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Post by checkpoint7227 on Jun 7, 2008 17:24:50 GMT -5
barryshaft: MechaDawn was pretty over the top, but as Emmie pointed out, the Japanese vamps had from at least #12 to notice Giant Dawn. In fact, I'd argue way before; they had to do recon work, and understand the Slayer stronghold (i.e. weak points, entry points, barricaded places, where the Scythe was kept, etc). In fact, if there really was a mole (and I believe there probably was one since the vampires had an open invite), Giant Dawn was probably public knowledge since forever. Also, in #14, there is a reference to the robotics division, which, granted back then, had me scratching my head. I now take the robotics bit to mean the team that made and prepped MechaDawn. Exactly. Seems like a lot of people (here and on other sites) are complaining about how ridiculously unbelievable the idea of MechaDawn was. I thought it was funny, but I was also in the "oh, gimme a break " camp at first. But then when you think about it, it was shown in 8.14 that Toru fully expected Buffy and the others to come after the Scythe, and he was prepared to fight them. He appeared to be a very thorough, intelligent opponent, so he would've done his homework on what he'd be up against, and they most likely would've known about Giant Dawn even before 8.12 (it's not like she'd be hard to spot, even from miles away from the castle), and anticipated that the slayers might use her as a weapon. Maybe not, but it couldn't hurt to be prepared. There were probably several things they could've done to counter her, and one of those was to build an opponent her own size to keep her busy. That all makes perfect sense to me. The part that, at first, bordered on ludicrously-silly for me was that they'd build it to look like and act like Dawn. Why? Why bother? What advantage is there in that compared to just building one with a generic appearance and personality? But then I figured that anything they could do that might freak Dawn out, un-nerve her, and cause her to not fight as well was probably worth a shot. And they clearly didn't go to too much trouble to really make it look like her--the likeness is very basic and rudimentary. Also, I don't think they had a whole lot of inside info on Dawn's personality in programming it to act like her: "I enjoy blue jeans and irony"; "I cry a lot"; "I often let boys take advantage of my weak emotional states". Aren't those things that could apply to at least 50% of the teenage girls in the world? There's nothing there that really sticks out and makes me go, "Wow, they sure knew a lot about her and had her pegged." It was very obviously done as something that was supposed to be funny and silly and nothing more than that, but there's still enough logic behind it to make me believe it's not a ridiculously impossible plot element... Agreed.
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Post by irishrose on Jun 7, 2008 18:17:00 GMT -5
I too found this issue interesting, but it left me with one question? What exactly was this "massive hit" that we were promised? I dont think it was Renee's death, could it be a literal massive hit, like Dawn being literally hit by the Dawn-zilla monster robot? My theory stems from Xander. Before now he has almost always been in his Nick Fury outfit. In the last panel we see a street clothed Xander, scruffy, who has taken yet another massive hit to his heart. Perhaps the massive hit is that the team has lost Xander. He's quit. Out of the game. Unfortunately, that would fit in nicely with the Xander=Twilight groupies.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jun 7, 2008 21:40:42 GMT -5
The blurb said that "the slayers suffer a massive hit", which probably rules out the Dawn/MechaDawn battle. The idea of Xander quitting, which would certainly be a big-time blow to Team Slayer, is interesting, but since we didn't actually see that happen and it's just speculation at this point, it wouldn't be very accurate to include it in the descrip of this issue. I think it was supposed to mean Renee's death. Which is weird, because that seems to be more like something that should've been in the blurb for 8.14, not 15, and "massive" isn't really the best adjective to describe it. Kudos to whoever it was (I apologize for not remembering) who disagreed with me and said that they didn't think the blurb writers necessarily thought their choice of words out as carefully as they should have. It appears you were right.
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Post by buffysmglover on Jun 7, 2008 21:43:20 GMT -5
MechaDawn was ridiculous. They could have just magicked up a rock giant or something, but instead the bad guys went through all this trouble to create a nice shiny robot that looked like DAWN!!! WTF?
I also noticed Xander's shirt and the twilight similarity. Thought that was interesting.
I was very disappointed with the ending. Scott Allie set it up to look like there'd be some big shocker. But there wasn't anything I wasn't already expecting.
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Post by Emmie on Jun 7, 2008 22:11:40 GMT -5
I was very disappointed with the ending. Scott Allie set it up to look like there'd be some big shocker. But there wasn't anything I wasn't already expecting. I felt the same way.
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angelmonster
Potential Slayer
Tuesday's Son[Mo0:6]
Posts: 107
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Post by angelmonster on Jun 7, 2008 22:48:18 GMT -5
I was very disappointed with the ending. Scott Allie set it up to look like there'd be some big shocker. But there wasn't anything I wasn't already expecting. I felt the same way. The mega shocker is probably supposed to be Willow still messing around with a demon. Willow is suppose to be reformed, never going to lose control again and now here she is messing with a medusa wannabe demon. Not HUGE OMG ITS TWILIGHT'S IDENTITY sort of thing but kinda big. Shows that there is more to the storyline then just Twilight.
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Post by buffysmglover on Jun 7, 2008 22:50:30 GMT -5
The mega shocker is probably supposed to be Willow still messing around with a demon. Willow is suppose to be reformed, never going to lose control again and now here she is messing with a medusa wannabe demon. Not HUGE OMG ITS TWILIGHT'S IDENTITY sort of thing but kinda big. Shows that there is more to the storyline then just Twilight. Scott pointed us at the last page I think. And he mentioned Batsu.
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Post by Emmie on Jun 8, 2008 0:34:13 GMT -5
The mega shocker is probably supposed to be Willow still messing around with a demon. Willow is suppose to be reformed, never going to lose control again and now here she is messing with a medusa wannabe demon. Not HUGE OMG ITS TWILIGHT'S IDENTITY sort of thing but kinda big. Shows that there is more to the storyline then just Twilight. No, I'm not surprised by Willow contacting Saga Vasuki either. I mean when you compare the last panels to the shock of Renee's death and Buffy in bed with Satsu, the last page of the arc is barely a blip on the shock scale.
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Post by SlayerLV on Jun 8, 2008 0:42:02 GMT -5
This was an awesome issue and Wolves at the Gate has got to be my favorite arc so far. I love the talk between Willow and Buffy. I feel so bad for Xander losing Renee, I also want to see more of Willow's past and what went on with all the magic. I actually thought Drac totally kicked ass in the issue since he was kinda pointless in the first 3, it was also nice that he gave Xander the sword to finish off the vamp that killed his girl. I kinda feel bad for Satsu because it seems like she might get her heart broken if Buffy and her keep up the one night stands. All and all great issue.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jun 8, 2008 0:58:49 GMT -5
I was very disappointed with the ending. Scott Allie set it up to look like there'd be some big shocker. But there wasn't anything I wasn't already expecting. I felt the same way. Well, to be fair to him, he never used the words "shocking" or "shocker" or "cliffhanger" or anything like that. Someone asked about what the reaction to Buffy & Satsu had been, and he said, "Wait'll you see the final panel of #15". Seeing the two of them having sex was more than we'd seen in 8.12, so I can see where he was coming from. (He probably just forgot that it was actually the third-to-last panel, not the last.) It was then other people who interpretated that to mean something hugely shocking and surprising. Not to blow my own horn (toot, toot ), but I actually did think it was going to be something about the two of them, and I was guessing it might be seeing the two of them kiss. Well, it was--and more, besides...
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Post by wenxina on Jun 8, 2008 1:05:08 GMT -5
MechaDawn was ridiculous. They could have just magicked up a rock giant or something, but instead the bad guys went through all this trouble to create a nice shiny robot that looked like DAWN!!! WTF? Erm... one word. Asian. We like our shiny gizmos (seriously, the US is a dumping ground for the cesspool cellphones), and you can never fault a good work ethic. On a more serious note, just take it for the kicks... WatG has been a lukewarm arc for me... and since it started out campy, there probably wasn't any other way to go. My biggest problem with the arc in general is that aside from some big revelations, the general feel of it has been filler... Maybe because it got sandwiched between an awesome arc by Brian K Vaughan, 2 great standalones by Joss, and the much-hyped Time of Your Life arc... I guess it just got lost in the crowd.
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Lukee
Ensouled Vampire
Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
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Post by Lukee on Jun 8, 2008 2:41:40 GMT -5
I didn't think Robo Dawn was really that bad. Like its been said they knew Buffy and that would attack i mean they stole something of hers and she would want it back so they would have to be prepared for anything. That being Dawn. I just had a problem with the tail... its like hello yes i know this is Godzilla land get over it..
What happened to whats her face... Kumiko.? I mean Buffy stabbed her with a blade so she couldn't have gone all poofy?
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
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Post by dane5by5 on Jun 8, 2008 3:42:29 GMT -5
This has been my favourite arc so far. The dialogue, campy humour, action and character development has felt exactly like the show. Only with a much larger budget. Which is nice. The art has been exceptional.
I don't know why people have a problem with MechaDawn. This is BUFFY. Not Grey's Anatomy. Now if MechaMeredith had show up at Seatle Grace, well then I could understand the complaints. It's obvious the Japanese vamps had been watching Buffy and co. for a period of time, because otherwise how could they just sweep in and sweep out with Buffy's most powerful weapon in a matter of minutes. Without an invitation. They knew about the spell, therefore they likely knew what Willow was capable of doing.
Drew Goddard always impresses.
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BenTaylor3907
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Jun 8, 2008 5:15:47 GMT -5
I was very disappointed with the ending. Scott Allie set it up to look like there'd be some big shocker. But there wasn't anything I wasn't already expecting. Seriously. I was expecting one of the main characters to get killed off. Renee died, but thats not a "massive hit". It is for Xander but not for the Slayers. How could Willow and Saga Vasuki have sex? (Anywhere But Here). Where is her vagina? And is Saga Vasuki a god of some sort? I know willow called her "Goddess" but... And would being a god/goddess involve magic? Because I was thinking Saga Vasuki might be working with Twilight or whoever, to stop magic. Maybe she wants to take control of everything and rule the world. I wanted Saga Vasuki to be good.
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Iceeh★
Bad Ass Wicca
Also, Angels.
Somewhere, along in the bitterness.[Mo0:7]
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Post by Iceeh★ on Jun 8, 2008 5:37:59 GMT -5
Yay-Mecha-Dawn was a bit strange, but she provided some great comic relief. "I like blue jeans and irony." -The conversation with Buffy & Willow was priceless too. -Renee's final thoughts made me all teary, and they were very well written. -Andrew was great in this too. Heehee. -Dracula was a very good addition to this whole arc, and I loved how he was selfless and gave up his powers so save everyone. -Xander killing Toru was sweet revenge. Nay-Where the heck was the shocker? Alls that was there was Satsu deciding to leave, then breakup sex. Not nearly as shockworthy as Renee's death or Buffy's first one night stand with Satsu. -It took me a long time to differentiate Toru, Raidon, and Dracula. -I can't really imagine Nicky B. saying "I'll kill you in your sleep." Not very Xanderesque. But I suppose it fit his mood. All in all, I really liked this issue, and this whole arc. Probably my favorite so far.
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dane5by5
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[Mo0:0]
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Post by dane5by5 on Jun 8, 2008 6:25:35 GMT -5
Yay-Mecha-Dawn was a bit strange, but she provided some great comic relief. "I like blue jeans and irony." -The conversation with Buffy & Willow was priceless too. -Renee's final thoughts made me all teary, and they were very well written. -Andrew was great in this too. Heehee. -Dracula was a very good addition to this whole arc, and I loved how he was selfless and gave up his powers so save everyone. -Xander killing Toru was sweet revenge. Nay-Where the heck was the shocker? Alls that was there was Satsu deciding to leave, then breakup sex. Not nearly as shockworthy as Renee's death or Buffy's first one night stand with Satsu. -It took me a long time to differentiate Toru, Raidon, and Dracula. -I can't really imagine Nicky B. saying "I'll kill you in your sleep." Not very Xanderesque. But I suppose it fit his mood. All in all, I really liked this issue, and this whole arc. Probably my favorite so far. I pretty much agree with everything you said, but I wanted to add, I think the point of Xander saying "I'll kill you in your sleep." is to show that now, Xander has changed. Even if only for a moment. He has a darkness. Despair and anger to his character. Which is in total contrast to his usual character. I found it very fitting. It really created concern in me for his character. BenTaylor3907 I don't think Willow called Saga Vasuki "Goddess". I think Willow just uses it in place of "God". Like "Oh God. Worst headache ever." You know?
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BenTaylor3907
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Jun 8, 2008 7:19:52 GMT -5
Ohhh, OK. Thanks! Iceeh, your banner is hysterical
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dane5by5
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[Mo0:0]
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Post by dane5by5 on Jun 8, 2008 7:43:05 GMT -5
I just thought of a question, when Willow took hold of Kumiko's head and said "Talk to me" what was she trying to do? She had a vision, but I don't think that's what she intended to do. Any ideas?
By the way, I loved the banter between Willow and Kumiko in that fight. A classic Buffy fight scene.
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BenTaylor3907
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Jun 8, 2008 7:53:48 GMT -5
I just thought of a question, when Willow took hold of Kumiko's head and said "Talk to me" what was she trying to do? She had a vision, but I don't think that's what she intended to do. Any ideas? By the way, I loved the banter between Willow and Kumiko in that fight. A classic Buffy fight scene. They are both witches and have the same magic skills is what I interpreted when Kumiko said "We speak the same language, you and I". And when Willow said "Talk to me" she was telling her to bring it on and fights back. I don't think Willow had anything to do with the vision. I guess Saga Vasuki just wanted to pop in.
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Slayer489
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
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Post by Slayer489 on Jun 8, 2008 10:05:22 GMT -5
I got this issue Friday and I have to say it was brilliant. I loved the big epic battle feel to it like we'd get in one of the show's episodes. Renee's death and inner monologue was so touching. I really felt for Xander in this issue. And it was great when he stood up to Dracula. Dracula was very helpful this issue by telling Willow how to reverse the spell and sacrificing his own powers. And seeing him get angry with his "He's not alone" was great. Willow and Kumiko's fight was just what I wanted to see and the official introduction of Saga Vasuki was interesting and it'll be great to see where that takes us. Also, I don;t think that Kumiko's dead because Buffy stabbed her with a knife, which maybe weakened her and knocked her out? MechaDawn! YAAAAAY! LOVED her! Toru probably got some of his witches to make her wuickly to fight Dawn. I loved it when MechaDawn was taking the piss out of Dawn. So funny. And Andrew's comments and help here were hilarious and cool too. I loved Buffy and Willow's chat in the water after they fell. I also love the panel where Raidon's running for the Scythe and Willow's floating there holding Buffy and Satsu. Brilliant. Dracula was vicious at the end cutting Toru's arms and legs off. And letting Xander have the kill, which was so eerily emotionless. And Xander falling to his knees and hugging Buffy was sad. The conversation between Buffy and Satsu at the end was needed and I can't believe that Satsu is going to stay in Japan. And the las panel has a very "it's just the beginning" vibe to it. With Willow summoning Saga Vasuki, Buffy and Satsu saying goodbye and having one last night together and Xander scattering Renee's ashes with Dracula sailing away. Great end to a fantastic arc! Bring on 'Time Of Your Life'.
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