you want to call it, able to talk to Angel before Angel and Buffy "gave birth" to it? Was this a Jasmine type of deal, where the being in question exists already in some form but needs to be "born" in order to come into full power? If so, where did it come from originally? What is it?)
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richie
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Post by richie on Dec 10, 2010 12:31:46 GMT -5
beeemkcl -> i think youre right in say that if angel was just a good guy and give buffy power and then have sex to create twilight would be a lot easier... bu than again... where's the pain... this is joss.... the guy who let willow and tara be apart for the great part of a season just to kill her after... he likes us to be in pain... and we like it.... thats why... now... i see the greatiness of season 8.... if this was a book... not a comic... if we dindt spend 4 years trying to know the history, i think the season would be a lot better....
one think that im trying not to think about it is that angel is evil. why? spike fell in love with buffy, and even as a vampire he went to search for a soul to be with her.... he was a demon, just like angel... but he had some control of it.... angel dont.... everytime angelus comes in scene things get ugly... so why spike can control(in some way) the demon inside him, and angel doesnt???
and i think angel was trying to do some good... of course was the wroong way... but i think in his head he was just doing qhat he thought was the best...
VampSlayer -> are you just as sad as me cause giles's dead? i got it... but i spent more than 10 years with these characters say goodbye to one its hard....
wenxina -> the irony that you saw on willow and buffy... god... its poetic... the best friends causing each other the most pain they suffered so far.... i never had thought about that before.... good good thinkg... A+ for you.....
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Post by angeliclestat on Dec 10, 2010 12:39:18 GMT -5
I think that Whistler's line "She needs to feel powerless in order to find the ultimale power" hints that all these deaths were a necessary condition for her ascension. But her ascension was a bad thing, right? Twilight couldn't have happened without it. So why was Whistler trying to push for it to come about? (For that matter, how was the Twilight Being, or whatever you want to call it, able to talk to Angel before Angel and Buffy "gave birth" to it? Was this a Jasmine type of deal, where the being in question exists already in some form but needs to be "born" in order to come into full power? If so, where did it come from originally? What is it?) Oh the questions that have plagued the season. Would that they could be answered. I doubt they ever will be...
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Dorotea
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Post by Dorotea on Dec 10, 2010 12:49:25 GMT -5
Excellent review Xi. I enjoyed it very much and I thank you for speeding up your thought process and delivering this one that quickly. I absolutely agree with your explanation of what is happening to the Slayers - the Chain is broken and it was a nice call for the earlier arcs of the season - brilliant find, seriously. Clicks well with Meltzer's comment about Buffy being 'the first one to get out of the maze'. Sad too - probably meaning that the Slayers collective memories are no longer there - likely there will be no more prophetic dreams as well. I will miss that. And I can see that your explanation of Giles' last action actually works better than mine ( i.e. the sacrifice). The only problem there is that he had had full access to the Seed earlier - but I guess it only means that he never expected that the need to break the Seed would be so desperate or maybe he did not even guess it will solve the Twilight takeover attempt before it all clicked in his head in the last moments. Btw, I think Giles is carrying Dracula's sword when he is rallying the local demons. About Willow - yup - that is what I was thinking all along - it all hails back to the beginning of S6 and Willow bringing Buffy back thus setting in motion the events that eventually brought about the Slayer power sharing... ( but also strangely if you think about it - to S1 and Buffy being resurrected for the first time in that same place - bringing about the fulfillment of the first condition for Twilight prophecy - love indiscriminate. Maybe that's why they brought back Master ? To remind us that this all started after Buffy dodged death the first time and proceeded with events of the S2-S3? ) But her ascension was a bad thing, right? Twilight couldn't have happened without it. So why was Whistler trying to push for it to come about? Whistler has visions of the timelines dwindling and disappearing. The only logical explanation - assuming that he is not lying - is that the only future in which humanity survives is that of the broken Seed. And the only way that the Seed would be broken is to first bring about the Twilight. Mind that Whistler is our 'local' demon - and same as all other local demons he has no interest in his habitat being consumed by Twilight. He is also usually a messenger of our local PTB's. From what I was told by a 'reliable source' I surmise that Twilight is a rival Universe - or a ghost of one before it is born - that wanted to speed up the evolution of 'our' Universe so it can take over. The local Universe has no power over it ( ie Twilight) and no way of not playing by the 'universal rules', I assume because originally our own Universe had come into being the same way - i.e. by consuming the Seed in its turn. Why do Universes have pre-birth ghosts and require both Order and Chaos to exist - is anybody's guess.
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moscowwatcher
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Post by moscowwatcher on Dec 10, 2010 13:20:14 GMT -5
I think that Whistler's line "She needs to feel powerless in order to find the ultimale power" hints that all these deaths were a necessary condition for her ascension. But her ascension was a bad thing, right? Twilight couldn't have happened without it. So why was Whistler trying to push for it to come about? Maybe because the alternative was even worse? For example, Angel refuses to follow Twilight's plan; Twilight chooses Roden and Gigi; they give birth to Twilight and bring him(her?) the Seed. Nobody can beat them, because they're Gods. And Earth dies. (I don't insist that I'm right here; I only say that there is such option. I suspect that Joss will leave it open to interpretation). Oh, I wish I could say something deep and insightful about it - but, alas, I find it hard to grasp the idea of an unborn entity to orchestrate its own birth.
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Post by Nick Scarlett on Dec 10, 2010 14:24:23 GMT -5
beeemkcl, by "emotional stasis," what I really meant was Buffy's ability to love anyone other than Angel. I think it has been demonstrated that she desires other characters sexually, such as Riley, Spike and Satsu, but I think she's always held back her love, reserving it only for Angel, and in retrospect, every relationship she's had since has been doomed by Buffy's own belief that one day she and Angel will be together. After the events of Last Gleaming, will this still be the case, or will it now be possible for her to give up on the idealized romance of her youth and give her heart to someone else, such as Spike or Satsu? Maybe we'll find out in Season 9. After 13 years of story demonstrating the opposite, it would take quite a lot to make me belive she could fall in love with anyone other than Angel. Want to have sex with? Yes. Love? They'd have to work hard to sell it, at least for me.
As for Angel's motivation, I didn't really buy the "keep casualties low" explanation either. Maybe if we'd seen where Angel had been to an apocalyptic future where a Slayers & Witches vs. armies of the world war had happened, killing millions and resulting in nukes being used, we could have understood why he was trying to oppose the slayers and stop it (There wasn't anything like that, was there? I joined the story kinda late). Maybe some of us would have even argued that he was doing the right thing, even though it's the opposite of the argument he made to Jasmine. Or if a slayer had killed Connor, again, his motivation might have been more understandable. Unfortunately, it seems like he told the lion, "You had me at I have to have sex with Buffy."
Although much of this was the result of active choices he made, I don't support killing Angel, because I don't think he knowingly did evil. Also, Buffy was complicit in the creation of Twilight, even if it wasn't her body that Twilight possessed. I will be disappointed if Buffy puts all the blame on Angel, rather than acknowledging her own responsibility for all the deaths that were caused, including Giles's; however, she's done this before. There was plenty of blame to go around when Spuffy imploded, but Spike was willing to take all the blame publicly, and Buffy was more than happy to let him. The only character she ever told the truth to was that vampire in CwDP that she conveniently staked. Her own abusiveness in that relationship was never found out (not that anyone except maybe Dawn would have cared).
I'm hoping she doesn't try to let someone else take all the blame again. It might be more difficult, since Spuffy happened in secret, but this time everyone saw "Them F@%*ing."
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Post by wenxina on Dec 10, 2010 14:39:39 GMT -5
moscowwatcher: Yeah, that's the panel I was talking about. And I checked, as if I used both my hands to hold a pen, and there's no possibly way that those could both have been Buffy's hands. It would require two right hands. Also, it's a lot more weighted if she's picking up the Scythe from Giles' dead grasp, and finishing off what he had started. Dorotea: Giles may have had full access to the Seed in an earlier scene, but it was being guarded by the Master. Who was apparently fueled by the Seed, smacking Buffy down really easily. His only chance was when everyone was distracted. As for the Master, I think he was used because he's such an iconic figure in the mythos, AND because in terms of the TV show canon, he was Buffy's very first major foe. The one she faced when she truly wanted to just be a girl, but rose to the occasion anyway. In facing the Master, despite knowing that she would die, Buffy began her climb to her mythic status. It was really the beginning of her hero's journey. I'm sorry if I sound like I'm ignoring the movie that came before this, but other than a few references to her old life, the TV show largely ignored it, and I don't find it quite relevant to the point I'm making. (For that matter, how was the Twilight Being, or whatever you want to call it, able to talk to Angel before Angel and Buffy "gave birth" to it? Was this a Jasmine type of deal, where the being in question exists already in some form but needs to be "born" in order to come into full power? If so, where did it come from originally? What is it?) Because time isn't linear? At least according to Willow. Also, assuming that the universe is cognizant, is it necessarily different from the Twilight one? Removing the Seed dooms Earth. But another reality is waiting to take its place. According to the natural order of things, the old Earth dies so that the young one may live. Earth was deemed unsalvageable when Twilight was put into motion. The ascensions were the cosmic reward, to rise above the old and build a new world (hazy concept, really). But is the universe inherently different? Couldn't the Twilight entity be an aspect, a manifestation if you will, of a facet of the universe. The one that was born and then neglected?
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leyki
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Post by leyki on Dec 10, 2010 15:34:40 GMT -5
Maybe because the alternative was even worse? For example, Angel refuses to follow Twilight's plan; Twilight chooses Roden and Gigi; they give birth to Twilight and bring him(her?) the Seed. Nobody can beat them, because they're Gods. And Earth dies. (I don't insist that I'm right here; I only say that there is such option. I suspect that Joss will leave it open to interpretation). I will give you a better alternative, one that they know before that there is a seed in Sunnydale, and just go there and destroy it before any Twilight kitty or mouse chooses 2 persons to ascend. One way or another, Twilight plan was NOT the best option available, Angel was manipulated and fooled like a 4 years old child that is afraid Santa won't be visiting this year if it's naughty.
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Dorotea
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Post by Dorotea on Dec 10, 2010 15:42:27 GMT -5
Dorotea: Giles may have had full access to the Seed in an earlier scene, but it was being guarded by the Master. Who was apparently fueled by the Seed, smacking Buffy down really easily. His only chance was when everyone was distracted. Hmm, yes, and Willow was there later on - after she chained Master. I suppose she would not have taken it lightly if Giles suggested smacking the Seed. Still, Giles did not even try to tell anybody what he was thinking - disconnect and distrust ( rather than betrayal) as the main theme of the season again ? Well, maybe, but it is not enough for me, personally. There had to be something else. I am not saying Master was completely out of place but they put too much emphasis on his appearance - modified the cover with him, etc. I hope there will be something else in S9 that will at least reference his comeback. Time being none-linear in the Buffyverse is a nice call. Still, I did not get the vibe of Earth being judged by some over-powerful force and Twilight being given the green light. Rather I see Twilight as aggressive younger predator challenging the aging Queen-Earth simply because it can. Sort of like an alpha lion being challenged by a younger outsider for his pride. There is a major reason that breaking the Seed worked - Twilight is an outside force aggressively invading our plane via time-dimensional break ( gulp ) - thus breaking the conduit to the outsider planes worked. If this Universe was one and the same with 'that' Universe it would not have worked , metaphysically speaking.
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moscowwatcher
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Post by moscowwatcher on Dec 10, 2010 16:08:43 GMT -5
Maybe because the alternative was even worse? For example, Angel refuses to follow Twilight's plan; Twilight chooses Roden and Gigi; they give birth to Twilight and bring him(her?) the Seed. Nobody can beat them, because they're Gods. And Earth dies. (I don't insist that I'm right here; I only say that there is such option. I suspect that Joss will leave it open to interpretation). I will give you a better alternative, one that they know before that there is a seed in Sunnydale, and just go there and destroy it before any Twilight kitty or mouse chooses 2 persons to ascend. I have to reread season 8 from the beginning to the end. I just don't remember if anybody knew anything definitive about the Seed. I don't remember any mention of the Seed before #36. Of course, it's very preposterous that nobody knew about the Seed until Spike has found out something about it through his sources - but it's no more preposterous than the introduction on the Scythe in season 7 or Acathla in season 2. I don't know. Maybe. Most likely Whistler was another Twilight incarnation, after the dog, the flight attendant, the bird etc. But, OTOH, Whistler could be just Whistler. And he could be telling the truth (again, I don't insist; we don't have information confirming or negating it). And if he was telling the truth, then Angel's actions *did* contribute to avoiding the apocalypse. At terrible price, but still. It's interesting that the events in №34-38 created the impression that the Earth is destroyed. Do you remember the poll about the scale of destructions caused by space-frak and demons attacks? I voted "tens of millions", and I was sure that season 9 will be taking place in the post-apocalyptic world. Or in Normal-Again-world. Yet in #39 we find out that the Earth is mostly okay. At least the tourist business in Venice thrives as usual. So, maybe, - just maybe - it really was the only way to save the Earth? To make Buffy and Angel Twilight's parents? Connor was the only person who could destroy Jasmine; similarly, Buffy is the only person who could destroy Twilight. And, again, I repeat that it's just a theory. I don't insist that I'm right. I'm just checking the options.
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Post by angeliclestat on Dec 10, 2010 16:16:07 GMT -5
It's as good a theory as any other Moscow!What would save season 8 for me is if it is shown that Angel *did* do the right thing.That we get to see what would have happened if he hadn't assumed the mantle of Twilight. Because everything we have seen in regards to it is so wishy washy that we don't know exactly who was telling Angel what to do.If it *was* the PtB, then maybe they were doing it from a good place.However if it was agents of Twilight-then Angel was duped.
We just don't know.
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moscowwatcher
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Post by moscowwatcher on Dec 10, 2010 16:31:38 GMT -5
It's as good a theory as any other Moscow!What would save season 8 for me is if it is shown that Angel *did* do the right thing.That we get to see what would have happened if he hadn't assumed the mantle of Twilight. Because everything we have seen in regards to it is so wishy washy that we don't know exactly who was telling Angel what to do.If it *was* the PtB, then maybe they were doing it from a good place.However if it was agents of Twilight-then Angel was duped. We just don't know. Angeliclestat - I definitely remember reading somewhere that in season 9 Angel will try to "undo what he had done" - so, hopefully, we'll get more information on the events regarding Twilight. It just occurred to me that Issue 5 - Chain - could be kind of foreshadowing of Twilight. The nameless girl invades the underworld and provokes a civil war. We see the situation from her POV. We're supposed to root for her. Still, if we don't take the emotional stuff into consideration, here are cold facts. She has intruded a foreign territory and instigated a war in which many species were killed. Was she right? Was she wrong? I guess we'll never know.
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