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Post by hitnrun017 on Jan 4, 2008 21:58:09 GMT -5
I gotta be honest, I didn't really like it. I was very excited for this issue and I tried so SO hard to like it, but I just couldn't. First of all, the writing is just pure genius, some of Joss's best, it was funny and it was heartbreaking, but to me, it just didn't work for a comic. The last 6 pages are heartbreaking, but I couldn't get emotionally invested in it, or at least not as much as I wanted to. Put Alyson and Sarah together on screen with a production crew and I would of been crying my eyes out, but it's text and art.
All of these characters have changed so much. Buffy stealing money, Willow blaming Buffy for Tara's death and Dawn sleeping with her boyfriend's roommate. It's a lot to take in for a comic.
And I also found it just too confusing. I still don't understand who or what the whole Sephrilian thing is. And also pretty much everything Slayer489 asked.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Jan 4, 2008 22:55:07 GMT -5
Hmm, I took at as a past. Because Buffy explains to Willow that it was victimless and she found some Nazi thing. But I could of misunderstood something.
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Post by Essentially Yours on Jan 5, 2008 0:25:11 GMT -5
Not to be random but...
"Oh thank God!" -Buffy
I just thought that line was excessively funny for some reason when the bridge broke and Will and Buffy are falling.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Jan 5, 2008 0:29:49 GMT -5
Actually I think the robbing banks is a flashback thing. It explains how the gang has money to finance the high tech now.
Buffy stealing, and getting Slayers to help her really reminds me of a scene where someone thought it would be okay to take from a sporting goods store...
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Post by Rebecca on Jan 5, 2008 0:50:57 GMT -5
ooooh-- buffy's getting naughty.
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Post by sagewoman on Jan 5, 2008 2:37:39 GMT -5
I loved this issue! I had to read it twice to even begin to get the substories and inter-relationships. And will read it again to learn even more. The dialogue was great - lots of material - so many of the other comics seem to be too short and this was very fulfilling. Did you read the letters at the end? I think that Joss did a fabulous job with Robin - how the changing realities that Robin as a minder must protect and how they map so well to Robin's real life schizonphrenia - it was heartrenderingly touching. I hope that this gives her joy. In response to some of the emails above - IMO Willow is not 'blaming' Buffy for Tara's death. She is blaming herself for 1. thinking that her way was the only way when it came to 'making everything right' via magic; and bringing Buffy back from heaven (although Buffy eventually came to terms with it) which brought on the First, and set the course for Tara's death from Warren as he attempted to murder Buffy. What she said was what she meant - she 'chose' Buffy over Tara - actually over everyone - but Tara's tragic death hurt the most. As for the Buffy Bank Caper - that, I believe, is in the past - the bank-rolling of the Slayers. The view Buffy was getting at first was from an outside perspective so she would easily assume that it was happening now, not before. Once the view included her, she then realized it was her own caper. Her excuse was lame - sure it was insured - but it wasn't right. She gets down on Faith for bending the rules. Buffy has always steered a clear course based on what is right. Willow is right - a slip here and there will pull them down and is a good reason for the military and humans to turn on the Slayers. I wonder if she did it with Giles' knowledge and approval? Faith would have a good laugh if she knew - actually she would rub it in. On another note - the Sephrilian - I can't help but wonder if this is a small plug for SMG-P's new movie - The Air that I Breathe - the four faces on the demon could be related to the four emotions of happiness, pleasure, love and sorrow - although the faces look more like happiness. sorrow, anger and fear. And these are only my initial thoughts.
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juniorwatcher
Potential Slayer
There's that word again, what you are, how you'll die...alone. - The First[Mo0:0]
Posts: 131
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Post by juniorwatcher on Jan 5, 2008 3:05:55 GMT -5
Personally, I couldn't give a damn about all that other reality hooplah. I was more interested in Buffy & Willow obviously, (sidebar: Dawn went all skanky, ooh Dawnie...) I guess it does make sense that Willow would want to keep Kennedy away from Buffy, but I hope their relationship doesn't stay rocky, because Buffy is already alienated from Dawn and Giles, she needs her BFFs right now. Didn't they already do the whole "everyone turning their backs on Buffy" thing in S.7 - End of Days?
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
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Post by dane5by5 on Jan 5, 2008 3:13:32 GMT -5
I gotta be honest, I didn't really like it. I was very excited for this issue and I tried so SO hard to like it, but I just couldn't. First of all, the writing is just pure genius, some of Joss's best, it was funny and it was heartbreaking, but to me, it just didn't work for a comic. The last 6 pages are heartbreaking, but I couldn't get emotionally invested in it, or at least not as much as I wanted to. Put Alyson and Sarah together on screen with a production crew and I would of been crying my eyes out, but it's text and art. All of these characters have changed so much. Buffy stealing money, Willow blaming Buffy for Tara's death and Dawn sleeping with her boyfriend's roommate. It's a lot to take in for a comic. And I also found it just too confusing. I still don't understand who or what the whole Sephrilian thing is. And also pretty much everything Slayer489 asked. Willow doesn't blame Buffy for Tara's death. She blames herself. She also blames herself for Buffy being unhappy (a call back to season six) after she removed her from "heaven". I really liked seeing the flashback to Buffy robbing the bank, it really seems that Buffy is even more focused on the "mission" than in season seven, another nice reference. This was a really good issue, it opened so many questions, but also answered some, like where has Kennedy been, what happened to Dawn (I loved that she cheated on Kenny and then became a giant, it's too funny). The art was awesome. I love Cliff Richards art. I wish he was the main series artist. His likeness to the actors is impeccable. Some things I wasn't sure about, in the scene where it showed a flashback of Willow (presumably on her "six month mystical walkabout") who was talking, Willow or that demon? I really want to know what that was all about. Why did Willow disappear for so long? What was she doing? I liked the role Joss gave to Robin, it was nice and fitting. I think this is my favourite issue so far. I hope it isn't Willow who betrays Buffy! I wonder if we find out in the next issue... Also it was a great concept to base an issue around a game, especially one that already had a history in the series. I loved the Willow/Tina Fey scene and Buffy's Christian Bale scene.
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Slayer489
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Why do I feel like this? Why do I let Spike do those things to me?" - Buffy 'Dead Things'[Mo0:0]
Posts: 784
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Post by Slayer489 on Jan 5, 2008 6:48:57 GMT -5
OK, I re-read it, I now understand most of it. And I LOVE it. Such a great issue. I think it needs to be read more than once to get the gist. And I didn't see a panel the first time I read it, so reading it twice was a help. Only thing that still bothers me is that factory they flew over with all the paper. Is that part of the reality bending thing? I'm just gonna say it is. And when Willow says referring to meeting Robin, "we do later on". I also loved Cliff Richards art. F-A-N-T-A-S-T-I-C-A-L-L-Y BRILLIANT!
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airgirl
Initiative Soldier
Dark Moon
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 337
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Post by airgirl on Jan 5, 2008 8:08:12 GMT -5
The bank robbing was definitely a flashback. It's very clear that it is. it explains why the military / establishment are so pissed off with her - she stole from them. Willow's thing with serpant lady was a flashback too, one which might go some way to explain how she got so much extra powers (& links to kennedy's reference about 6 month magical walkabout).
Only the betrayal scene was a future thing.
Lovely portrayal of Robin and such a deserving winner. Did you guys read the letters? I also loved the letter about the grandparents - it would be great to see them in a future comic too :-)
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Lukee
Ensouled Vampire
Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
Posts: 1,137
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Post by Lukee on Jan 5, 2008 8:58:50 GMT -5
Actually I think the robbing banks is a flashback thing. It explains how the gang has money to finance the high tech now. Everything that they were shown were visions of the future. It was time-bendy, and that's why for a moment they each felt like they "remembered" things that hadn't happened yet. Buffy hasn't stolen money yet. I though the first things the old one showed them where stuff they have already done but not told each other about. To mess with them. I would explain why and how Buffy got all the money for this new tech and such. I don't think she really did anything wrong, how else are they going to save the world with all these new slayers. They need money to buy the stuff, to put a roof over the slayers heads. I think its the less the world owes them after everything. Plus yes the bank was insured.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jan 5, 2008 9:22:11 GMT -5
I hope Buffy does rob banks. It's way more interesting that she's losing some morals for the "greater good". Blurry lines are goooood.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jan 5, 2008 9:40:57 GMT -5
I see a problem in it. It's stealing, morally and legally wrong. It's great that she would have become the kind of person who'd do it though, arrogant and abusing the fact that she has the power to do it and get away with it. Showing the moral ambiguity Angel faked in the later episodes of season 5; I have no problem with that.
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Lukee
Ensouled Vampire
Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
Posts: 1,137
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Post by Lukee on Jan 5, 2008 9:45:28 GMT -5
I see a problem in it. It's stealing, morally and legally wrong. It's great that she would have become the kind of person who'd do it though, arrogant and abusing the fact that she has the power to do it and get away with it. Showing the moral ambiguity Angel faked in the later episodes of season 5; I have no problem with that. I don't think there is a problem with her stealing i mean like Mikey said its people being up set over the loss of some money or the end of the world. They need the money, they cant very well magic it out of thin air personal gain and all. So why not steal from the rich to give to the slayers who are going to be saving your sorry butts.
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Post by Giant Michael on Jan 5, 2008 9:48:16 GMT -5
Everything that they were shown were visions of the future. It was time-bendy, and that's why for a moment they each felt like they "remembered" things that hadn't happened yet. Buffy hasn't stolen money yet. 'We totally found a Watteau the Nazis hid and sent it to The Tate!' - past tense. Tense, in the past. MB x
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Post by Giant Michael on Jan 5, 2008 9:51:18 GMT -5
Didn't they already do the whole "everyone turning their backs on Buffy" thing in S.7 - End of Days? I think this time the other Scoobies have a reason for turning on Buffy, though; I think they can see that Buffy is going down a very dark road, and that only in distancing themselves from her might they be able to help her. MB x
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Post by henzINNIT on Jan 5, 2008 9:55:32 GMT -5
I see a problem in it. It's stealing, morally and legally wrong. It's great that she would have become the kind of person who'd do it though, arrogant and abusing the fact that she has the power to do it and get away with it. Showing the moral ambiguity Angel faked in the later episodes of season 5; I have no problem with that. I don't think there is a problem with her stealing i mean like Mikey said its people being up set over the loss of some money or the end of the world. They need the money, they cant very well magic it out of thin air personal gain and all. So why not steal from the rich to give to the slayers who are going to be saving your sorry butts. I don't understand how you can be fine with it to be honest. You've all but said it's okay to do bad things if it's for the greater good. Fine. No debate there. What I'm saying is that it's a dark path.
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Lukee
Ensouled Vampire
Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
Posts: 1,137
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Post by Lukee on Jan 5, 2008 9:57:16 GMT -5
Didn't they already do the whole "everyone turning their backs on Buffy" thing in S.7 - End of Days? I think this time the other Scoobies have a reason for turning on Buffy, though; I think they can see that Buffy is going down a very dark road, and that only in distancing themselves from her might they be able to help her. MB x But isn't that what a slayer dose. Shes been alone for so long its going to be hard to not feel so alone. I don't see why they would even think about turning there backs on her. I mean everything she has done has been for the right thing. Saving the world. Saving people. When they turned on her in S7 i was mega mad because they did it just because of one mistake and such really they should trust her more. I don't think they truly got over the turning there backs on Buffy thing in s7 i mean they never really talked about it Buffy just came back and away they go so maybe there still some of them feelings about..
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Slayer489
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Why do I feel like this? Why do I let Spike do those things to me?" - Buffy 'Dead Things'[Mo0:0]
Posts: 784
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Post by Slayer489 on Jan 5, 2008 11:12:51 GMT -5
What I'm stuck at is Buffy saying... "In a Swiss bank? That's crazy nonsense. I'm sure I would have found out..." Then it cuts to Buffy seeing herself. Which to me = flashfoward. Maybe it's because it's in comic form and I can't read their faces, but it just didn't come off to me like "Whoops, I got caught, my bad,". With the time bending, and them knowing stuff they aren't supposed to know yet and everything, it's really confusing. In that quote I think Buffy didn't realise that it was her robbery at first. She thought it was some sort of bank robbery that she was being shown and hadn't heard of.
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Post by roguewarrior on Jan 5, 2008 12:12:18 GMT -5
I see a problem in it. It's stealing, morally and legally wrong. It's great that she would have become the kind of person who'd do it though, arrogant and abusing the fact that she has the power to do it and get away with it. Showing the moral ambiguity Angel faked in the later episodes of season 5; I have no problem with that. I don't think there is a problem with her stealing i mean like Mikey said its people being up set over the loss of some money or the end of the world. They need the money, they cant very well magic it out of thin air personal gain and all. So why not steal from the rich to give to the slayers who are going to be saving your sorry butts. because the slayers are acting above the law and basically going down the path that Faith did by saying that their better then everyone else and that they are the law. stealing the money is self serving. saving the world is sure as heck helping everyone. but it doesn't seem right that they always want something out of it. theres a line in a song by Linkin Park that says 'the sun doesn't give the light to the moon assuming the moon's gonna owe it one'. I just don't think them stealing the money is right.
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