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Post by wenxina on Jun 4, 2008 21:14:55 GMT -5
Assuming that the knife that Buffy was wielding didn't magically become a stake, it's possible that Kumiko survived. However, if the knife severed her spine... that would make her go poof, which would make more sense since the last shot of her shows dust, or at least what looks like dust. Loved that Dracula sacrificed his powers... in retrospect, this has been as much a character arc for Dracula as much as it has been for Xander. While it's true that Dracula finally empowered Xander, I really liked how it came full circle when it was his concern for Xander that brought Dracula back to his former glory. No more tricks and pageantry, and yet, he's totally badass! Definitely a more worthy image of such an iconic character. Also loved the poetic justice in how the crystal/lens/portal (Drac calls it a portal) is also the key to reversing the vampires' powers. Interesting thing about Drac's sword, and by proxy, the Scythe... every bit of information about it kinda helps push the mythology along. Gotta say that if you're a Satsu conspiracy-theorist... you'll probably be going ape feces right now that she's now the new field leader for Japan. Girl's moving up...
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Post by wenxina on Jun 4, 2008 21:30:46 GMT -5
Drac was awesome in this issue, and Andrew actually serve a purpose. Drew Goddard might be a hit or miss writer, but I am glad he hit it on the head with WaTG. However continuity was never Goddard's strong point, and the issue has some wierd errors. 1. How Slow is Satsu falling? She had to have hovered in the air for a while while Willow and Buffy talked. A few words, cool, but that had to have been 30-40 seconds at least. Face it... Tokyo's got some really tall buildings. 2. Dawn shouldn't be strong enough to puch own buildings or rip the heads off of giant robots. She punched a castle and hurt her hand in Scotland, she is not supposed to have proportional strength. Either that or blame those cheap Japanese products. I don't see how this is really a continuity error. If she was strong enough to punch a wall down in Scotland (and those walls are THICK!), then she can rip the head off a robot. And hey, the cheap products come from CHINA not Japan. Check the price tag on the PS3s if you wanna argue. 3. In the end when it says: "Leah to Command" Leah is clearly not speaking and standing right next to Satsu. Rowena is the one on the ground. Of course I suppose there COULD be two slayers named Leah high up in the command structure, but I doubt it. That puzzled me too... glad I wasn't getting names names mixed up. . If Drac was turned Normal, shouldn't he look like an Old Man since that is how he looks without any glamors on him? Maybe... or maybe it's the glamor that reflects his state of mind. Vampires stay young eternally, unless of course in the rare case of the Master, where his face had progressed to be more reflective of the demon within. Other notes: Kumiko isn't a Vampire, she's a witch. Assuming that vampires can't depower themselves, with the sword, it stands that they can't empower themselves either. Plus, knife to the back is nothing but an inconvenience to a vampire. If you're alive, it hurts a lot more. Disagree, based on skin tone. However, I concede that it's never been shown either way definitively, except for maybe the fact that she looks like she's dusted in the final shot of her, as I just pointed out. True, it was a knife to the back, but as long as the knife severs the spine (right where the neck is), it'll probably work... a technical decapitation? Yeah, it doesn't look like it, but who's to say that Buffy didn't slice upwards after plunging the blade into her back. But in any case, there's dust... so unless Kumiko's a dust pinata, I'll say vamp. Dracula have a soul? He did mention the fact that he risked his 'soul' to gain his powers and legend tells that he was cursed with Vampirism. Maybe the curse was like, Angel to make him care, the problem was, Vlad Tepes was a muderous bastard BEFORE he became a vamp. Or he could have gotten his powers before he died. Since the vampire retains all memories of the host, it wouldn't be hard to carry that knowledge into the unlife. Ok, I can Buy Xander surviving the Ambush because Buffy ordered the girls to protect him, AND Drac was there. I can't buy Andrew making his way to the roof against magi-vamps when there were only two other slayers besides Buffy in the room with him according to issue #14. Unless he too needs to be added to the list of people who are better in a fight than Xander. There were only two other Slayers at first, but more girls appear in the later sequences, meaning that they probably made their way up at the first sign of trouble. Didn't really bother me... he probably ran and hid in a corner. he survived a battle with uber-vamps and Bringers... I think a few vampires wouldn't be too hard. How many slayers HAD to have died in this op? Plenty... if you're as morbid as I am and constantly study the deaths all around. But hey, cest la vie... as Buffy said, "We're vampire slayers"... the life of a Slayer is hardly peaceful, no?
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Post by hitnrun017 on Jun 4, 2008 21:44:20 GMT -5
I finally got the last page, I just assumed it was Dracula talking about his journey home, but stupid me didn't realize it's also about what's coming next. Seems like this going to be Buffy's last night of true fun/pleasure, and the story starts here, it's going to be long and hard.
I also realized that Dracula saying goodbye to Xander is pretty much exactly like Xander saying goodbye to Dracula in Antique. Both leave each other in a despressed state, alone on a bench.
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Melissa
Rogue Demon Hunter
I'm gonna be a fireman when the floods roll back.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 428
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Post by Melissa on Jun 4, 2008 21:45:57 GMT -5
Definitely a good issue. I liked #14 more though, I thought it flowed better. MechaDawn was pure awesomeness. The Buffy/Willow exchange was great. I was having trouble following which Japanese vampire was which. I can't even call them by name like everyone else cause I have no idea who they are.
I liked the foreshadowy ending. Much like what Tara( speaking for the First Slayer) said in 'Restless' at the end of Season 4.
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Post by buffystar on Jun 4, 2008 22:03:37 GMT -5
I don't have the issue since I always get the TPB collection, so I don't mind spoilers. But since I didn't read it, did any slayers loose their powers?
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Post by wenxina on Jun 4, 2008 22:10:45 GMT -5
Erm... no. Can't say any of them did.
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underbuffysspell
Potential Slayer
Seize the day, 'Cause tomorrow, you might be dead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wizw5VqvXI8[Mo0:0
Posts: 187
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Post by underbuffysspell on Jun 4, 2008 22:12:53 GMT -5
Okay. I got my issue earlier and I LOVED IT. It was amazing. I was extremey sad to see Renee go because during this arc I really started to like her because she was finally getting a 'spotlight' per se.
MechaDawn was hilarious. I loved the tail part to emphasize the Godzilla joke. I still laugh when I look back at that panel in #14. Anyways, "My name is Dawn...I cry a lot..." I was so weak.
I too felt that every character had something to contribute, sometimes it doesn't feel that way. This arc truly felt like it was a 'Conclusion' just like the first page says.
I would like to know more about this Saga Vasuki...is she that snake thing that showed up in #10 and then twice in #15?
I wonder what her purpose is...
And I'm also wondering... WHERE ARE AMY AND WARREN??? It's been TWO whole arcs since we've last seen them... And Twilight...
I'm thinking...if Kumiko lived, and she hasn't already, she'll side with Twilight. So that'll give him two very talented witches.
I still think that the woman in the #17 variant is Dru or Dark Will.
Also, that scene with Buff and Will was hilarious!!
I feel so bad for Xander...I wonder what's in store for his character next...
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Post by KingofCretins on Jun 4, 2008 23:21:57 GMT -5
I think Kumiko is a witch *and* a vampire -- the two aren't mutually exclusive. Aside from the references to her wanting Aiko's body for herself, there's also the fact that she did the exact same foggy poof thing that the others did in 8.12. Whether stabbed or staked, she could have survived. Even if Buffy had staked her, it was several minutes before the powers were stripped, so she would have just been able to reform herself. Dracula came off awesome in this issue -- - Literally carving up Toru effortlessly. I like the reminder that there's a reasonable difference between a legendary warrior-turned-vampire and some-schmuck-turned-vampire.
- Offering Xander the kill. No words necessary on either side.
- The respectful distance he kept as Xander grieved.
- Offering to assist in seeing to Renee.
- As close as he could ever get to apologizing for the mind control crap.
The way Xander killed Toru reminded me quite a bit of both how Wes acted when he stabbed Gunn and how Connor killed Jasmine. It's different, obviously, since those were very intimate betrayals of sorts, but the sadness verging on lack of any affect at all when the sudden violence is carried out... wow. It's intense because it *wasn't* fury and rage and vengeance driving him. Any fans of the "The Dark Tower"? Read Buffy's (and Satsu's) last orders in the battle... the Slayers have become something far more dangerous in how they deal out justice -- they've become Gunslingers.
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Post by Wyndam on Jun 4, 2008 23:31:10 GMT -5
Finally got to sit down and read the new issue, and I absolutely loved it. It may be my favorite arc yet, although I am still madly in love with "No Future for You."
I am still laughing about Mecha-Dawn; everytime I think about it I start cracking up. Similar to the T-Rex in Angel #5, which is still cracking me up to this day.
The stuff with Willow is certainly interesting, and the fact that the snake lady / Saga Vesuki made a reference to Willow thinking she could stay away. Sounds to me like Willow did something bad around Saga (perhaps steal some power?). So it will be interesting to see where this story goes next, especially since it seems as if Willow was summoning her at the end.
I'm still more or less "meh" about Satsu. I like that she is able to stand up to Buffy, but I am also glad that she seems to be taking her leave.
Also, poor, poor Xander. I really feel just horrible for the guy, although I feel like this will open up even more doors for Xander development. It was nice to actually see him kill something again.
Dracula also had just some outstanding development throughout this whole arc, and I am sad to see him go. Buffy usually always has a unique vampire on her team, so I was actually hoping he'd stick around. Ah well.
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Post by millenium062 on Jun 5, 2008 1:00:52 GMT -5
I too found this issue interesting, but it left me with one question? What exactly was this "massive hit" that we were promised? I dont think it was Renee's death, could it be a literal massive hit, like Dawn being literally hit by the Dawn-zilla monster robot?
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Post by hunter233 on Jun 5, 2008 2:28:04 GMT -5
Pretty sure the hit was Renee's death. Especially considering what it's done to Xander.
Anyway, awesome issue. As has been mentioned previously, everyone got their bit of the spotlight. Loved seeing Andrew get his, particularly. I've always loved him, and it was great to get to see him seriously contribute for once. Dawn too.
Did Saga Vasuki's line to Willow remind anyone else of Dracula's speech to Buffy back in S5? "You think you know who you are? What's to come?" I found it really interesting to see that parallel come up in reference to Willow here.
And what about Drac's little revelation about the Scythe when he was talking about his sword? "It's one of the ancient relics. Bound with demon spirit -- like your scythe." I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of that here. Think there's any chance that "demon spirit" of the Scythe is Saga Vasuki? It would explain how Willow first came into contact with her (casting the spell back in S7), and maybe even explain what that "hot tip" that leads them to Manhattan is. That panel where Saga talks to her shows her all wrapped around what looks to me like Manhattan. Not to mention that panel shows the Scythe itself, which ... why would it show it there if she wasn't connected to it? Last but not least, It's apparent that Kumiko learned from Saga. Perhaps that's why she knows how to reverse Willow's spell.
What else do I have to say without repeating what's been said a bunch already? Hmmm.
I too agree that Kumiko is likely both a vamp and a witch. I think her forming out of fog cements that, as these Drac abilities seem to be vamp exclusive. Could be wrong, but I think it's at least the most likely scenario.
I gotta disagree with the guy that said it was bad to have Drac and Xander making quips toward the end. I thought that was beautiful, and for me really cemented their odd, but strong relationship. Drac could see how far Xander's mood had darkened, and like a true friend, he did his best to lighten it a little. I believe that Dracula was very intentionally being silly there to try to help his friend, and for me it was one of the highlights of the comic.
Oh, and I totally agree with whoever said Renee's death is gonna bring back the flood of post-Anya depression too. I think that's a good part of why he was hit so hard by this (I mean, they hadn't even had a date yet). I can't wait to see where that goes, and I think it'll be an interesting way to let us see him deal with that grief even though it's over a year after her death.
Not much to say in the way of "bad" about this issue. It was easily one of the best of the series thus far. Mecha-Dawn was perhaps a tad silly, but totally worth it. My biggest problem was what I saw as a big continuity error, even though I understand its necessity from a literary perspective. Why couldn't Willow just heal Renee? She seems to have this extraordinary healing power, you don't think she'd use it to save her best friend's gf? I actually thought, at first, that that was why Drac was demanding that Buffy get Willow, which would have been a cool little development. He obviously disliked Renee, but he would still do everything he could to save her for Xander's happiness. Ah well. I guess maybe she was dead too fast for Will to do anything? That's what I'm gonna have to stick with, anyway.
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
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Post by dane5by5 on Jun 5, 2008 2:29:17 GMT -5
I too found this issue interesting, but it left me with one question? What exactly was this "massive hit" that we were promised? I dont think it was Renee's death, could it be a literal massive hit, like Dawn being literally hit by the Dawn-zilla monster robot? I'm pretty certain the "massive hit" was Renee's death. Although you could take it both ways. Then it has punny goodness.
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
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Post by dane5by5 on Jun 5, 2008 2:32:12 GMT -5
This was definitely my favourite arc so far. It had all the aspects that made Buffy such a great show. Humor, death, sadness, fight scenes and witty remarks. Drew Goddard is an amazing writer.
The art was also fantastic. Georges best work yet. I loved the Buffy/Satsu scene near the end. Perfect. I also thought the colouring was really great too.
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twilightbass
Common Vampire
Night falls soon enough[Mo0:20]
Posts: 58
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Post by twilightbass on Jun 5, 2008 5:01:35 GMT -5
I just read the issue. Wow. Best one so far (even though I've been saying that about each new issue for the last six months). I can't help feeling bad about Xander, he looks really sad, and his last scene was absolutely heartbreaking.
Anyway, this arc was just perfect, I'm really looking forward for Time Of Your Life, but this is just going to be almost impossible to overcome. Drew Goddard's a genius.
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Post by Emmie on Jun 5, 2008 5:19:49 GMT -5
3. In the end when it says: "Leah to Command" Leah is clearly not speaking and standing right next to Satsu. Rowena is the one on the ground. Of course I suppose there COULD be two slayers named Leah high up in the command structure, but I doubt it. So the bubble around Leah's text clearly shows that her voice is being carried over the ear pieces to Buffy and Satsu. But it's actually Rowena on the ground checking in with command to see what to do about the vamps who are "rabbiting"/running away. Oops looks like even Goddard gets those two mixed up. And what about Drac's little revelation about the Scythe when he was talking about his sword? "It's one of the ancient relics. Bound with demon spirit -- like your scythe." I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of that here. Think there's any chance that "demon spirit" of the Scythe is Saga Vasuki? It would explain how Willow first came into contact with her (casting the spell back in S7), and maybe even explain what that "hot tip" that leads them to Manhattan is. That panel where Saga talks to her shows her all wrapped around what looks to me like Manhattan. Not to mention that panel shows the Scythe itself, which ... why would it show it there if she wasn't connected to it? Last but not least, It's apparent that Kumiko learned from Saga. Perhaps that's why she knows how to reverse Willow's spell. I don't think the demon essence comes from Saga Vasuki, but rather that she's in the know and passed that information on to Kumiko. But maybe...who knows, maybe Saga Vasuki is some kind of goddess. I can't wait to see more of her character.
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Bennyboi
Rogue Demon Hunter
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 496
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Post by Bennyboi on Jun 5, 2008 6:05:11 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this issue a lot. The lat scene reminded me of that from 'Dirty Girls' when Caleb is narrating as Buffy is walking through the hospital and streets. Funny, considering that that episode was also written by Drew Goddard!!!
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airgirl
Initiative Soldier
Dark Moon
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 337
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Post by airgirl on Jun 5, 2008 9:38:15 GMT -5
Just read this issue, agree with all the above - fang-tastic writing, really, absolutely amazing, the perfect tone throughout.
I thought is was a prfect resolution to the Buffy Satsu thing and to the Willow reaction to the Buffy Satsu thing as well.
So much humour as well. I love the mecha dawn and andrew's little speech - hilarious!
And the ending, so, so poignant, poor, poor Xander.
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 643
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Post by Enisy on Jun 5, 2008 12:05:25 GMT -5
Finally got my hands on it. I don't think anyone can deny that the whole thing reads like crackfic (Mecha Dawn?), but at least it's fun.
Gotta say I rolled my eyes at Buffy's "Mine too", though. Mmhmm. And your saying that would have nothing to do with Satsu leaving, right, Buff? Frankly, the way they handled the Satsu/Buffy storyline, almost any direction they take it is bound to get a "FAIL" in my book, but I've already ranted about that in another thread, and in an e-mail to Scott Allie.
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Post by dragonweaver on Jun 5, 2008 13:06:27 GMT -5
Not really sure I could say anything more than what's already been posted, but I wanted to say that I got the issue yesterday and I absolutely loved it.
I like how the first page was all from Renee's POV. It added weight to her death and made it feel more personal. I sincerely hope her death is not in vein. I really would like to see this be a catalyst for some character development for Xander. I've kind of felt that Xander hasn't had much of a role in Season 8 and I'd like that to change.
I like that we finally got more info on what Willow was up to while away from the group and it definitely peaked my interest in discovering just what her connection is to this Saga Vesuki. It was also nice to see Buffy save Willow. I know a few people on here weren't too happy with how powerful Willow has become and this issue proved she is still vulnerable.
I'll just throw my hat in and agree that Dracula was just amazing in this issue. For the first time I saw that he had respect for Xander and that they were truely friends. It makes me hope that he'll return later on in the comics.
Also Drac and Xander's exchange at the end was great. Xander stood up to him and while it was a funny moment in the midst of a sad task, that's usually what people do. Find humor in the dark times to help them cope. So it that sense I found it appropiate.
Dawn & Mecha Dawn were awesome. Definitely one of the best moments in the entire arc.
Buffy & Satsu's convo was also really good, but them as a romantic pairing? I can take it or leave it. Personally if it keeps Buffy sane then more power to her.
And lastly...Kumiko the witch...has not been completely confirmed to be a vampire. It's definitely possible, but I want to wait till I read a character say she's a vamp or see her turn all squishy face. All I can say for sure is that Buffy stabbed her but most likely didn't kill her. We didn't see her die or go poof in fact she seemed to fly off the opposite direction.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Jun 5, 2008 13:19:41 GMT -5
Effing Dracula! How dare Drew make me actually respect Dracula! He was a kind of joke in the show!!
This issue was the best so far IMO.
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