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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jun 14, 2008 3:43:09 GMT -5
Again I say. the first did not want to have Faith nor Buffy killed until all the potiential slayers were killed first. What about the chick that tried to kill faith in jail? You don't think that was on the first's order? Perhaps the first didn't attack Buffy because it didn't have someone powerful enough to kill her yet. It feared her. She did have slayer power after she died the first time. ... I'm misunderstanding you here aren't I?
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Slayer489
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Post by Slayer489 on Jun 14, 2008 9:21:18 GMT -5
I think that this disturbance in the slayer line happened because: 1.) There are 2 slayers in existence 2.) Buffy was brought back TWICE. The disturbance happened after the second time she was brought back because there are 2 slayers in existence and Buffy was brought back AGAIN. These events allowed the First to be able to identify potentials easily now, sort of like the cloak has been lifted. Therefore, The First started killing them off. The reason The First didn't kill Buffy or Faith is because it feared that the cloak would be put back on so to speak if they both died and also, if Faith died, a new slayer would be called. Although, there were moments where The First didn't care who lived and who died, so it just tried to kill Buffy and Faith anyway, which is quite typical of evil to get pissed off and to just want death. That's what I think anyway if it helps anybody.
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rmw
Potential Slayer
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Post by rmw on Jun 14, 2008 16:50:09 GMT -5
On one hand,if Satsu returns at some point in S8(which I think will happen),then the way it ended in this issue would be good as it could set up some major drama(Buffy finds love,Satsu can't get over her kinda thing). What if the opposite happens? What if Satsu returns with a new girlfriend, and Buffy surprises herself by actually getting a little jealous about it? (Which I think would be frickin' hilarious... ;D ) The whole Satsu with a girlfriend and Buffy kind of jealous--that would be funny.
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moscowwatcher
Potential Slayer
You're the one, Buffy[Mo0:0]
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Post by moscowwatcher on Jun 15, 2008 5:02:01 GMT -5
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Post by Emmie on Jun 15, 2008 6:15:46 GMT -5
Great review. I loved the analysis of Dawn's fight with MechaDawn and how by destroying the whiny, brat version of herself she was claiming her own maturity. Metamorphasis is the name of Dawn's game - she's going through changes. And Tallgent seems to also see the set-up for a Xander/Buffy romance in the offing. It's starting to look of the likely.
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dane5by5
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Post by dane5by5 on Jun 15, 2008 6:52:54 GMT -5
Great review. I loved the analysis of Dawn's fight with MechaDawn and how by destroying the whiny, brat version of herself she was claiming her own maturity. Metamorphasis is the name of Dawn's game - she's going through changes. And Tallgent seems to also see the set-up for a Xander/Buffy romance in the offing. It's starting to look of the likely. Yeah, that was a very interesting analysis. I never thought of Dawn killing Mecha Dawn in that sense. I'm really loving the subtext to Dawn's story this season. It's shaping up to be her best storyline yet.
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Post by Emmie on Jun 15, 2008 7:06:00 GMT -5
Agreed, dane5by5 Dawn is getting interesting development that's long overdue. It makes me wonder if there isn't some more meaning to Dawn's being a giant, that not only is it a cry for attention from Buffy, but maybe a cry for the attention of the audience to "Look at Dawn" and expect big things to come from her in this season.
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dane5by5
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Post by dane5by5 on Jun 15, 2008 8:43:15 GMT -5
Agreed, dane5by5 Dawn is getting interesting development that's long overdue. It makes me wonder if there isn't some more meaning to Dawn's being a giant, that not only is it a cry for attention from Buffy, but maybe a cry for the attention of the audience to "Look at Dawn" and expect big things to come from her in this season. Knowing how Joss tells his stories, that would not surprise me. Dawn is often overlooked, not only by Buffy but by the audience too. Well you can't ignore someone who is a giant!
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Post by timeless on Jun 15, 2008 9:44:43 GMT -5
Again I say. the first did not want to have Faith nor Buffy killed until all the potiential slayers were killed first. That way, when buffy and faith were killed the slayer line would not continue. If buffy couldnt pass her power on, than the first would have tired to kill her right away. I mean getting rid of her would seem smart seeing as how powerful she is. And if it were true that Buffys power couldnt to passed on anymore, she would have had Slayer power after she died the first time. I mean, its not like she was born with them.
I think Joss is saving that story. It makes sense that there is another Buffy?faith type slayer somewhere Or here's another possible scenario. The First didn't know that, or at least certainly wasn't tempted to try anything rash... It did underestimate Buffy's abilities. Or here's another one. The First was exploiting the disruption in the Slayer line... the disruption essentially coming down to the fact that 2 Slayers are in existence at the same time. Killing Buffy, even if she couldn't pass the Slayer lineage on would return things to the status quo; i.e. one Slayer at a time. Should the First's plan hinge on that disturbance, surely it would make sense to keep things as is, until the perfect opportunity arises. The First is eternal, It's not exactly tight in the time and waiting department. I'm not gonna pretend to really understand the First's plan, or at least the metaphysics that allow it. Emmie and I had a long discussion about it a long time ago, and let's just say that the argument really can swing either way. I'm just playing devil's advocate and presenting the other side to your argument. I get that. But i still think that maybe Buffy's death activated a new slayer. And that would be a really cool storyline. ( the new slayer kept at bay by the watchers council so that she wouldn't become another Buffy or Faith type Slayer) I mean if a new slayer was activated the watchers would have no reason to tell The Scoobies nor Giles about her, and no reason to even tell her about Buffy and what they had in Sunnydale. Even though there are thousands of slayers now, this girl wouldn't know what the hell is going on, She wouldn't know about willows spell. For all she knows she is the one and only CHOSEN ONE
And if you remember, in season 6, when Buffy and Giles were talking as Giles held Dark Willow in captivity, Buffy said to Giles ( and i don't know if this is the exact quote) " I was finished, someone would have taken my place)
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Post by wenxina on Jun 15, 2008 11:29:10 GMT -5
I get that. But i still think that maybe Buffy's death activated a new slayer. And that would be a really cool storyline. ( the new slayer kept at bay by the watchers council so that she wouldn't become another Buffy or Faith type Slayer) I mean if a new slayer was activated the watchers would have no reason to tell The Scoobies nor Giles about her, and no reason to even tell her about Buffy and what they had in Sunnydale. Even though there are thousands of slayers now, this girl wouldn't know what the hell is going on, She wouldn't know about willows spell. For all she knows she is the one and only CHOSEN ONE
And if you remember, in season 6, when Buffy and Giles were talking as Giles held Dark Willow in captivity, Buffy said to Giles ( and i don't know if this is the exact quote) " I was finished, someone would have taken my place) Except that most of the Watcher's Council was blown up by Caleb (and his minions) in S7 (Giles tells Faith in #6 of Buffy Season 8 that he is essentially the Watcher's Council now)... even if the girl was kept isolated, you'd think that something like that would probably have reached her. Or at least her Watcher, which would have spurred some kind of action. I agree that the Watcher's Council would have no reason to tell the Scoobies IF such a girl existed, as they would have been glad to have a new "instrument" to fight evil. However, I fail to see why not bring the girl with them to Sunnydale, as they had planned to go there, just before being blown up. Regarding that S6 ep, it's possible that Buffy and Giles don't know any better. The existence of 2 Slayers at the same time is unprecedented, and there would be no records as to how the Slayer line is transmitted. Buffy even goes as far as to tell the Potentials that her death could make one of them the next Slayer. So for all everyone knows, it's possible that Buffy's death still activated a new Slayer, but there aren't many lines of evidence that support it.
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Lukee
Ensouled Vampire
Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
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Post by Lukee on Jun 15, 2008 12:31:56 GMT -5
Joss shoud really clear this up for us Or has he alright?
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El Diablo Robotico
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jun 15, 2008 13:02:22 GMT -5
And if you remember, in season 6, when Buffy and Giles were talking as Giles held Dark Willow in captivity, Buffy said to Giles ( and i don't know if this is the exact quote) " I was finished, someone would have taken my place) [/color][/quote] Except then you have to trust that Buffy knows what she's talking about. Just because she's a slayer doesn't mean she knows every little detail of how the mojo that controls the line works... especially in such a unique case as this. As you pointed out, she also mentions that the First is trying to kill all the potentials, then Faith, then her. Why? Why in that order? So that her death couldn't cause the activation of a new slayer? Even if her death could cause that, what sense does that make? Buffy is the greatest slayer who ever lived--wouldn't you want to get her out of the way as quickly as possible, and then even if a new slayer was called, she wouldn't be anywhere near as experienced or formidable as Buffy. I take this as a case of Buffy being a little more self-involved than normal. Also, in "Potential", Dawn believes she's a potential, and then thinks that if she were ever to become a slayer, it would be because Buffy died. Again, an example of the characters not necessarily knowing the facts, and taking their lead from Buffy, where in her mind she's the real Slayer, and Faith is just a freak accident. It never even occurs to any of them that, as far as the Slayer mojo is concerned, Faith might be the real Slayer now. The answer I gave originally, about the line now passing thru Faith, was--I'm fairly certain--the explanation given by a couple of the writers in an interview, early S6-ish (maybe someone remembers it and can post the exact quote). There was never anything said about it on-screen, one way or another, so Joss always could change his mind about that if he ever had a reason to, but at least back then, right after Buffy's (second) death, that was the thinking on it...
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jun 15, 2008 13:24:23 GMT -5
Here's a theory to the question; Why kill the potentials first, then Faith&Buffy?
Maybe The first didn't want to draw attention to itself. If it killed Buffy/Faith and then started to kill potentials, I think the watcher's council would have been suspiscious, and started to work on plan. Not good for the First. But if it killed of potentials first, not as many eye-browns would have been raised. People notice when a slayer die, but potentials?
That's a possibility, that has nothing to do with the degree of slayerness in Buffy or Faith.
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El Diablo Robotico
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jun 15, 2008 13:32:16 GMT -5
Here's a theory to the question; Why kill the potentials first, then Faith&Buffy? Maybe The first didn't want to draw attention to itself. If it killed Buffy/Faith and then started to kill potentials, I think the watcher's council would have been suspiscious, and started to work on plan. Not good for the First. But if it killed of potentials first, not as many eye-browns would have been raised. People notice when a slayer die, but potentials? That's a possibility, that has nothing to do with the degree of slayerness in Buffy or Faith. It's a good theory, except that the Council got blown up very early-on in the First's attacks, even before Buffy mentioned the idea of her being saved for last (and by then, she knew about the end of the Council). The First also sent the Bringers to Buffy's house to attack them and capture Spike, even before the attack on the Council, so it wasn't exactly going lo-pro...
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jun 15, 2008 15:00:52 GMT -5
Here's a theory to the question; Why kill the potentials first, then Faith&Buffy? Maybe The first didn't want to draw attention to itself. If it killed Buffy/Faith and then started to kill potentials, I think the watcher's council would have been suspiscious, and started to work on plan. Not good for the First. But if it killed of potentials first, not as many eye-browns would have been raised. People notice when a slayer die, but potentials? That's a possibility, that has nothing to do with the degree of slayerness in Buffy or Faith. It's a good theory, except that the Council got blown up very early-on in the First's attacks, even before Buffy mentioned the idea of her being saved for last (and by then, she knew about the end of the Council). The First also sent the Bringers to Buffy's house to attack them and capture Spike, even before the attack on the Council, so it wasn't exactly going lo-pro... Well, I didn't say that the first planned well, but who knows how many potentials that died before the scoobies knew about it? I'm assuming that the first is considering Buffy a threat of course.
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Post by timeless on Jun 16, 2008 19:18:32 GMT -5
And if you remember, in season 6, when Buffy and Giles were talking as Giles held Dark Willow in captivity, Buffy said to Giles ( and i don't know if this is the exact quote) " I was finished, someone would have taken my place) [/color][/quote] Except then you have to trust that Buffy knows what she's talking about. Just because she's a slayer doesn't mean she knows every little detail of how the mojo that controls the line works... especially in such a unique case as this. As you pointed out, she also mentions that the First is trying to kill all the potentials, then Faith, then her. Why? Why in that order? So that her death couldn't cause the activation of a new slayer? Even if her death could cause that, what sense does that make? Buffy is the greatest slayer who ever lived--wouldn't you want to get her out of the way as quickly as possible, and then even if a new slayer was called, she wouldn't be anywhere near as experienced or formidable as Buffy. I take this as a case of Buffy being a little more self-involved than normal. Also, in "Potential", Dawn believes she's a potential, and then thinks that if she were ever to become a slayer, it would be because Buffy died. Again, an example of the characters not necessarily knowing the facts, and taking their lead from Buffy, where in her mind she's the real Slayer, and Faith is just a freak accident. It never even occurs to any of them that, as far as the Slayer mojo is concerned, Faith might be the real Slayer now. The answer I gave originally, about the line now passing thru Faith, was--I'm fairly certain--the explanation given by a couple of the writers in an interview, early S6-ish (maybe someone remembers it and can post the exact quote). There was never anything said about it on-screen, one way or another, so Joss always could change his mind about that if he ever had a reason to, but at least back then, right after Buffy's (second) death, that was the thinking on it...[/quote] Even so.. It would be sooo cool if this girl exitisted. Theres so many reasond why the girl would have never come to Sunnydale. And like you said, i all comes down to Joss. But since it was never mentioned in the show i believe Joss had something brewing. So next Question! lol can anyone explain Fray to me?
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Post by wenxina on Jun 16, 2008 21:23:49 GMT -5
Wouldn't just reading the TPB and forming your own conclusions be more fun?
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dane5by5
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Post by dane5by5 on Jun 16, 2008 21:38:40 GMT -5
Wouldn't just reading the TPB and forming your own conclusions be more fun? It's most definitely worth the money. It's an interesting story with great characterisation. If you read it before "Time of Your Life" I'm sure it will make that story have added depth too. The story is about a Vampire Slayer of the future named Melaka Fray and her discovery of what being a Slayer means. It has been centuries since the last Slayer was called. Demons were banished from the Earth at some point in the 21st century by an unnamed Slayer and her friends, and the Watchers' Council has descended into a group of crazed fanatics. The vampires however, now dubbed lurks, have returned and haunt the city. In order to combat this threat a new Slayer is called: a professional thief named Melaka Fray. With the Watchers' Council ineffective, a group of "neutral" demons send the demon Urkonn to prepare Melaka Fray for the war that is sure to come. That's a brief synopsis I borrowed from Wikipedia. Now go buy Fray!
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balesthebloody
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Post by balesthebloody on Jun 19, 2008 15:22:54 GMT -5
Read this issue yesterday for the first time. It have been one of the best yet. Poor Xand, 'nuff said! Dawnzilla! We got some good stuff from her this issue. About time Dawn did something besides cry!! The Batsu closure was nice, but I really don't think that they are over just yet. Willow and Saga Vasuki just keep getting interesting, can't wait to see more from them. Andrew really did shine in this arc! We need more Andrew!! Dracula was great, at first I was sad to see him return, but now at the end I am glad that he did.
Couple of questions...is Dracula just a normal vampire now and was that Twilight at the end on the ship?
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Whedon Fan
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Post by Whedon Fan on Jun 19, 2008 15:42:07 GMT -5
I've already written what I thought of Wolves at the Gate as seperate issues but I have to say over all this is the...I would never use the word "worst" because that is 100% not true it was a fantastic arc, but it is not the best out of the three that we have all read so far. My season 8 list gpes like this: 1) No Future For You 2) Time Of Your Life (Not out but I know I'll love it based on what I've already read of Fray and the previews) 3) The Long Way Home 4) Wolves At The Gate This is all just my opinion before I get attacked. lol
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