Lukee
Ensouled Vampire
Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
Posts: 1,137
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Post by Lukee on Jan 7, 2008 16:53:03 GMT -5
SMG-B-FAN I'm not a fan of the art too this issue. Its just meh with the crappy shading i think.
Buffy has always been alone. Yes she has had her family and friends with her for years and such but shes always been alone. A slayer is always alone. And now there being more slayers in the world. She will be even more alone. Shes got to look after them all be the leader. Train them. Saving the world. She will never get a normal life.
And i think everyone was drifting apart during season 7 too. Its just getting bigger and bigger now.
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
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Post by dane5by5 on Jan 7, 2008 20:11:24 GMT -5
But isn't that what a slayer dose. Shes been alone for so long its going to be hard to not feel so alone. I think that's one of the interesting things we're starting to see in the new series: Buffy isn't alone anymore, and she's becoming more and more distanced from her friends as she assimilates herself with a bunch of girls who hero-worship her. Further, I don't like to generalise, but I think that anyone who doesn't see that Buffy is becoming morally corrupt - or, at least, morally ambiguous - is completely missing the point. This conviction that Buffy is the heroine and therefore everything she does is good seems very much against what Joss and the writers have done with Buffy and the Scoobies since day one. Nothing is as black and white as good guys and bad guys. Whether it's for a good cause or not, Buffy is still putting herself above the law and... well, you can't do that. Because it's wrong. MB x Because it's naughty. Anyway I completey agree that the lines are being blurred. Buffy has so much power now, worldwide power, and we all know what happens when people in the Buffyverse get power...
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Smashed
Junior Vampire Slayer
[Mo0:3]
Posts: 908
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Post by Smashed on Jan 7, 2008 23:13:51 GMT -5
am i the only one that noticed willows new hair cut?
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Post by CowboyGuy on Jan 8, 2008 0:04:07 GMT -5
am i the only one that noticed willows new hair cut? No I did too. It seems as if Buffy had one as well. Her hair was fairly long in Season 7. I like long hair Buffy better than short hair Buffy.
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Post by sagewoman on Jan 8, 2008 0:37:35 GMT -5
I don't condone stealing. However, the quote: "We totally found a Watteau the Nazis hid and sent it to The Tate!" puts it in a different persective for me. I say this based on a couple of current and historical things I've recalled: 1. Swiss Banks had and may still have a "no questions asked" policy. No one knew what was in the safe except the person who had the bank account number and secret codes/keys. 2. Swiss Bank Accounts (SBA) were and may still be the preferred bank for big time criminals. The US Treasury and IRS (and any other govenments) could not track the money nor could they force the Swiss to open the account. SBA became quite well known once it was learned that the Nazis stored the many fortunes, gems, jewelry, art, etc. they stole during World War II. Thousands of people were killed and all their belongings were taken by the Nazis. It was a gruesome time in history. 3. The reference to the Nazis and the Watteau prove to me that they have broken into a Nazi bank account - the Nazis owning it may be dead for all we know. The Swiss Banks have accounts that are passed down through generations so they would not simply open one up because no one visited it in years. Everything in it would have been stolen. Except for the art and specific pieces of jewelry, it would be virtually impossible to trace the original owners or their decendents. 4. Buffy, being a young american and familiar with how most things are insured for loss would assume that the bank account was insured. However, since the contents would not be inventoried by the bank, there would be no insurance or an amount that would have been far short of the actual value. Each bank customer would get their own vault/deposit box to store their treasures in - nothing would be circulated or seen by anyone other than the owner.Plus - I suspect there is no longer an owner - most Nazis have died by now (some are still around though and sent to Germany for trial for War Crimes). 5. Illgotten gains put to an honourable use (Nazi =illgotten, Slayers=good use) may be considered a good enough reason for the slayers to steal the money. 6. I do not believe that Buffy, her slayers or Xander would have the knowledge (after all they hated school classes) to plan this heist. I think Giles thought it up. He has the knowledge of history and secrets to ferret out which bank vault to break into. He may have ties to Britains secret service who may have a good idea of which accounts belong to the Nazis. Given that this is the situation - I believe that Buffy is not wrong for taking treasure that was stolen by the Nazis in her efforts to save the world and help the new slayers. I also believe that if any governments secret service managed to steal Nazi treasure would use it to finance their own covert operations (including the military). Oh and I loved this issue
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Post by sagewoman on Jan 8, 2008 0:44:56 GMT -5
It looks like Willow's still dressing like someone from the medival times... strange. I like Willow's clothing . It isn't really medieval - just alternative dressing. I've worn dresses like this and they are very comfortable. I can understand her wearing it. Paired with leggings and boots, it makes a great outfit. :witch:
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
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Post by dane5by5 on Jan 8, 2008 1:03:56 GMT -5
I don't condone stealing. However, the quote: "We totally found a Watteau the Nazis hid and sent it to The Tate!" puts it in a different persective for me. I say this based on a couple of current and historical things I've recalled: 1. Swiss Banks had and may still have a "no questions asked" policy. No one knew what was in the safe except the person who had the bank account number and secret codes/keys. 2. Swiss Bank Accounts (SBA) were and may still be the preferred bank for big time criminals. The US Treasury and IRS (and any other govenments) could not track the money nor could they force the Swiss to open the account. SBA became quite well known once it was learned that the Nazis stored the many fortunes, gems, jewelry, art, etc. they stole during World War II. Thousands of people were killed and all their belongings were taken by the Nazis. It was a gruesome time in history. 3. The reference to the Nazis and the Watteau prove to me that they have broken into a Nazi bank account - the Nazis owning it may be dead for all we know. The Swiss Banks have accounts that are passed down through generations so they would not simply open one up because no one visited it in years. Everything in it would have been stolen. Except for the art and specific pieces of jewelry, it would be virtually impossible to trace the original owners or their decendents. 4. Buffy, being a young american and familiar with how most things are insured for loss would assume that the bank account was insured. However, since the contents would not be inventoried by the bank, there would be no insurance or an amount that would have been far short of the actual value. Each bank customer would get their own vault/deposit box to store their treasures in - nothing would be circulated or seen by anyone other than the owner.Plus - I suspect there is no longer an owner - most Nazis have died by now (some are still around though and sent to Germany for trial for War Crimes). 5. Illgotten gains put to an honourable use (Nazi =illgotten, Slayers=good use) may be considered a good enough reason for the slayers to steal the money. 6. I do not believe that Buffy, her slayers or Xander would have the knowledge (after all they hated school classes) to plan this heist. I think Giles thought it up. He has the knowledge of history and secrets to ferret out which bank vault to break into. He may have ties to Britains secret service who may have a good idea of which accounts belong to the Nazis. Given that this is the situation - I believe that Buffy is not wrong for taking treasure that was stolen by the Nazis in her efforts to save the world and help the new slayers. I also believe that if any governments secret service managed to steal Nazi treasure would use it to finance their own covert operations (including the military). Oh and I loved this issue That is a really interesting perspective. I can't wait to find out the other details of the bank heist. Hopefully we will soon.
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faith0tvs
Novice Witch
I am the Slayer ask me How[Mo0:4]
Posts: 277
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Post by faith0tvs on Jan 8, 2008 13:42:19 GMT -5
Hmm i will put forth my two cents of thoughts.... Firstly i think that the new bad storyline has something to do with the Jean Gray/ Dark Phoenix saga from Xmen -the orginal form. What if someone really powerfull came back but was brainwashed in order to believe that all magic had to be eradicated from the world. His/Hers reason? People dont respect the Forces that they use , they abuse their power without thinking about the consequences or the Powers that Be therefore being unworthy to been able to channel them so they ought to be stripped from them. Traitor's identity?Imho Dawn, we've seen buffy been betrayed by friends but not by any family member -her mom acting weird in Gingerbread doesnt count for she was under the spell of a demon .It would be rather intresting to see what it would to to her character wise besides what if Dawn was really close to that person so he/sje could convince her to act as a traitor and supply the much needed information? By the way i think that the reaction "You cant do that Oh yes I can" is really intresting , at least for me.Besides Joss has done some pretty unbelievable things in the series so it must be something rather wild in order for someone to react like that..Or it might just be me and my wilkd imagination
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Post by willowrosenberg on Jan 8, 2008 20:02:57 GMT -5
I REALLY liked this one, very beautiful, aswell as the cover art :3 I'm happy to see another comic Willow major Willow plotage.
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Post by phlebotnum on Jan 8, 2008 23:26:46 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this issue, though I'm a big fan of Jeanty's and missed his work in #10 (especially the faces, which have been fantastic). I'm always a fan of having Daniel Craig pop up in random places wet and wearing swim trunks. You know, on a purely *ahem* aesthetic level.
I love what Joss did with Willow's internal guilt about what happened to Tara. He's continuing the work of myth building and hero(ine) culture. As relationships grow between the "believers" (Scoobies) and the leader/icon (Buffy), there is tension between knowing her on a personal level and believing in her on a hero level. Seven seasons of fantastic television explored this dynamic in many ways, especially in the relationship between Buffy and Xander. Much of the tension between Xander and Anya stemmed from the latter's intuitive knowledge that Xander was, above all, dedicated to "the mission" (which was synonymous with Buffy). His initial crush on Buffy evolved into a devotion that weathered all sorts of challenges, including mistakes and hurtful actions by Buffy herself.
Because there was only one season after Tara's death and Willow's rehabilitation and it was dominated by the biggest "big bad" of them all, we never really had a chance to see Willow come to terms with the cost of devoting oneself to "the mission." She made some very serious choices without considering their motives and potential outcomes (bringing Buffy back to life being the biggest of these) and now she has to figure out if having a relationship is compatible with "the mission," and how her wide range of feelings towards Buffy (love, devotion, resentment, regret, etc.) affect her understanding of what "the mission" even is.
I was skeptical about whether or not the comic medium could convey characterization to the degree that the television series did. I've completely converted and I don't think we could have season eight any other way. I have to pinch myself to make sure I'm not dreaming when I remember that there will be something like 40 or so issues in season 8!
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
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Post by dane5by5 on Jan 9, 2008 6:34:41 GMT -5
Does anyone get the reference of Buffy being afraid of the dark? It seems so out of character, she was in cemetaries almost every night for seven years. Why would she be afraid of the dark NOW?
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Slayer489
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Why do I feel like this? Why do I let Spike do those things to me?" - Buffy 'Dead Things'[Mo0:0]
Posts: 784
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Post by Slayer489 on Jan 9, 2008 11:42:36 GMT -5
Does anyone get the reference of Buffy being afraid of the dark? It seems so out of character, she was in cemetaries almost every night for seven years. Why would she be afraid of the dark NOW? Something traumatic may have happened to Buffy in the dark off-screen. Or off-page. Also, does anyone know what Willow meant when she was referring to Robin saying that they meet later on? I REALLY don't understand that.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jan 9, 2008 16:52:37 GMT -5
I think her problem with the dark has developed since the slayers were called. Buffy is now a huge and hated name, and she surrounds herself with a team often now, so being alone in the dark probably scares her. Or, you know, maybe not lol
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Post by Giant Michael on Jan 9, 2008 17:40:16 GMT -5
Metaphorical dark, I think. The kind that Dracula introduced her to: the darkness within herself. I think it's going to take more than a night light to resolve this series!
MB x
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juniorwatcher
Potential Slayer
There's that word again, what you are, how you'll die...alone. - The First[Mo0:0]
Posts: 131
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Post by juniorwatcher on Jan 9, 2008 19:53:02 GMT -5
That's what I got out of the whole "I'm afraid of the dark" thing, I didn't take it as literal, I took it as metaphorical. She's afraid of the "demon within" if you can actually call it that. The whole theme that started in Buffy vs. Dracula, the darkness that is Buffy, or the darkness that is The Slayer. She's afraid that now she has All this power. She's the leader of 1800 superpowered beings, and afraid of what she might do or be tempted to do...Buffy's not superwoman, she's still human, she has human pressures....who knows what our blonde heroine willl get herself into this season?
I mean her sister won't even talk to her anymore for some reason (though I think it's because Dawn thinks that Buffy will be ashamed of her...Buffy's done some sick things (mostly with Spike) but, she's never sleazed with anybody while she was in a relationship...
She and Giles aren't on speaking terms.
She thinks Faith tried to kill her again
She just found out that apart of her bestest friend feels regret that she ever brought her back to life...that she let herself choose Buffy over the one she loved...
But, who knows, other than those slick sneaky writers....those jackasses....
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
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Post by dane5by5 on Jan 9, 2008 20:37:59 GMT -5
Metaphorical dark makes much more sense. Thanks.
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commandercool
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
DON'T PANIC![Mo0:37]
Posts: 744
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Post by commandercool on Jan 9, 2008 21:07:19 GMT -5
I don't normally like to get into the symbolism of things I see/read, but I'm taking a lot of English classes right now, so I have no choice (thanks a lot teachers, you've ruined a lot of otherwise fine books for me. Jerks.) I have enjoyed the symbolism in Joss's works, though, and I just finally connected the dots as to what tara's death "meant".
The day I first discovered this forum when I was looking around for reviews of season 8, I found a link to a lesbian forum with a lengthy discussion about Tara's death. They weren't very fair for the most part, and seemed to have interpreted it as a message against homosexuality. Their reasoning was that Tara had died in her bedroom, right after sleeping with Willow, so of course she died because she was gay. Of course this is not true at all, but it did get me thinking about the real symbolism (if any) of Tara's unfortunate demise. I deduced that her death symbolised that Willow could never have what she wanted the most, but I assumed that it was just because she was a Whedon character and was therefore screwed to live a miserable life. I never connected the whole deal to Buffy's ressurection before, but it made a ton of sense. I salute Joss.
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
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Post by dane5by5 on Jan 9, 2008 21:22:29 GMT -5
I don't normally like to get into the symbolism of things I see/read, but I'm taking a lot of English classes right now, so I have no choice (thanks a lot teachers, you've ruined a lot of otherwise fine books for me. Jerks.) I have enjoyed the symbolism in Joss's works, though, and I just finally connected the dots as to what tara's death "meant". The day I first discovered this forum when I was looking around for reviews of season 8, I found a link to a lesbian forum with a lengthy discussion about Tara's death. They weren't very fair for the most part, and seemed to have interpreted it as a message against homosexuality. Their reasoning was that Tara had died in her bedroom, right after sleeping with Willow, so of course she died because she was gay. Of course this is not true at all, but it did get me thinking about the real symbolism (if any) of Tara's unfortunate demise. I deduced that her death symbolised that Willow could never have what she wanted the most, but I assumed that it was just because she was a Whedon character and was therefore screwed to live a miserable life. I never connected the whole deal to Buffy's ressurection before, but it made a ton of sense. I salute Joss. Yeah, that only really clicked for me after reading "Anywhere But Here". A life for a life kind of deal. Tara for Buffy.
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Post by Giant Michael on Jan 10, 2008 8:25:08 GMT -5
Gay people just aren't allowed to live happily ever after. Who is, in the Buffyverse? Happy couples rarely make for interesting stories, especially when the story has been in the telling for almost twenty years (if you figure in the original film, although I rarely do). MB x
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
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Posts: 734
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Post by dane5by5 on Jan 10, 2008 8:44:17 GMT -5
I think in the context of Buffy/Angel that argument is just ridiculous. Who in the Buffyverse have nice happily-ever-after relationships that show a more positive message? Buffy & Angel = death. Buffy & Spike = death. Buffy & Riley = Tragic breakup. Xander & Anya = Tragic breakup and death. Willow & Oz = Tragic breakup. Giles & Jenny = death.
It's the Buffy formula, it's nothing against homosexuality. Some people will just exploit their position in a minority just to make a scene.
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