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Post by ilovewillow on Jun 14, 2008 12:07:23 GMT -5
I've finally read all the replies in this thread, I must say it's made some interesting reading I've yet to vote, mainly because this storyline is still in it's very early stages. When my sister told me about the spoiler of Satsu and Buffy sleeping together I was really shocked. Not because they're both women but because I didn't see any indication that Buffy had feelings for Satsu. That being said, it's not like people have to have feelings for a person to sleep with them. It's true that Satsu is in love with Buffy, and this is the reason why I think that what Buffy did was wrong. Yes she is lonely, misses sex with someone who's interested in her and clearly has emotional problems, but to share something that intimate with a person who you know is in love with you, while you don't feel the same way is selfish. Some members have excused Buffy's actions saying along the lines of '' Buffy's lonely... horny...misses intimacy...'' blah blah, that doesn't mean Buffy should be allowed to use Satsu at her disposal. It was incredibly selfish, since it will make it ten times harder for Satsu to get over her. That being said again, if I was Satsu I probably would still sleep with Buffy in the hope of getting her out of my system, but how often does it work out like that? I think it was a good move on Joss' part, since it's keeping the fans guessing. I don't believe that it's a marketing ploy. I do agree with other members who've said that Faith seems like the more likely choice for Buffy to have a same sex encounter with ( I wouldn't say no! I'm straight btw ) and Faith showed more signs of being bi-curious at least than Buffy ever has. But like other members have said, these characters have many layers to their nature that have yet to be exposed and explored. <3333
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
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Post by Joe on Jul 7, 2008 8:36:05 GMT -5
Joss didn't make a horrible decision. I just prefer Buffy to be with guys.
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ellie
Innocent Bystander
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Post by ellie on Jul 24, 2008 18:32:35 GMT -5
Yes she is lonely, misses sex with someone who's interested in her and clearly has emotional problems, but to share something that intimate with a person who you know is in love with you, while you don't feel the same way is selfish. Not to mention irresponsible, since she's Satsu's superior. I can easily imagine Giles having words with her about abusing her role as a leader. I don't have any problems with Buffy hooking up with anybody. But then, I still am wrapping my head around the first time she had sex with Spike, not to mention all the nutty hijinx those two got up to through the rest of Season 6. The Satsu thing, from where I stand, is much more about Buffy's isolation and loneliness than anything else, and also her irresponsibility. It wasn't a smart thing to do at all, as Satsu's commander, to sleep with her. Not to mention that Buffy's losing her best fighter because Satsu can't bear to be around her anymore. So maybe that'll come back later to bite her in the ass. Btw, hi. I'm new.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jul 24, 2008 18:43:58 GMT -5
Yes she is lonely, misses sex with someone who's interested in her and clearly has emotional problems, but to share something that intimate with a person who you know is in love with you, while you don't feel the same way is selfish. Not to mention irresponsible, since she's Satsu's superior. I can easily imagine Giles having words with her about abusing her role as a leader. Hey, welcome. My standard answer to that particular criticism is to ask just how formal the command structure of Buffy's organization is? On "Angel", Angel was the boss, and he made the decisions and paid everyone's salaries, but if he'd slept with Cordy or Fred (or Wes or Gunn), would one of the main criticisms of it have been that he was abusing his position of authority? Even tho Satsu calls Buffy "ma'am" (and Buffy likes it ;D ), I've never gotten the impression that Buffy's position was so formal and powerful that she could make the other girls feel like she was putting that sort of pressure on them. The argument that Buffy was out-of-line by using someone who cared more about her than she did about them is more valid than the possible perceived sexual-harassment one, IMO...
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Post by Emmie on Jul 24, 2008 19:26:21 GMT -5
El Diablo, I think the Slayer structure of Buffy's unit based in Scotland is very different to Angel's Hyperion set up. The main theme of AtS s3 was about family and how during that season they bridged the gap to being more than co-workers and friends. Where as Buffy starts off as Satsu's teacher, leader and 'employer' without the intimacy and familial bonds present in AtS. (I'm assuming the slayers don't work for free, so Buffy is also financially responsible for Satsu.)
Buffy and Satsu's imbalance in power is demonstrated in the first arc when Buffy knocks Satsu down during a training session that included Leah and Rowena. Message = Buffy is in charge of these girls. Buffy is the teacher and the Slayer unit's leader. That seems undeniable. This didactic aspect to Buffy and Satsu's relationship remains present through 'A Beautiful Sunset' when the two patrol together and Satsu gets reprimanded for falling clumsily.
Buffy and Satsu's interactions from issues 1-11 are similar to a master and her best student. Considering the armed gear they now use and Xander's taking a command office, the dynamics of the Scotland Unit aren't as strictly laid out as in the US armed forces but there IS a clear pecking order. And Buffy is top Slayer dog.
There's a definite power conflict between Buffy and Satsu's positions, something which gets inverted when Buffy becomes the student in the bedroom scene of WatG I.
The season's theme of power and the questionable ramifications of its use are also relevant to how Satsu acquired command of the Tokyo Unit. She broke up with Buffy (not that they were officially together) and asked for command of the Tokyo squad. Buffy's acceding to Satsu's wishes at that exact moment can be interpreted as a lover's farewell gift. Not to say that Satsu isn't qualified, but the timing of this promotion looks questionable for this personal reason AND also raises my 'suspect Satsu' alarm since the Scotland castle is attacked in the next issue.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jul 25, 2008 2:17:30 GMT -5
I wasn't actually trying to draw a direct parallel between the two gangs at Slayer Central and Angel, Inc... but looking back at my original post, I can see where it came out sounding that way. My point was that it is possible to have an "at work" setting where your boss isn't someone who wields any sort of personal pressure over you, whether that pressure is real or just perceived. I don't see any evidence that Buffy is enforcing any type of strict discipline over her group. On the contrary--I like that she jokes around with them, makes comments about how great their hair looks. It's a big improvement over Speech-Giving-Buffy of S7, who did seem to be looking for that sort of respect at times, wanting the potentials to get in line and stay there. The difference now seems to be that these girls aren't potentials anymore--they're slayers, and she recognizes that. Her position now is much more "first among equals" than straight-out "boss". There is still a gap there between her and them, but it's not something that seems in any way forced upon the other girls. It probably just developed naturally, based on the difference in ages and levels of experience, and the fact that these girls are all coming into this together, and it's new for them, and they can bond with each other over that, but because Buffy and her gang have been at this so long and have such a tight bond of their own, there's a disconnect there. Not to mention, Buffy has always been someone who cuts people off and tries to keep things to herself. The original comparison to the team of Angel, Inc., or the Sunnydale-era Scoobies really isn't so far off, because in both cases, Angel and Buffy were the ones who made the decisions and gave the orders, and while their friends always respected their leadership positions, they never felt there was any sort of imbalance there on the personal level. And I don't think that's changed at all for Buffy this season, either, and that while maybe not all the girls have realized that, Satsu finally did. It finally hit her that this is not the military, Buffy's not demanding anyone call her "ma'am", and that in their off-hours, there's really no difference between Buffy and the rest of them. Xander has a leadership position, after all, and in the very first issue Renee was working directly under him there at command-central. She even called him "sir". Yet I don't seem to remember any criticism of their relationship being inappropriate because he was her "boss"... Not to say that Satsu isn't qualified, but the timing of this promotion looks questionable for this personal reason AND also raises my 'suspect Satsu' alarm since the Scotland castle is attacked in the next issue. In that scenario, Satsu would be the "man on the inside", I assume? So the question then is, was the missile attack meant to kill Buffy? It would seem not, because Twilight had the chance to eliminate her in #11 and didn't take it, so it seems unlikely that he'd change his mind just five issues later and decide to blow her up. Which means the timing of the missile hit was done very specifically to coincide with a time when he knew Buffy wasn't home, and wouldn't be suddenly coming home unexpectedly. So how would he have known that Buffy had left, if Satsu wasn't there anymore to keep him up-to-date on her movements? How would he have known that she was going to someplace as far away as New York, and wouldn't be dashing back thru the door because she forgot her wallet, just as the missile hit?
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Post by KingofCretins on Jul 25, 2008 20:04:51 GMT -5
I don't see any evidence that Buffy is enforcing any type of strict discipline over her group. On the contrary--I like that she jokes around with them, makes comments about how great their hair looks. It's a big improvement over Speech-Giving-Buffy of S7, who did seem to be looking for that sort of respect at times, wanting the potentials to get in line and stay there. How militaristically Buffy behaves isn't really the question or the answer to establishing the heirarchical structure in her organization. The fact that she no longer throws shovels at a roomful of scared people *or* pouts at her Watcher or friends to get her way is incidental -- she still gives orders, and expects those orders to be carried out. Others still wait to receive those orders and feel obliged to act on them. In 8.04, nobody chimed in to discuss their feelings or debate when Buffy announced Satsu was coming. It was settled. Nor did Satsu question Buffy or Xander's instructions during that mission. In 8.08, 8.09, Buffy didn't ask if anyone could get Giles on the phone if they had a sec. She ordered it. When she was done with him, she ordered that he be given whatever he wanted. She didn't offer anyone, Willow for instance, the opportunity to ask what was going on, or to give a counterargument -- she gave her order and left the room knowing it would be carried out. It *is* a heirarchical structure, not a council of equals, not a democracy. It's an army, whether they salute or not. I was all over it, I thought it created exactly the same type of problems and was annoyed that they were doing it with both the top personnel in the group. What we see evidence of is Buffy and Xander *knowing* what they are now, but not wanting to accept it. Willow has the best feel for the real situation when she explains to Satsu about Buffy's status, being a general in an army in which they (Willow includes herself, surprisingly) are merely soldiers. [/quote] Well, it wouldn't be the first time Twilight acted at least a little capriciously -- he says in as many words he hadn't planned on fighting Buffy and beat her up mainly on impulse to shut up her whining. But, that said, perhaps once Satsu was out of the BHC/BPR that was the go ahead to press his attack. He *may* have meant for Buffy to be killed, we can't assume he didn't. He did sound very much like a man prepared to kill her the next time he felt inclined in 8.11. There's a solid case to be made for Satsu as the mole/traitor, and I for one am hoping it's the case for the simple reason that it's infinitely preferable to Willow or Dawn or Xander. Satsu had Buffy "out of position" when the vampires came in 8.12. One could even argue that she engaged Buffy in the talk that made her vulnerable to Twilight in 8.11. And then she requests a transfer shortly before a big ass missile destroys the castle.
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Post by Emmie on Jul 25, 2008 20:45:31 GMT -5
I just see it as a fact that Buffy and Satsu are working in different power stratas. And the same is true for Xander and Renee. Buffy was certainly encouraging that relationship, but then Buffy also had the hook-up with Satsu. The fact that both Xander and Buffy were open to relationships with girls they are mentoring and in charge of - this just makes their judgment seem a bit dicey to me. Irresponsible.
As for it not being the military, well yeah it's not as rigid structurally. But there is a hierarchical structure set and I'd be hard-pressed to describe Buffy as anything other than the Slayer General. In fact, I've called her that in other posts. I can't think of how else to describe Buffy's global status other than the General of all these slayer units. Who else could just waltz into the Tokyo unit and take over? If she's only the "first among many", I think you're vastly understating her legendary status as well as the actual power of command she possesses.
It's not about what titles Buffy chooses to possess, it's about power. And she's the one in charge of 500 slayers.
The only legitimate criticism would be the lack of characters harping on Buffy's perceived favoritism for Satsu. That seems like lazy writing to me because the imbalance of power is there. It should have been explored if the door was being opened to an office/"mission" fling.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jul 25, 2008 22:21:18 GMT -5
There's a solid case to be made for Satsu as the mole/traitor, and I for one am hoping it's the case for the simple reason that it's infinitely preferable to Willow or Dawn or Xander. Go ahead and try to make it, then, because as of now, I think it's a pretty flimsy case based on paranoia (over Satsu's promotion) and one bit of coincidental timing (the missile hit). It's a theory concocted by people who are offended by the fact that she'd dare to sleep with Buffy, or who want it to be her because "better her than Willow/Dawn/Xander", or just because they simply don't like her. So she not only knew that she was going to be able to seduce Buffy into bed that night, but also knew exactly what time it was going to happen, and somehow got word to the vampires hours, maybe days ahead of time, to let them know when to make their move? And the better question is, why would she even need to bother? Even when Buffy found out about the robbery, while it was still in-progress, she wasn't able to do anything about it. As long as they still had Dracula's powers, they were pretty much unstoppable and invulnerable. Buffy could've padlocked herself in her room with the Scythe clutched tightly in her hands, and I think the vamps still would've gotten out of there with it. And is there any indication at all that the Japanese vampires had any contact with Twilight? Couldn't they just as easily have learned about the Scythe from Saga Vasuki, via Kumiko? If that's part of the "solid case" that can be made against her, are you sure you even wanna bother continuing? Are you actually serious? Unless maybe the "one" you're talking about who'd make that argument is someone other than you? Xander discovered the nest and told Buffy about it. Buffy chose Satsu to go with her. Buffy confronted her about her feelings at the start of the fight. Buffy did nearly all of the talking. What the heck did Satsu do that was suspicious?!? If you view that scene as possible evidence against her, then I'd say that you pretty obviously have a bias against her that's going to be fairly impervious to any sort of logic that attempts to prove it wrong, so in the face of that, it seems pretty much useless to try to argue the point. But it does mean that I'll get extra enjoyment out of the eventual reveal that it's not her, and that she's not in any way evil at all. You know, just like I'm gonna get an extra little chuckle out of Harth's buddy being Dru, and not "FDW", in a couple of weeks. Obviously, because the only way to avoid being killed by the missile is to be out of the country, right? She couldn't have... oh, I don't know... gone for a walk in the surrounding countryside right around the time it was due to hit? (I love the new emoticons... )
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Post by Emmie on Jul 25, 2008 23:18:20 GMT -5
Whoa El Diablo, getting a little hyped up there.
I'd hope that the mole was someone we'd actually recognize rather than an unknown person. Remember that most people used to think it was Renee til she was killed? Well the other most likely suspects left are Satsu or Andrew. Or it could be Leah or Rowena. Everyone else is just a nameless face.
And bringing up the interesting timing of Satsu's character progression that coincides with certain disasters...well it's coincidental but certainly very interesting. It makes Satsu look more guilty than any other character imo.
I'm giving Xander, Willow, and Dawn a pass. Who else is there to suspect that is as important as Satsu?
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Post by KingofCretins on Jul 25, 2008 23:21:57 GMT -5
So she not only knew that she was going to be able to seduce Buffy into bed that night, but also knew exactly what time it was going to happen, and somehow got word to the vampires hours, maybe days ahead of time, to let them know when to make their move? Well, since I assume most people don't plan their romantic trysts on an hourly basis, realistically she'd have only needed to know the night. I'm not a spy myself or in the whole special ops game, but I tend to figure that you don't pass up *any* plausible advantage. Their completely coinciding agendas, but no direct evidence. Just enough to have healthy suspicion. A fact I've cunningly concealed by the fact that I've said openly and repeatedly I hope she's the mole/traitor -- fine detective work, el diablo, kudos. My stance hasn't changed, it's infinitely better to have Satsu, the lovable new character, be a traitor and enemy than any Scooby. I honestly think there's something deeply wrong with someone who'd *rather* a Scooby betray Buffy in some permanent and substantial way than the relative nobody newbie. Why don't you actually spell out a better case for someone else, then, instead of just sniping? By transferring to Tokyo, she's so far out of sight and mind that her cover never comes into question.
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Post by wenxina on Jul 25, 2008 23:36:02 GMT -5
Why don't you actually spell out a better case for someone else, then, instead of just sniping? By transferring to Tokyo, she's so far out of sight and mind that her cover never comes into question. First off... could we all take it down a notch? Thank you. Secondly, in El Diablo's defense... there isn't a case to be made for anyone else... YET. Emmie: True, the list of named characters with enough face time is growing shorter. But considering that we're only nearly halfway there, there's still time to rebuild that list. Or, maybe the mole is a faceless character... we don't really need it to be someone we know. Just that it's someone who knows enough about Buffy. Unless of course, the betrayer and the mole are the same person. Right now, I'd say that it can swing either way.
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Post by Emmie on Jul 25, 2008 23:47:31 GMT -5
That's true, Xi. But if we find out Leah and Rowena are absolutely dead in the next issue - and I'm talking so dead even a Joss ret-con won't bring them back - then the only likely suspect for the Scotland mole is Satsu.
I'm still not seeing the logic behind any of the core being the mole. And even Andrew has been in Italy til WatG, so my proposing him doesn't make much sense either.
Besides, considering that the mole was based in Scotland and Scotland's base has been blown all to hell, shouldn't all the pertinent evidence have been in these issues and not later on?
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Post by KingofCretins on Jul 25, 2008 23:57:11 GMT -5
I'm also worried about the possibility of dodgy writing in the set-up here. This already happened once with the kiss reveal when nobody remembered to even *unambiguously* establish that Satsu was in the room to give a kiss, when we'd last seen her outside.
The reason I bring this up is because in 8.09, the report by Lt. Molter included the fact that Giles and Faith were out of the game. Unless one of them called *back* to the BHC to let someone know that, *and* it circulated around for a mole to hear, the only people that *could* have given Molter than information are Faith or Giles, which really means just Giles, since Faith was nowhere near any of this until Giles brought her in.
So, in a sense, we already have an argument that if it's not Giles, they've already denied us a fair opportunity to figure it out... again. Granted, I'd prefer to be even a little cheated on the mystery than for it to actually *be* Giles or one of the other main characters.
That's another factor... the only thing that we know for *fact* that the mole has done is make that report to Molter. That's enough for them to be a villain, since the contents of that report prove that the mole was aware of the possibility of Buffy being killed. But we don't know for sure that the mole has had anything to do with the vampire attack in 8.12, Twilight's attack in 8.11, or the missile attack. It's just an available and reasonable inference.
Which leads me to another point I was hammering out with Emmie -- we don't know that the mole is even still alive. Maybe killed in the missile attack? How about killed *before* the missile attack. It could have been Renee. She was highly placed in the chain of communication, always in the command center. She had Xander's ear, obviously, and spent more time with the higher-ups than with other Slayers. Her death may have just been a random event that Twilight didn't anticipate. I know many of us back around 8.09 theorized her on the basis that perhaps she is a relation to Lt. Molter and was trapped in the same kind of Faustian deal that Roden was -- her survival (or survival for daughter/niece, offered to Molter) in exchange for information.
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Post by wenxina on Jul 26, 2008 0:15:45 GMT -5
That's true, Xi. But if we find out Leah and Rowena are absolutely dead in the next issue - and I'm talking so dead even a Joss ret-con won't bring them back - then the only likely suspect for the Scotland mole is Satsu. I'm still not seeing the logic behind any of the core being the mole. And even Andrew has been in Italy til WatG, so my proposing him doesn't make much sense either. Besides, considering that the mole was based in Scotland and Scotland's base has been blown all to hell, shouldn't all the pertinent evidence have been in these issues and not later on? And I'm not suggesting that it's any of the core Scoobies that's ratting Buffy out. In fact, I'll be the first to admit that I've not actually given that much thought to it... I'm way too lazy to play the speculation game, as apparently, a circumstantial case can be made for several characters, according to KoC. The pertinent evidence doesn't necessarily have to be in these issues; if it's a faceless reveal, or a character introduced later on. All you need is Twilight to blab out the details of his insidious plots. True, kinda cheap, but we're reading into this as if we're 100% certain that Joss is writing a whodunnit. I think the betrayer can be treated in such a fashion, since it's supposed to be the "closest and most unexpected", but the mole doesn't necessarily have to be. Of course, I'm speaking from the perspective that the mole and the betrayer mentioned by Robin are two separate individuals. Heck, I'm not even that sure that the betrayer is human... since it is BtVS.
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Post by xmadxscientistx on Jul 26, 2008 0:27:35 GMT -5
The important thing is that this is over. Whether or not there are consequences, I suppose we will soon find out.
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Post by Emmie on Jul 26, 2008 0:36:45 GMT -5
Well yeah it's over and I'm not emotionally crazed over Buffy/Satsu anymore. Or rather emotionally-thrown. But this has been the most interesting discussion we've had in the past week or so. Barring the Centaur Dawn/phases debate.
Somebody wanna stir the pot?
Xi? U wanna fight?
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Post by xmadxscientistx on Jul 26, 2008 1:19:34 GMT -5
I find it interesting that so many had a problem with Buffy having a gay relationship and yet no one mentioned that she was also in a multicultural relationship. Good to see Buffy people are more enlightened than Dracula.
Not that I don't love him, because I do.
...xacula forever...
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jul 26, 2008 2:15:38 GMT -5
First of all, I'd like to buy everyone here (who's of age) a beer, to lighten the mood before things get too tense. So, the first pitcher of Black Frost is on me. So she not only knew that she was going to be able to seduce Buffy into bed that night, but also knew exactly what time it was going to happen, and somehow got word to the vampires hours, maybe days ahead of time, to let them know when to make their move? Well, since I assume most people don't plan their romantic trysts on an hourly basis, realistically she'd have only needed to know the night. I assume the same thing, but that doesn't change my original point: she would've had to have known ahead of time that she'd (probably) be sleeping with Buffy that night, which would have been quite a presumption for her to make, since that hadn't happened between them yet, and as far as we know, they didn't even have a date planned that night. And of course, as many, many fans pointed out after #12 came out, Buffy had shown no overt same-sex tendencies before that, and even after everything Buffy said about Satsu in #11 ("you're hot, and you smell good"), they were still stunned by what happened. So that would show quite a different opinion of Buffy by the character of Satsu compared to those many legions of fans--on one hand, the fans can't believe Buffy would ever do that, and meanwhile, on the other hand, Satsu's telling her evil cronies, "Yeah, I'm gonna be boning her on Night X, so that's when you should make your move." Kind of far-fetched. In that case, I'll be the first one to jump up and scream "Sloppy writing!!" You take a major event like that, reveal it to be an evil bit of subterfuge, and then give the reason for that subterfuge as nothing more than "better safe than sorry"? :unsure: Given that a direct link can be established from Toru to Kumiko to Saga Vasuki to the Scythe, there's no reason at this point to overspeculate our way into trying to create a link between Toru/Kumiko and Twilight, and to further overspeculate that Twilight has any specific knowledge of the Scythe's powers and its role in creating all the new slayers. Let's not make this more complicated than it is. Please forgive me then for actually liking the "relative nobody newbie" and coming to her defense (she and Renee are the first new "Buffy" characters introduced since Andrew in S6 that I'm really a fan of). But also please don't try to imply that I ever said it was an either/or situation: Satsu or Xander/Dawn/Willow. Are those really our only four options? There's no room for "5--None of the Above"? Why don't you actually spell out a better case for someone else, then, instead of just sniping? By transferring to Tokyo, she's so far out of sight and mind that her cover never comes into question. ...in El Diablo's defense... there isn't a case to be made for anyone else... YET. What he said. ^^ That was my point, and why I disagreed with your post, because there is no "solid" case to be made for anyone yet--including Satsu! We simply don't have enough information. It could be Satsu. It could be Leah or Rowena, even if they did get blown up in the castle. It could be Renee. Being dead doesn't get them off the hook yet. In fact, if you held a gun to my head and forced me to choose, I'd probably go with Renee, for no other reason than that history's shown that any girl who has the hots for Xander is probably evil and/or a (current or former) demon of some sort. For that matter, we don't even know yet if the mole is a person. Since we're all throwing females out there as suspects, I assume we're all taking the "man" part of "man on the inside" as a possible figure of speech, so we could also take that as a figure of speech in another way: that it's not even necessarily a living, breathing being. For all we know, there was a hidden microphone and camera planted in one of the decorative suits of armor throughout the castle ('cause castles have to have decorative suits of armor ). And if it is a person, there's no rule that says it has to be a character we've already been introduced to. Remember "Earshot"? Or "Harm's Way"? There were, what, about a hundred slayers living at the castle? Plus at least a few Wiccans? They all have to be included on the list, too. Lastly, the mole and the betrayer don't have to be the same person. If Satsu's the mole then she's definitely not the betrayer, 'cause, sorry, but a couple of rolls in the sack don't elavate her to the "closest" to Buffy, ahead of the likes of Dawn, Willow, and Xander (and maybe even Giles, in spite of everything that's happened with him recently). Satsu's betrayal wouldn't be more "unexpected" than it would be from any of those characters. If you wanna suspect Satsu, go right ahead. I think you'll be wrong, but there is a case to be made for her. It's just not what I'd call a "solid" one... :smart: The offer's still good, BTW: next round's on me...
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Post by Emmie on Jul 26, 2008 2:21:18 GMT -5
*Walks sleepily into El Diablo's Wall o' Text* Ow, mommy this mortal wound is all itchy! But to the point, Satsu is the least flimsy of all the flimsy kooky suspects. So she ranks high on my speculation meter. Meaning she's the most worthy of debate-y discussion about the mole, in my opinion. Cheers! *drinks mug of Black Frost then transforms* ----> * El Diablo, I think King also agrees with you as do I that it could just as easily have been Renee who was the "man inside". We're all friends here, no?
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