Project 'Save The Fics'.

[Skytteflickan88]

The project's wikipage projectsavethefics.pbworks.com

I've been thinking about saving as many fanfics to my harddrive as possibly. Fanfiction sites I loved keeps getting deleted, and I feel the need to save as many fics as possible, not only those I've already read, but those I don't have the time to read now, but might want to in the future. But there's thousands of Buffy/Angel fanfics out there. So I need help.

I need to find sites with decent stories, need to divide them up between those interested in helping saving them, ask for permission from the authors, save the files, organize them somewhat and finally make them available for download.

I think it could take years to do this properly, and we might bet bored after a month or two, but by then, we would have a decent sized archive anyway.

No need for everyone involved to do everything.
You can:
*Come up with ideas how to do this.
*Help contact authors.
*Find good sites.
*Help save fics (in case you don't want to do a entire site, just a specific author or ship/character, or only non-sex stuff, that'd be fine).
*Help distribute the saved fics.

Anyone game? I don't need you to ever meet a deadline, or save illegal or immoral fics if you choose not to(we won't be saving incest, childporn or beastality fics, and people who want to stay away fron rape-fics, or a certain kind of fics get to do that), but weekly updates would be great, about what you have saved, what you choose not to save and why, which authors that said yes/no and maybe some other stuff.

[midwesternwatcher]

You know I'm game! If there's a site you want me to explore, let me know. I have a number of sites bookmarked, but I've only scratched the surface. Do you have an FTP server? My son does, I'll see if I could get him to help. Maybe we could have a rating system of some kind, "people's choice fanfics," etc.

I'm not sure just what your moral boundaries are, maybe we could agree on guidelines. You know my views, I think. I don't care for anything that is too sexually explicit in the Buffyverse. My love for Buffy is pure and chaste, like my love for you.

I have a liking for Faith-related fics, including Fuffy.

Oh, while I'm all in favor of contacting the authors, is it really necessary to make an archive? I assume this stuff is all creative commons, isn't it? They're giving it away free, aren't they?

This is a great idea BTW.

[Skytteflickan88]

I hope it's all right I answer your post and email here, to keep it all in one place?

I have no idea what a FTP server is, so I probably don't have that, but any help from your son would be welcome. Mention more about this rating system you have in mind.

I actually had you in mind when adding the "You can choose not to save certain fics" lines. If you wish not to save (remember that you don't have to read what you save) certain fics, you can simply tell me. But in that case I'm likely to do it instead, since I don't have a problem with them, lol. I plan on trying to save everything I come across, unless it's evil-ish (like childporn. Things like that we will avoid completely). I feel like great fics with a great plot shouldn't be overlooked because they're also naughty.

If you know of any specific Fuffy/Faith sites, maybe a small one, we can start there and divide up the work, kind of have a test run.

I would like to have it as a rule to always contact the authors. I have noticed that many mention that they don't want their stuff re-published without their permission, and since I don't want to be hated online, I think we should always ask first, since we plan on sharing these fics, not just saving it to out own harddrives.

About the stuff in your email:

I don't really know the best way of saving files. Right now, I think that PDFs would be the easiest, but then we can't go back in and add extra info if needed, we'd have to change the original file. Right now I would want to have author name, fic name, where I found the fic, and when in the files, but later on, I would want to add things, or possibly sequels written after we have found the fics. So we would need a document type that anyone could easily edit. But that won't look wonky on different computers, or when converted to different files. Sometimes I find that spaces and blanks are removed when converting files. Don't want that, so we basically need to find the ultimate document type (which I don't know). Not html, one of the files you sent, since authors often publish different chapters under different urls.

But I don't exactly get what you meant by the filesnames, both html and txt? That we write "author, title, file 1(html), file 2(txt)?

Thansk for loving me, BTW, all chaste like.

[midwesternwatcher]

Too much to talk about all at once.

Contacting the authors, I know why you want to do that, but it may not be practical. I just sent an email to Wyndgyrl yesterday, no answer yet. She might answer, indeed, but what if she doesn't? Most people, including myself, like to be somewhat anonymous on the web, which makes it hard to track us down. Here's my feeling: we archive the stuff, give it proper attribution as much as we can, never change the content, remove anything upon request from the author, and we're OK. We should attempt to contact the author, but not limit ourselves to stuff we have explicit permission to use.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned FTP. As I think about it, that doesn't seem necessary. But if you're curious, FTP stands for file transfer protocol. It's an old way of communicating across the web, not too much used anymore, but it's good for transferring large files. In this case, we don't need it. I could send you all my fanfic files by email attachments, as I sent those files to you yesterday. So I guess you'd have to send your email address to anybody interested in the project?

You could get a hell of a lot of fanfics in 2 gigs. HD space is probably not a problem. You should have a backup, though. For local backup, do you have a USB HD? I could provide you with remote backup.

The filenames: I sent you those two by Wyndgyrl.

Wyndgyrl Nowhere Far enough WillowTara.htm

That means Wyndgyrl is the author, Nowhere Far Enough is the title, WillowTara is the pairing (if we want to include that), htm is the file format. Double click on it, it should open in your default web browser. The other file has the same title, except that the file extension is txt. This means plain text. This file would be relatively easy to edit, if somebody wanted to produce a nice-looking printable version. The text content of the two files is the same.

pdf files? Anybody can open them, that's good, but they're very hard to edit.

Right now I'm thinking about collecting a large archive as fast as possible, which means very little attention to any individual fic. That would mean the archive would be a mess. Some child porn might sneak in there without us noticing it. Also, the archive would be hard to search.

We'll talk later.

Oops ... gotta add this. Yesterday I joined a Dawnslash group on yahoo. I got an email from the moderator today, so it functions. I haven't looked at it yet. I understand it contains a number of Buffy-Dawn fics, a pairing I hadn't thought of. Most of these fics stress the fact that Dawn and Buffy aren't really sisters. Except ... they really are, aren't they? I haven't read any of them yet. What do you think about that?

[Skytteflickan88]

I'm sorry, but I feel like we should only archive the stuff we're allowed to. I assume we're going to be drowning in fics anyway.

About how we should distribute this: I'm thinking pbworks.com It's a great site, where anyone can create a wiki. It works just like wikipedia, and everyone invloved in the project would be able to edit and add, and anyone could come on and download files. Not sure how large files we can upload though, but I assume maybe just one fic (including all chapters) per hyperlink. I'll check the maximum size of the files. I'll create a wiki tomorrow to show you what I mean and how it would work.

I have a USB memory, which should do for now, but I will soon buy a external harddrive with atleast 120 GB.

I think we should user plain text, but question is what file type to pick. We can ask someone who know better. Something that's easy to open for everyone, and hard to screw up.

I think we should start out slow, not hurrying, since we need a way to organize this, and we might realize a huge problem after we have collected hundreds of fics, and then must start over.

I don't think it would be smart to be too detailed, maybe by authors, main characters, and main genre only (so we coulld write 'WillowTara romanc'e instead of WillowTara)? One day we might be able to be more organized, but as long as all the info (warnings, spoilers, etc etc) is written in the beginning of the plain text, just like the author wrote tín the fic description it should be fine.

The incest matter is a touchy one. I personally think that grown ups should do what they want to do, as long as no one gets hurt. But then we have to dicuss if Buffy isn't using Dawn, her younger sister, even if they don't feel like sisters. Anyway, let's avoid the incest fics all together. There's enough other fics out there without them.

Btw, what do we count as child porn? I've read non sexual angsty fics where younger characters than 18 gets raped, and I don't think that is child porn, as long as it's not explicit and the fic has a plot? Not sure what the law says. But even if it's explicit, it could further the plot, but maybe we should try to stay away from those unless it's clear that it's not detailed?

And I'm hope you're fine with me collecting PWPs (porn without plots)? You don't have to, but I will, as long as they're not illegal (which means that as long as no children or animals are in them, I'm not going to decide which that are "too wrong" or not).

- EDIT

If we try not to ever duplicate any files, we need to categorize them in a certain way. How about we categorize them according to pairing(including crossoverpairings), or if they have pairing, according to genre instead?

[midwesternwatcher]

So you don't want to collect Wyndgyrl until we can find her? I do hope she replies to my email. If not ... maybe we could put out an appeal on this board, see if there's anybody who knows where she is. Same with any other authors of good fanfic we can't locate.

What is child porn? Let's cross that bridge when we come to it. I haven't read such a lot of fics, but I haven't seen any that strike me as that category. As far as the law is concerned? I only know the law in the United States, where you and some of our other members don't live. In the US, for all practical purposes, in literary works, anything goes, no limits at all, and incest and child porn stories aren't hard to find if you want them. There was a battle recently about CG cartoons and films, but apparently the pornographers won that battle. Where do we draw the line? Photographs of actual children (under 18) engaged in sex are still illegal, and the law seems to be vigorously enforced. So as long as we don't collect photos, we're square, at least in the US.

I did once see what appeared to be a photo of Buffy and Dawn together in deshabille. It was obviously photoshopped. I didn't care to look at it.

For me? I'm more conservative than a lot of Buffy fans, as you know. Any PWP will have to survive without my help.

Here's part of my feeling. The Buffyverse characters should be relevant to normal people. Anything that really isn't acceptable to the vast majority would make them irrelevant.

Did you get those files I sent you? Were they helpful?

[midwesternwatcher]

Sigh, back again. Still can't find wyndgyrl. I've already saved all I found on her site, excluding what she calls erotica, which includes a Buffy-Dawn fic. I'll keep it if you won't.

I joined a Yahoo group called Dawnslash. I don't think I'll ever go back there, it's awful.

I also joined the BuffynFaith fanfic net, which seems to have some good stuff on it. I'll see what I can do about downloading from it.

Here's a text for a typical request for author permission. I haven't sent it to anybody yet. What do you think?

Hi! I'm part of a project on Slay Alive which is intended to provide an archive of better-quality fanfics, in case they someday disappear from the web (some already have). Do I have your permission to make copies of your fics on my hard drive? If so, how do you feel about my distributing them, either privately or through a new website that we may be setting up? We will, of course, never change your work, and we will always give proper attribution. I'm looking forward to your reply. You can reach me at [e-mail]. Thanks! R (midwestern_watcher).

[Skytteflickan88]

Yes, I got the files. I talked about them in my last post, about choosing text files. I'll get back to you on which format is the best, I'm asking around on computer forums.

That letter seems good. Did you find the one I posted on the wiki? Not sure we need to mention slayalive, complicates things, unless they know of us.

projectsavethefics.pbworks.com/w/page/32296034/Author-contact-guidelines

[midwesternwatcher]

I followed your link. I'll use your version. I'll repeat the comment I made there though ... even if there are only two of us doing this, we still might both be contacting the same author. Is there some way we could prevent that? Or should we just let it happen? Have you contacted any authors yet? I guess we could put up a list of authors on the project page, to be checked before a new contact letter goes out.

I'm looking at the fanfics at BuffynFaith.net, which seems like a pretty good site so far, I haven't explored it very much yet. I'm thinking of sending contact letters first to the authors of stories in the "non-shipped" category. Should I just go ahead and do my thing, or should we coordinate?

You mentioned we might get bored after a few months. A thought. We won't get bored if we believe in the fics we're saving. That's why, one reason why, I want to save quality fics first, assuming I can identify them. How? One thought I already mentioned, let people send us their recommendations.

[Skytteflickan88]

I answered on the site, have you seen it?

I made a list, so that we won't get confused. Write about your site on that page. We can start with BuffynFaith.net. Create a wiki page for it and write the authors on the Author progress page, like I did with All about Spike. As I said, I think we should go author by author, not genre for genre or ship by ship, so when if you get approval for collecting fics, collect all fics by the author (unless they have soemthing about them you don't like or something) not just the non-shipping fics. If you don't collect all fics, write why, and which date you finished collecting. For follow the templete on the author progress page.

I also want certain info in the beginning of each file (not the name, just the file itself, before the fic starts). Check under NOTES projectsavethefics.pbworks.com/w/page/32296562/Guidelines-for-collecting-the-fics

[midwesternwatcher]

I'm a bit confused. I take it you're working on "All About Spike," which is good. So you created a wiki? I see a tab called "wiki." Now I should create a wiki for "BuffynFaith"? I'm not quite sure how to do that. Apparently it's not the same as creating a page. But let's say I do. I can't just call it "wiki," can I? It has to be distinguishable from your wiki and others that may come up later. Then I'm supposed to list all the authors? If I can find a list? And enter the list on the wiki? Am I right so far?

What do those asterisks, mean, anything? It looks like you haven't received replies from any authors yet.

I can't send any requests until I have a url to put where those XXXX are in the letter you wrote. So I guess I have to create the wiki. Tomorrow I'll see if I can figure out how. It looks like BuffynFaith has a ton of stuff, some of it much reviewed.

Oh, that comic I sent you, I don't think it was so dirty. It was too funny to be really dirty.

[Skytteflickan88]

The whole site I showed you is a wiki. Each new page is a wikipage, so yes, you do create new pages for new content, but no need to create a new wiki.

Here's a guide to the site

The first page, introducing the project projectsavethefics.pbworks.com/w/page/32285225/Project-Save-The-Fics

Further down on that site, you find links to the content of the rest of the wiki. It's just like a website. The first page is the home page and the rest are sub pages.

Click on each of those links, check them out, hopefully most of them are self explanatory.

*pretending to wait*

I hope you got the set up, but I might need to clearify;
Up to the right, on the menu, you see a icon saying "create a page. Do that, and make that page look like this one projectsavethefics.pbworks.com/w/page/32325360/Site-All-About-Spike and name it 'Site BuffynFaith'

Same template, just add the authors of that site (add all of them, even if you're not going to save their fics for whatever reason. This is too keep track of them).

Then save that site (there's a difference between 'save' and 'save and continue', because when you click the continue button your don't actually "leave" the page).

Then, beneath the NAVIGATOR menu, go to SITES, and add the BuffynFaith site link there, under B, like I did with all about spike. When you are in EDIT-mood, you see a shortcut for adding internal link (link to the wiki, not link outside the wiki). The BuffynFaith link will be added when you click on the name it beneath the 'insert a link' box (which is now where the NAVIGATOR' box used to be.

Then, you need to do a similar thing on Author and progress page. projectsavethefics.pbworks.com/w/page/32292200/Authors-and-progress Did what i did with All About spike. Add all the author there too. Don't worry if it looks sloppy, I can edit.

And if you do something, a revise that you don't like, we can delete the latest revisions. I've had to do that a few times when I've screwed up.

Anything you're still uncertain about? I would be, I'm not a good explainer. If you don't want to make the edits youself, I can.

Thos asteriks mean nothing, I'll delete them later. I haven't emailed anyone yet (something I will writer about on the author progress page).

I'll fix the letter now too, and add the link to the wiki.

[midwesternwatcher]

Thanks, Queen C. I'll print that out, reread it, probably tomorrow I'll do something with it. Today we have guests over, so I have to pretend to be a nice person. Very exhausting.

[Skytteflickan88]

In case it gets too complicated, you can just PM me what you're doing, how far you've come with each author, the fics you saved, and I'll add the info to the pages. Might be hard to get my system.

[midwesternwatcher]

getting into an unexpected problem .... I tend to read the fics, if they strike me as any good at all, so I don't get around to archiving them.

[Skytteflickan88]

How do you mean?

[midwesternwatcher]

Well, it just takes time to read them, and that's time I'm not spending contacting authors or downloading files or whatever. And you know, I have other things on my plate, including my upcoming podcast. My son tells me he already listed it with iTunes, but when I search on iTunes, I don't find it. Not sure what's going on.

[midwesternwatcher]

Hope this doesn't count as a double post after more than a week.

How do you feel about crossover fics? I'm working on Electra's Elsewhere, which is a good site if you like Fuffy. It includes a little crossover, Buffy-Dollhouse and Buffy-VM.

[Skytteflickan88]

I don't think it's a double post if 24h has passed. Check the rules.

I love crossoverfics, collect away!