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Post by KingofCretins on May 9, 2008 0:13:55 GMT -5
Oddly enough I feel almost completely certain that the idea that Renee might not have been killed or could be saved *won't even be raised* during 8.15 and that her being dead was meant to be just as obvious as it looked.
I'm not expecting a Buffy/Satsu kiss in the next one. I think Allie was making a general "you thought that was wild, wait to see what we have coming" remark and not a "the 8.15 thing is specifically about Buffy/Satsu" remark. I have a hunch that 8.15 is going to show us conflict of some kind -- either a traitor reveal or a more personal kind of fight.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
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"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on May 9, 2008 1:31:33 GMT -5
I'm not expecting a Buffy/Satsu kiss in the next one. I think Allie was making a general "you thought that was wild, wait to see what we have coming" remark and not a "the 8.15 thing is specifically about Buffy/Satsu" remark. I have a hunch that 8.15 is going to show us conflict of some kind -- either a traitor reveal or a more personal kind of fight. I wasn't really going by Allie's remark so much as just a gut feeling--Xander and Renee got their moment in this issue, and Buffy and Satsu will get theirs in the next one. Just a hunch. What happened in #12 was clearly something that wasn't done just for the shock value of that one issue alone. That should've been obvious even at the time to anyone who knows anything about Joss, but for anyone who doubted, the proof that there's still more to their story is in the way it's been kept alive in each of the two following issues, even in the midst of everything else that's going on. I have no idea what's going to come out of it, eventually, but it's one of the fun things to speculate on when the "Who is Twilight?" topic turns stale. You could absolutely be correct about the final panel of #15 having nothing to do with Buffy & Satsu. In fact, I'm glad you raised the possibility, because if it turns out you're right, I'll be less disappointed than if I spent more than a month waiting for it, expecting it to be that, and instead it was something completely different. I still believe that it's probably something to do with them, tho, because the question he was responding to was about them, and after the surprise of turning the page and seeing the two of them in bed together, what could possibly top that in terms of generating shock and buzz among the fans? The only thing I can come up with is Twilight taking off his mask and revealing that he's Angel or Spike. Even revealing that he's Riley or Giles isn't gonna top the of the Buffy/Satsu moment in #12, IMO. You know why I realized I loved the moment between the two of them in this issue? Because I feel like Satsu, in that one brief scene, managed to elavate herself to a level where she's equal with the rest of Buffy's inner-circle now, and that from this point forward, the criticisms of this wide disparity of power between the two of them are no longer valid. She's not an underling anymore. Yes, Buffy's still the boss, but I'd equate her "inner circle" (Xander, Willow, Dawn, Giles, maybe even Andrew) to the gang at Angel, Inc., where if Angel had ever slept with Cordy or Fred (or Wes or Gunn ), the problems people would have had with it would've been loud and many, but the employer/employee, boss/underling factor wouldn't have been among them. And to me, Satsu just put herself into that higher group where, outside the 'office', she and Buffy are on a pretty even level now... --edit-- Actually, I suppose Buffy, Willow, or Xander getting killed would certainly top the Buffy/Satsu moment for pure , as well. We know that Buffy and Willow are still alive in #16, so maybe the final "Wait'll you see it!" panel of #15 is Xander getting killed? That would fit the "massive hit" descrip, too, (tho maybe not the part about it being a massive hit to the slayers). But I don't see it happening. In spite of the fact that Buffy's died twice already, the core three seem almost bullet-proof...
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postitnote
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Willow Rox my Sox Off!
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Post by postitnote on May 9, 2008 1:55:53 GMT -5
The first person Xander tries to get with after Anya (that we know of for sure) gets killed immediately...and Cordy dead...all his former girlfriends (not just flukes) and potential love interests are dead (especially the demony ones like Lissa and Miss French). Do you think there's a point where Xander will finally get so bitter and angry about this that he starts to blame it on his association with Buffy, or even Buffy's leadership skills???
On that same note, do you think he'll resent Buffy for trying to put Satsu out of the fold but didn't do the same for the others like Renee?? Do you think this will be the turning point and Xander really will betray her?? That this is the final domino for him??
I think Buffy will kiss Satsu...or we'll discover how the whole thing in #12 went down...but I can't decide whether it will be because she's saying goodbye or it's a shippy moment.
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Post by KingofCretins on May 9, 2008 5:28:28 GMT -5
I don't think Joss is insane enough to kill off one of the three main characters. At least I hope he isn't. But even if he is, he's showman enough to know that that would have to be this intensely well-earned moment, not as casualty to a MOTW, even a nasty one like Toru.
I've got a couple thoughts for the 8.15 reveal -- first being that it will reveal Satsu as the traitor, either to the camera or have her revealed to the gang as the traitor. The other thought I have is that it could be 'shippy... but Buffy/Xander. Desperate, grief and trauma-driven smoochies that don't answer questions, just raise them, like the first LoVe kiss on "Veronica Mars".
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barryshaft
Novice Witch
Sometimes I shouldn't say words...[Mo0:0]
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Post by barryshaft on May 9, 2008 6:27:30 GMT -5
Ok, first things first, I happily eat my words about Dawn not actually making it to Japan and reaking havoc... Thank god I was wrong there cause that was definately hilarious.
I agree with a lot of what has been said, this is by far one of the best issues of the season so far. It so perfectly blended all the greatest aspects of the show (action, humour, angst, tragedy, character-developing moments) in a way that none of the issues have done yet. This may actually have been my favourite issue, though A Beautiful Sunset and No Future For You Part I and IV are currently occupying the top slots.
I can't believe none of us saw Renee's death coming...we should be so used to this by now right? But even still it was so ridiculously effective that I couldn't have possibly been more shocked. And no, with the way it played out (and from a writing perspective) I don't think there's even a possibility of Renee not actually being dead. It's the most logical progression to the story and thankfully the writers have been backing away from their "Willow can just use magic and fix everything" habits. This could very possibly go very dark places.
I think it's likely that Xander will go after Toru, and I definately see his character darkening a bit in the coming days.
Anyways, awesome issue. Pretty much perfect. 10/10 from me.
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Post by wenxina on May 9, 2008 10:08:36 GMT -5
The first person Xander tries to get with after Anya (that we know of for sure) gets killed immediately...and Cordy dead...all his former girlfriends (not just flukes) and potential love interests are dead (especially the demony ones like Lissa and Miss French). Do you think there's a point where Xander will finally get so bitter and angry about this that he starts to blame it on his association with Buffy, or even Buffy's leadership skills??? Xander has already questioned Buffy's ability to lead a couple of times before. When Angel comes back in S3, he's the most vocal about his displeasure, and pretty much tells Buffy that her judgment is flawed when it comes to Angel. Also, in S7, after he loses an eye, he does hold her partly accountable... again, calling her foolhardy, and saying something to the effect of not seeing the point of her plan, and that it must be on his blind side. But his faith in her has been pretty solid for the most part. And if he didn't blame her for Anya's death, why for Renee's? If nothing else, Renee was more equipped for fighting than Anya was.
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Post by Rebecca on May 9, 2008 11:54:21 GMT -5
Jeez, I just finished S7 again, and I still thought it was really idiotic of Giles to say that Buffy needed to make hard decisions, which may get girls killed, and then question her leading authority when she does so. It also pissed me off when every one got on her for being insensitive and emotionally cut off when they knew that she was in that position where the people she loved may get hurt (Xander) or killed (Anya) because of the decisions she would need to make. Anywho, sidebar aside, I agree with wenxina that while Xander does question her ability to lead every-so-often, he has never blamed her for the loss of any of his love interests. I don't see why he would suddenly go the Willow route and again isolate Buffy even further. That would really feel like a S7 repeat, with everyone against her, which I could really go without. Bring back the scoobies!! What I think will happen, if Renee is indeed dead, that Xander will be depressed for a while, but he will cling to Buffy and possibly beef up and become uber-Xander, ready to kick ass!! Like some people predicted earlier, Xander should kill Toru for killing Renee, but I really don't see that happening... yet.
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Whedon Fan
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Post by Whedon Fan on May 9, 2008 14:47:05 GMT -5
Renee is dead, she got the scythe right through her chest, she would be ded in a matter of minutes. The tokoyo vamps are going to take a time out to let Willow heal her so then sh sis going to die and they won't bring her back to life. We have seen and been told that it is wrong to dod so and usually never goes well. I'll be mega dissapointed in the writers if they bring her back after that, it will ironily not feel realistic.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
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"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on May 9, 2008 16:30:02 GMT -5
Renee is dead, she got the scythe right through her chest, she would be ded in a matter of minutes. The tokoyo vamps are going to take a time out to let Willow heal her so then sh sis going to die and they won't bring her back to life. Willow healed herself in what appeared to be just a matter of seconds after Warren pretty much lobotomized her. Even if Kumiko shows up for a big witch fight, I think Willow would have enough time to do her thing and save Renee first...
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Post by buffyfan21 on May 9, 2008 17:30:20 GMT -5
I posted this at another board I frequent. Thought I'd share it with you guys here as well. My thoughts on issue #14:
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Post by themaleslayer on May 9, 2008 17:33:18 GMT -5
Anyone notice that the last words "WELCOME TO TOKYO" are arrainged differently in the actual first page of the newest issue?
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underbuffysspell
Potential Slayer
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Post by underbuffysspell on May 9, 2008 19:05:19 GMT -5
My thoughts on the issue....I LOVED IT. I mean, I even 'peeked' at a couple spoliers and saw that Renee was stabbed. However, that didn't bother me much because I haven't really liked Renee. That all changed however when I read the scene shared between her and the Xan-man. I had finally started liking her and then I saw the last page and I shrieked a 'manly' shriek. True...Sad...But true.. I really loved this issue. The comic book TRUELY feels like the television show now. I also loved how in the scene where Buffy is setting Aiko's body down...the Japanese sign reads, in katakana, "Gojira"...That means Godzilla. I thought that was H-I-LARIOUS!! I loved how Dracula became jealous when Xander and Renee were gettin' the PDA going. That was priceless. However, next to Renee's 'death', what got me the most was Dawn poppin' into Tokyo. THAT WAS HILARIOUS! "Hi..I mean..ROAR!!!!!!!!!!" Even though this issue has made me like Renee, I don't want Willow to bring her back. That would ruin a lot for me. Because...NATURAL DEATH!! HULLO! The one thing that seems too comic book-y is Willow's AMAZINGLY MAGICAL powers... I cannot stand this wait....going to read the issues again to avoid withdrawals. BUT I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE NFFY TPB.
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Bennyboi
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[Mo0:0]
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Post by Bennyboi on May 10, 2008 12:08:53 GMT -5
OMG has anybody noticed that the beige jacket that Buffy is wearing towards the end of this issue resembles the coat she wore in Dirty girls? I know it cant be the same one but maybe it was put in there as a hint as to what would happen if anybody caught onto it?
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
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Post by Joe on May 10, 2008 12:24:37 GMT -5
Ok, so I read it and I loved it. I think Wolves at the Gate is my favorite arc yet. It sucks that Renee died though. :'(But I loved, loved, loved. How they worked together in this one as the Scooby Gang.
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Smashed
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Post by Smashed on May 10, 2008 12:28:01 GMT -5
OMG has anybody noticed that the beige jacket that Buffy is wearing towards the end of this issue resembles the coat she wore in Dirty girls? I know it cant be the same one but maybe it was put in there as a hint as to what would happen if anybody caught onto it? I thought the exact same thing! It looks very similar!
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faith0tvs
Novice Witch
I am the Slayer ask me How[Mo0:4]
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Post by faith0tvs on May 10, 2008 14:38:59 GMT -5
Am i the only one who saw gthat b was wearing a Gizmo(Layala's pet in futurama) tshirt?
Unrealistic? This is the Buffyverse nothing is real :b .Willow could pull that rabbit out of her hat , she's that powerful also itwouldnt be that interesting to see a Darth Xander for we ahve seen his groomy side and it wont be any good for the story
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Post by Rebecca on May 10, 2008 15:01:49 GMT -5
I did see the shirt, but I didn't recognize it as Nibbler (Gizmo is from Gremlins). I thought it might have been Son of Godzilla. Edit: Images below: Ok, crappy image of Son of Godzilla, but it was the best I could do on short notice
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Smashed
Junior Vampire Slayer
[Mo0:3]
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Post by Smashed on May 10, 2008 15:29:11 GMT -5
I karama'd you for that, touched. Nice find.
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Post by Rebecca on May 10, 2008 15:35:52 GMT -5
Thanks Smashed!!
My question is: are we getting hints that "Godzilla" (meaning Dawn) is with child? in fact, a son? who could be the prince they have to save?
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Post by themaleslayer on May 10, 2008 16:12:05 GMT -5
Thanks Smashed!! My question is: are we getting hints that "Godzilla" (meaning Dawn) is with child? in fact, a son? who could be the prince they have to save? I prefer the term Dawnzilla And you could be right about that theory.
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