El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on May 11, 2008 22:18:19 GMT -5
I also hope that Willow doesn't 'magically' bring her back..that would be so totally corny and a good waste of three pages. Not just a good waste of three pages, it's also a good waste of a cliffhanger and great character development. When Willow brought Buffy back in "Villains", was that a waste of a cliffhanger (Buffy getting shot in the chest) from "Seeing Red"?
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Post by hitnrun017 on May 11, 2008 22:23:09 GMT -5
Not just a good waste of three pages, it's also a good waste of a cliffhanger and great character development. When Willow brought Buffy back in "Villains", was that a waste of a cliffhanger (Buffy getting shot in the chest) from "Seeing Red"? Not really, because Tara getting shot and killed was way more shocking and important. It was obvious Buffy wasn't going to die anyways.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on May 11, 2008 22:31:11 GMT -5
When Willow brought Buffy back in "Villains", was that a waste of a cliffhanger (Buffy getting shot in the chest) from "Seeing Red"? Not really, because Tara getting shot and killed was way more shocking and important. It was obvious Buffy wasn't going to die anyways. But your other post makes it clear that you think it's obvious Renee's going to die, so where's the difference? The key element of a "cliffhanger" is that you don't know how it's going to turn out. If you've already made up your mind about what's "obviously" going to happen, and then it doesn't, then how can it be a waste of a cliffhanger, when, to you, it apparently never was a cliffhanger?
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Post by hitnrun017 on May 11, 2008 22:36:50 GMT -5
Not really, because Tara getting shot and killed was way more shocking and important. It was obvious Buffy wasn't going to die anyways. But your other post makes it clear that you think it's obvious Renee's going to die, so where's the difference? The key element of a "cliffhanger" is that you don't know how it's going to turn out. If you've already made up your mind about what's "obviously" going to happen, and then it doesn't, then how can it be a waste of a cliffhanger, when, to you, it apparently never was a cliffhanger? Haha, yeah you're right. I didn't really think that one out..... Thank you very much for making me sound like an idot.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on May 11, 2008 22:44:01 GMT -5
Aw, I didn't mean to make you sound like an idiot. (Which, I don't think you did.) Just trying to point out the fly in the logic ointment... I hope she does live, and I'm about 50/50 (maybe 40/60) on the chances of it happening. Whichever way it goes, tho, it was a great cliffhanger...
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Post by hitnrun017 on May 11, 2008 22:54:47 GMT -5
Ah, I was just kidding with the whole idiot thing. I'm excited to see what happens next, and I agree it was a great cliffhanger, my favorite yet.
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Post by themaleslayer on May 11, 2008 22:59:04 GMT -5
Ah, I was just kidding with the whole idiot thing. I'm excited to see what happens next, and I agree it was a great cliffhanger, my favorite yet. Yeah. I wouldn't be suprised if they found a way to revive her. Or if the Scythe revives her...
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nadir
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 28
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Post by nadir on May 12, 2008 20:28:27 GMT -5
Ultimately, like a lot of people have said, I think this will end up being a serious chapter in Xander's character. The timing of it in particular is probably going to cause some problems. I'm not sure why, but when I think of this event, and I think to the interview saying things are REALLY gonna start changing by around issue 20 (though I forget who said that), I start to wonder what role Xan will play in said change... hrmm... It's taken a while, but the grand scheme of things in Season 8 is starting to become really fun to follow. (Thankfully, I didn't even finish Season 7 until almost March).
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Post by Jinxieman on May 12, 2008 23:16:22 GMT -5
I haven't even read the issue yet, but i'm pretty sure she's dead. Joss can't bring back any more characters. That would just be silly. no more i say. This is starting to look lika a bad daytime soap opera One thing, Renee is not dead yet. She was still alive on the last page. This combined with the fact that the one person who would have the magic to heal her BEFORE she dies is in the room. It is completely plausible that Willow could heal her IF she acts fast enough...thus she would not be "brought back" I also don't understand why so many people condemn Joss for bringing people back, when he really doesn't do it very often. How many people have Joss actually brought back from death in 12 seasons of TV and 21 issues of comic. Dead and brought back:Buffy. Darla. Kennedy, apparently. Not really dead and brought back:Angel was never dead...just in a Hell dimension. Spike was sucked into the Amulet when his body dusted...so I don't know if that would be considered a death as his soul and a non-corporal form of his body remained. Wesley technically is still dead. Warren was never dead and Joss made a mistake (we forget he is human sometimes). Dead and staying that way...as of yet:Jenny Joyce Tara Anya Doyle Cordelia Fred (although this might change) Countless Victims Countless Potentials My point: More people stay dead in the Buffyverse than come back and those who do come back do so for a reason. If Renee doesn't die her near death will play a part in Xander's characterization and the formation of their relationship.
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Post by Emmie on May 13, 2008 0:02:11 GMT -5
Not really dead and brought back:Warren was never dead and Joss made a mistake (we forget he is human sometimes). I thought Warren having never been dead was a retcon for the comics. I forget how Joss reconciled the inconsistency of the First using Warren's form and Warren being in the comics. I suspect he intended for Warren to be dead during Season 7 (hence the First showing up as him and TKIM having more emotional resonance). But when the comics came around it had been 5 years and he only thought he had to explain how Warren could've survived the flaying in order to bring him back. That Warren's death could be viewed ambiguously if he said that Amy saved him from dying with her magic, except that he forgot about the First next season making it clear that Warren was dead.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on May 13, 2008 1:12:40 GMT -5
Not really dead and brought back:Warren was never dead and Joss made a mistake (we forget he is human sometimes). I thought Warren having never been dead was a retcon for the comics. I forget how Joss reconciled the inconsistency of the First using Warren's form and Warren being in the comics. I suspect he intended for Warren to be dead during Season 7 (hence the First showing up as him and TKIM having more emotional resonance). But when the comics came around it had been 5 years and he only thought he had to explain how Warren could've survived the flaying in order to bring him back. That Warren's death could be viewed ambiguously if he said that Amy saved him from dying with her magic, except that he forgot about the First next season making it clear that Warren was dead. My own personal retcon of Joss's retcon is that Warren was very briefly dead, and Amy revived him, similar to what happened to Buffy at the end of S1. In her case, she was dead long enough to cause the activation of the next Slayer; in Warren's case, he was dead just long enough for the First to be able to take his form...
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Post by Emmie on May 13, 2008 1:22:15 GMT -5
I thought Warren having never been dead was a retcon for the comics. I forget how Joss reconciled the inconsistency of the First using Warren's form and Warren being in the comics. I suspect he intended for Warren to be dead during Season 7 (hence the First showing up as him and TKIM having more emotional resonance). But when the comics came around it had been 5 years and he only thought he had to explain how Warren could've survived the flaying in order to bring him back. That Warren's death could be viewed ambiguously if he said that Amy saved him from dying with her magic, except that he forgot about the First next season making it clear that Warren was dead. My own personal retcon of Joss's retcon is that Warren was very briefly dead, and Amy revived him, similar to what happened to Buffy at the end of S1. In her case, she was dead long enough to cause the activation of the next Slayer; in Warren's case, he was dead just long enough for the First to be able to take his form... Ya that's my take on it too. I like our fan retcons - they make more sense. I love when fans ask questions at comicons and such and the writers go "huh that makes senses, i like that explanation".
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Post by Jinxieman on May 13, 2008 14:42:08 GMT -5
Not really dead and brought back:Warren was never dead and Joss made a mistake (we forget he is human sometimes). I thought Warren having never been dead was a retcon for the comics. I forget how Joss reconciled the inconsistency of the First using Warren's form and Warren being in the comics. I suspect he intended for Warren to be dead during Season 7 (hence the First showing up as him and TKIM having more emotional resonance). But when the comics came around it had been 5 years and he only thought he had to explain how Warren could've survived the flaying in order to bring him back. That Warren's death could be viewed ambiguously if he said that Amy saved him from dying with her magic, except that he forgot about the First next season making it clear that Warren was dead. Um...yeah...Joss said in an interview somewhere that he made a mistake and overlooked the fact that the first appeared as Warren. The explanation that fits best is that Warren flat lined, much like Buffy at the end of season 1, and then Amy saved his life with magic ...kind of like a magic CPR and skin graft. Thus Warren was never really dead but only momentarily dead then revived by Amy. In a sense his death was not set but he was in that state where he was retrievable...like a drown victim who can be revived by CPR. Much like that, if Willow can heal Renee before her soul leaves her body then she could save her life and it wouldn't be like she was brought back...only healed...like Buffy at the end of season 6.
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Post by Rebecca on May 13, 2008 16:19:40 GMT -5
thank you. thank you. thank you.
*blesses*
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deathisyourgift
Ensouled Vampire
to read makes our speaking English good!
Timothy Dalton should win an Oscar and beat Sean Connery over the head with it!!-Andrew[Mo0:37]
Posts: 1,166
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Post by deathisyourgift on Jul 1, 2008 11:21:41 GMT -5
I am sad..I liked Renee immensely. And when Xander is sad, I am sad. Give the man a damn break!
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Post by diabeticdude202 on Dec 1, 2008 4:34:40 GMT -5
I think the relationship of Xander and Renee was planned like this, her death to me was something I thought was great for his character. It reminded him how hard it was to lose someone and also I MISS ANYA
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batboy99
Potential Slayer
You're a little impressed, admit it.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 199
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Post by batboy99 on Jan 14, 2009 14:12:20 GMT -5
Yeah, but they gotta give the guy a break now. Two of his loves die. Plus the time period wasnt very far apart.(I think). I liked Renee, but not with Xander. I honestly dont see him working with anyone BUT Anya. Samething with Willow and Tara.
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