El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Sept 5, 2008 21:33:05 GMT -5
This was the first issue of S8 that I was really disappointed by. Not that it was the worst issue (it wasn't), but I love "Fray" so much that I guess maybe my expectations were a little too high for this arc. I keep waiting for the story to pick up and start gaining some momentum, and it's not happening. This is really starting to have the feel of a story that could've (and maybe should've) been told in just 3 issues, that's been stretched out to fill up 4. With regards to Mel showing more "personality" in these 2 issues than Renee or Satsu--I'm just not seeing that (and I love Mel!). But to me she's been a very flat character here so far, and we're just filling in the blanks in her personality from what we remember of her in "Fray" (it would be interesting to hear the opinions of her in this arc from those who haven't read "Fray"). I agree with xi that her main purpose so far seems to be as a foil to Buffy--she really has had no new development to her own character to this point (we'll see if that changes in Part 4, after the action she took at the very end of Pt. 3). And the new future-slang for her has been way over-used, and completely changed the way she's always spoken previously. It's a jarring change, and pretty damn annoying. Maybe Part 4 will be spectacularly awesome and completely change my mind, but 3/4 of the way thru, I still rank WatG and NFFY ahead of ToYL, and think it's pretty ironic that Joss's issues have been the real 'weak link' in the season...
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spurtyknowledge
Rogue Demon Hunter
I'm wired to the world.
"She told them that the only grace they could have was the grace they could imagine."[Mo0:25]
Posts: 411
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Post by spurtyknowledge on Sept 5, 2008 21:40:58 GMT -5
enisy: You're not alone. I'm loving Time of Your Life too. This arc has been full of meaning, parallels and symbolism. A lot of great literary material to chew over and deep themes to explore. Plus the return to the main characters getting the lion's share of page time is very welcome. Great point about Fray showing more personality in one issue than Satsu or Renee. That's my main complaint with the noob slayers who were given significant page time - for all the space devoted to them, I was largely unmoved by their development. vampmogs: It was a somber issue on the re-read as it dealt with the very serious shortcomings in two of our main characters, Buffy and Willow. It's interesting how Issue 16 was the most joyous issue of the entire season, in my opinion, while the following two issues have been rife with tragedy. I'm hoping the close to this arc deals with Buffy getting a much needed wake-up call. Wyndam: Great comparison. Buffy is starting to resemble Giles with her detached, "big picture" philosophy. I think she's losing the mission of saving humanity in her "slayers vs the enemy" war. I say enemy instead of demons because I think the stage is being set for the slayers to be in conflict with humanity itself. Remember Buffy saying she's having trouble feeling connected? Her deciding to let those people die in favor of finding Harth's headquarters is evidence of this. She's obsessing about her war on vampires and demons while becoming detached from her morality and connection to humanity. Buffy's about to be between a rock and a hard place, alienating the people she is meant to protect and lead while directly attacking her enemies. Too much for the slayer army to handle? Oh yeah. Ditto on all counts Emmie. I'm really interested in where this arc is heading, and as of the moment it stands as my second favorite arc, with The Long Way Home and Wolves at the Gate closely tied behind it. Issue 19 will be a terrible wait. Probably even moreso than Issue 20 with the delay. Issue 17 and 18 have both been marked with tragedy, certainly. Also interesting to see that Saga Vasuki seems to have more than just a sexual/magical relationship with Willow. Or maybe it's just another aspect of her manipulation.
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Post by vampiresaiyan on Sept 5, 2008 21:43:43 GMT -5
I see where your coming from, but when you really think about it this is a Buffy comic with Meleka making a apperence. So I can kinda see not taking her character too far. I mean I am sure they are still planning a Fray sequel down the road that might take place after this. But yeah I agree it kinda feels like this isnt going anywhere. I can't wait to see what Willow showed Meleka, and I also have a sinking feeling that Willow will see her dark self and that could be the start of some even more trama stuff for Will. But yeah I can't wait for the last comic if even just for the cover. I actully got a print signed of #19's cover by Jo hanging on my wall. I still think its my fav so far lol. But yeah Buffy is Buffy. It has its ups and its downs. But yeah here is a fun question. If you would have to rate this season so far. What seasons would you compare it to? VS ^vv^
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rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
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Post by rufio on Sept 5, 2008 22:51:21 GMT -5
i'm hoping somehow Xander + Dawn get thrown into the future with buffy and have the finale take place in central park! Dawn was a giant in tokyo, so a centaur in futuristic new york would make sense. lol
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rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
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Post by rufio on Sept 5, 2008 22:56:15 GMT -5
I thought the issue was pretty weak. I enjoyed with Dark Willow parts. Am I to understand that her only being allowed to cast that one spell at that particular time means her magic is greatly weakend? Makes sense. ALSO - Her saying that she has earned the MADWOMAN card means that something crucial has happened to her. I think that means Kennedy dies. But that is my opinion. Yeah like Mikey said, the Xander and Dawn stuff was annoying and unnecessary. I really don't care if the tree people help them out or not. I want to get as much as I can out of this arc and it just isn't delivering in terms of "bringing the juice". Maybe it's the art. I hope it's not the writing. I guess I will find out in a month from now. Wolves at the Gate was so good. This isn't as good. I think it all depends on if you read fray and enjoyed it to how much you will enjoy this arc. I personally read fray and liked it as part of buffys world, so the fact that it's now becoming part of buffy's story is exciting to me!
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Post by wenxina on Sept 6, 2008 0:04:54 GMT -5
This was the first issue of S8 that I was really disappointed by. Not that it was the worst issue (it wasn't), but I love "Fray" so much that I guess maybe my expectations were a little too high for this arc. I keep waiting for the story to pick up and start gaining some momentum, and it's not happening. This is really starting to have the feel of a story that could've (and maybe should've) been told in just 3 issues, that's been stretched out to fill up 4. While I agree that there's not much in the realm of action, I think ToYL is shaping up to be a lot more introspective than i had previously expected it to be. A part of that stems from just how dynamic the Fray limited series was, but then again, that was 8 issues in which Joss had to shape his entire world. S8 is an entirely different beast. 40 issues, and he's not even half-way through. This arc doesn't really have to accomplish all that much; the goal is to reconcile the two separate continuities of the Buffyverse, and most of that resolution can't come till the end of the season. So the denouement required is really not that big. But I think there's still room for big impact in the final issue of this arc. With regards to Mel showing more "personality" in these 2 issues than Renee or Satsu--I'm just not seeing that (and I love Mel!). But to me she's been a very flat character here so far, and we're just filling in the blanks in her personality from what we remember of her in "Fray" (it would be interesting to hear the opinions of her in this arc from those who haven't read "Fray"). I agree with xi that her main purpose so far seems to be as a foil to Buffy--she really has had no new development to her own character to this point (we'll see if that changes in Part 4, after the action she took at the very end of Pt. 3). And the new future-slang for her has been way over-used, and completely changed the way she's always spoken previously. It's a jarring change, and pretty damn annoying. Okay, I've said it before, but I'm one of the rare few who actually enjoyed the expansion of future slang. As I've argued before, the syntax is very similar, so it's really not like Fray's speaking a whole other language. But I agree with your agreeing with me; Fray's pretty much a foil for Buffy. But as vampiresaiyan said, Fray's pretty much making a "Special Guest Appearance" in S8. So she can't be the star of the show. Which is fine by me. Maybe Part 4 will be spectacularly awesome and completely change my mind, but 3/4 of the way thru, I still rank WatG and NFFY ahead of ToYL, and think it's pretty ironic that Joss's issues have been the real 'weak link' in the season... I actually rank this arc over NFFY, in terms of striking a fine balance between character development as well as progressing the story. NFFY was excellent in terms of character development, but it didn't do that much in the realm of plot progression, but that was because it mainly took part in the periphery. And hey, we all know how I feel about WatG ( ) so let's just let that rest. Thanks for joining in the convo... let's fight!
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witcher
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
Homicidal Bunny
Willow fan forever[Mo0:30]
Posts: 711
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Post by witcher on Sept 6, 2008 2:21:08 GMT -5
I agree. TOYR is here to show us what happened to Buffyverse between Chosen and Fray. It is necessary, because you they can't just say " a huge disaster took away all the magic, and this is how it went down.." As for Melekas personality I think she is done pretty well, if you look at the fact that she is just making a guest appearance. She is brave, dedicated to her work, funny, has family issues... For me TOYL is the best issue so far, because it deals with the main characters, and their relationships, and still is the most "epic" one so far!
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Post by magicegidius on Sept 6, 2008 4:15:50 GMT -5
After reading this it seems to me that evil have organized because of the organization of Buffy. So if Buffy would not have awakend all the slayers, evil would not have had the drive to organize themselve. Or have I maybe not understood this issue?
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Patches
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 19
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Post by Patches on Sept 6, 2008 4:30:08 GMT -5
Finally got back from vacation and found out that issue 18 is out. I haven't read the prior discussion, since I wanted to write something like a review without being influenced by other people opinions. so, the review: The opening scene. Buffy is at the window, watching the Cyberpunk-city below. She doesn’t like cyberpunk much, and is quite disappointed in the way how the world turned out. She also wonders why there is no mention in the watcher diaries (which btw, were found by Mel in “Tales of Slayers” and are actually the source of the tales of slayers) about the whole awakening of the Potentials deal. Or about her newly established Slayer Queendom. Enters Melaka, and her and Buffy are off to patrol.
The Kennedy’s bedroom. “Frak”. Heh. “Ken-doll”. Heh, again. Willow peruses her books, but cannot find anything useful. She also is upset and nervious and babbles a lot. Cute. Ken apparently doesn’t know about the snake affair. She is also becoming more Tara-esque. She calms Willow down and trusts her too much. Watch out, Ken, you are in for a rough ride.
And speaking of rides, we are back in Scotland, the fabled land of wolves, giants and centaurs. The horse and her boy continue their escape into a dark depth of forest. The magical forest. Full of magical creatures.
“How’re you feeling?” “Like I was ridden hard and put away wet.” And the award of the best phrase of issue once again goes to Dawn Summers, Teenager Extraordinaire. You rule, girl.
In a very short conversation Xander and Dawn put two-and-two together and figure that the castle was hit by the evil duo, Warren and Amy, who Dawn really would have liked to stomp. Again.
The private talk is interrupted by group of LOTR rejects. Man, the Scotland is an interesting place. Have to go there someday. Dance with wolves, say hi to Lorelahn, see the Nessie. Anyway, upon seeing the Ent-wives, Xander and Dawn promptly proceed to explain to them just how lame they are. Didn’t like this scene much. It feels like Joss decided to flip the bird to the whole “there is too much fantastic stuff going on” crowd. Maybe the Lorelahn will prove to be somewhat important later, but they are too lame for that. And if we needed a filler page I would prefer more bad horse humor, or Willow and Kennedy discussing who their favorite “Battlestar Galactica” character is. I bet that Willow totally digs Red Dress Six.
And we are back in the future. Melaka’s bro, the Evil Nerd, and Melaka’s boss, the Aquaman, are having secret meeting. Nice scene actually and a good farewell to Gunther. He got to tell off the lowlife lurky thugs.
Mel and Buffy are driving a car. Well actually it is Buffy “driving” a car, because as I understand Mel doesn’t know jack about cars or driving anyway. Buffy at least got to drive Snyder around.
“What’s a brake?” Heh. Nice reference to “Fray” comics. I wonder how brake is called in future-speak.
“Summers, you drive like a spaz!” Heh, again.
And now we are reaching the scene which without doubt will start some controversy. Buffy and Mel find a group of vamps who are promptly start munching on nearby populace. Mel wants to go dust’em, but Buffy knows better. Our girl apparently watched BSG together with Willow, except that Buffy’s favorite character seems to be the Admiral Cain. Strong, powerful, female, leader. So Buffy proceeds to calmly watch vamps killing people, because these are just little people anyway. Not Slayers. Have no importance in the “big picture”. Have to say, totally saw this coming. And I bet there would be an outrage that Buffy is OOC, that Buffy would never do that. Yes, she would. The S7 General Buffy would. And S8 Buffy is even more cynical.
And Buffy is still a bad judge of character and is in no way manipulative. She is still self-involved however, and probably doesn’t even realize that any points which she won with Melaka, points for being a sister-slayer, for being a legendary slayer of the past, she just lost them. Mel cares about little people and doesn’t care about people who want to use them.
“Big picture. That’s spin for govvers. Not slayers. Something’s skew with that girl.” Yep, Mel. You right. Something is.
Enters Dark Willow. And I love her dress.
…Meanwhile, on the magical Plane of Carnal Delight... Willow is visiting her serpentine secret lover. Who has a rattle on the end of her tail. A rather big rattle. Willow is upset that Saga lied to her, but is more set on finding a way to bring Buffy back, instead of having an argument. Saga clearly hides something. Being a magical snake goddess she is probably in contact with Dark Willow as well. At the very least she knows about situation in the future.
Saga asks Willow not to look into the portal when it will open. Is it because she doesn’t want Willow to find something out, or is it because she doesn’t want to see Willow hurt? Or is it a reverse psychology? Well, knowing Willow, she will definitely look into a portal.
Frayverse. Future Dark Willow talks with Mel. Apparently FDW doesn’t have a lot of magical power. This is kind of logical considering, that this is a world where magic almost doesn’t exist. Whatever mojo FDW had she must have used it all up to open the temporal portal. And this time there are no Racks around to recharge. Dark Willow shows Mel some vision which should convince her that Buffy have to be eliminated.
“Well, that went better than I expected”. Buffy had parked the car. Without car Buffy have no choice but to return to Fray/Watchers’ place. She finally meets her long lost twin sister Erin. Who is a law. Well, Buffy always wanted to be a law. Or even “the Law”. And beside they both had a willful and insolent younger sister. Buffy is still upset that Mel is decided to be some dumb hero, instead of being a cool nazi like her. She is also upset that she has a sister Dawn, who she last time was seen talking to one and a half year ago realtime.
"Puffy, can I…” Heh.
Anyway, this whole scene was a set up. Erin had to keep Buffy distracted for Mel to blindside her with a stunner. So whatever FDW showed to Mel in that green vision, it was quite convincing.
Very nice issue. Most of the scenes were good. There was a lot of character development for both Willow and Buffy. Less for Erin and Mel but they are both static characters in this arc. There was a confirmation that, yes, Willow is cheating on Kennedy with Saga. And the best thing of all, we’ve got Slayer vs. Slayer standoff again. I didn’t expect that.
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Post by wenxina on Sept 6, 2008 10:15:59 GMT -5
Can we straighten one thing out please? The lurks weren't out to kill, per se. They were part of a hunting party, as Buffy says, and the people, they weren't being attacked, they were being hoarded. The only person who would potentially have died was the one who ran away. Acceptable loss? In the big picture, yes. Because if they don't figure out where all these people are being hoarded to be turned, the lurks win. Buffy hasn't lost sight of the little people, she's trying to save them. But like S7 Buffy, she's come to realize that she can't save everyone, and not everyone will make it through a war. Casualties, remember? Collateral damage. No, there's no way to make it sound better. I remember reading somewhere that Buffy could've killed all the vamps, and skinned one for information. Can you blame her for not doing that when the last time she did, she lost Renee (and probably many others). While the vampire may not have lied, it probably didn't tell the whole truth. And I'd be equally wary of these vampires. The very fact that they're working together, when vampires generally don't, shows that Harth's charismatic enough to unite them. Add to that, the willingness to die for the cause; the vampire telling the driver to drive away, leaving himself and the others behind. The vampires are looking at the big picture too.
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Post by wenxina on Sept 6, 2008 10:17:53 GMT -5
After reading this it seems to me that evil have organized because of the organization of Buffy. So if Buffy would not have awakend all the slayers, evil would not have had the drive to organize themselve. Or have I maybe not understood this issue? If Buffy had not pulled the Slayer trick out of the hat, there would have been no good to fight. The entire world would've gone to hell anyway. But I think you're right that the arc does raise that question.
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Sept 6, 2008 10:44:55 GMT -5
Reading the posts again, I saw a lot of people loved the "Woah, Summers you drive like a spaz" line, but I have to criticize it by saying it was... stupid. Melaka has been talking so much futuristic slang that it's hard for even some of us to understand it, then all of the sudden she says a slang word that got tired years and years ago, which was the point in Band Candy. It just read like a different character and didn't fit well. Sorry, just a stupid rant. I agree.
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Patches
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 19
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Post by Patches on Sept 6, 2008 11:02:26 GMT -5
wenxina
Checked the issue. Yep, you right.
However they probably wasn't hoarded to be invited for tea and crumpets. And even the big plan of Buffy was to tail the van, find vamp lair, and then rescue people. Well, so many things can go wrong. Buffy could crash the car and lose the van. Some vamps could get hungry on the way and decide to have a little snack. Heck, they well could be turning people inside of the van. S1 Buffy would never allow that. She would jump into the fray ahead of Fray, sorry for the pun. S8 Buffy would let innocent people get hurt for the "greater good".
The point is: this grey morality stuff, it kind of escalates. It never gets lighter, just darker.
You see, its been one and a half year. 18 issues. I have yet to see Buffy, Scoobies, Slayer Army try to actually save people. Not slayers, normal ordinary people. You know, do the thing heroes are famous for.
What we actually have is a gang-war. Slayers aka new kids on the block are trying to cut themselves a new turf and the old gangs are resisting. And as a leader of a new gang Buffy does not particularly care who gets killed in a crossfire.
BTW,
One of the very interesting moments in A Beautiful Sunset was this:
Xander: Well, I was saving this for your birthday but... we did locate a vamp nest.
So. Xander knows of a vamp nest and wants to give Buffy a vamp nest for her birthday. Because Buffy likes killing vampires. Vampires eat people. They are also amoral scumbags. They probably would eat somebody or do something worse before Buffy's birthday will happen. So instead of immediately arranging a tactical team to wipe the vamps out, Xander waits for Buffy's birthday, so that Buffy herself could dust vamps for entertainment.
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Lukee
Ensouled Vampire
Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
Posts: 1,137
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Post by Lukee on Sept 6, 2008 11:18:32 GMT -5
I loved this issue. It wasn't the best but it was still good. The opening with Buffy looking though the books got me thinking if maybe the Final Battle had been erased from history. Like some one was hiding what really happened. Ew naked Willow. I can sort of see why she went with the Snake Women with a tail like that Ee at least now we know why shes working with a vamp, she ain't that all powerful. Wounder why. I so hope Buffy kicks Frays ass!
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Post by wenxina on Sept 6, 2008 13:58:54 GMT -5
Checked the issue. Yep, you right. However they probably wasn't hoarded to be invited for tea and crumpets. And even the big plan of Buffy was to tail the van, find vamp lair, and then rescue people. Well, so many things can go wrong. Buffy could crash the car and lose the van. Some vamps could get hungry on the way and decide to have a little snack. Heck, they well could be turning people inside of the van. S1 Buffy would never allow that. She would jump into the fray ahead of Fray, sorry for the pun. S8 Buffy would let innocent people get hurt for the "greater good". The point is: this grey morality stuff, it kind of escalates. It never gets lighter, just darker. I agree, the morality issue is gray, but the grayness isn't new. And I also agree, that the vamps could get hungry on the way, and turn the victims en route. But that's not something that can be proven, and as I said in an earlier post, that's what Fray is there for, to be a dramatic foil for Buffy. Fray is impulsive, and acts on instinct, exactly like S1 Buffy. But strategy has usually won the fight for Buffy (seen in seasons 3, 4, 5, and 7), so it's not odd for her to fall back on it. And I laughed my ass off when I read your comment about Buffy crashing the car, because that's exactly what she did. Although she did accomplish her mission before crashing it though. You see, its been one and a half year. 18 issues. I have yet to see Buffy, Scoobies, Slayer Army try to actually save people. Not slayers, normal ordinary people. You know, do the thing heroes are famous for. What we actually have is a gang-war. Slayers aka new kids on the block are trying to cut themselves a new turf and the old gangs are resisting. And as a leader of a new gang Buffy does not particularly care who gets killed in a crossfire. While I agree we've not seen the Slayers saving the general populace, what they do does in fact keep the streets safer. Eliminating the Japanese vampire gang undeniably saves thousands from being preyed upon to feed such an army. And while Buffy is no longer actively slaying each night, there's no reason for her to. She's got an army, a green army at that, and they're in need of training and experience. Plus, she's the figurehead of the entire organization, and important enough that there's even an enchantment to protect her while she sleeps. My point is, the show is about Buffy, and where Buffy goes, it follows. And right now, it doesn't involve stalking cemeteries. And while I think your gang war analogy raises some interesting ideas, I think that it's a little harsh to say that she doesn't care who gets caught in the crossfire. I'm not saying that she's saying that all lives are equal; Buffy has shown time and again that the lives of those she cares for inevitably rank above the masses. And if she didn't, I can already see the hate mail claiming that the writers have lost her moral core. Even more so than now. BTW, One of the very interesting moments in A Beautiful Sunset was this: Xander: Well, I was saving this for your birthday but... we did locate a vamp nest. So. Xander knows of a vamp nest and wants to give Buffy a vamp nest for her birthday. Because Buffy likes killing vampires. Vampires eat people. They are also amoral scumbags. They probably would eat somebody or do something worse before Buffy's birthday will happen. So instead of immediately arranging a tactical team to wipe the vamps out, Xander waits for Buffy's birthday, so that Buffy herself could dust vamps for entertainment. I don't think it was meant quite as literally as that. While it's perhaps valid, I don't think Xander meant that he was saving it for Buffy's birthday. She was feeling down, somewhat disconnected, and he was trying to help, by giving her the intel, so that she could do something she hadn't done in a while (she responds "Oh goody! It's been ages"), and to take her mind off her present duties. He could just as easily had sent a team over to take care of it.
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Sept 6, 2008 14:00:04 GMT -5
I think this sort of destroyed Fray's character for me. If I find out that she was working with Harth all along it will really get me upset. Fray was my favorite slayer...they just showed how weak she really is.
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barryshaft
Novice Witch
Sometimes I shouldn't say words...[Mo0:0]
Posts: 224
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Post by barryshaft on Sept 6, 2008 14:27:22 GMT -5
So another issue, another random review. I'm not digging this arc as much as I was the last few, or Whedon's standalones but it's still a fun visit to Fray country. I was surprised just how somber the issue was, we got some nice introspective scenes and some interesting revelations about just how far our beloved heroes have come. I was particularly taken back by just how Willow contacts Saga Vasuki... It's a fairly dark concept and it's definately something that will takes it toll on Willow and Kennedy's relationship should it ever come out. Even more interesting, but perhaps less surprising, was finally getting some insight into Willow and Saga. Clearly there's something between them and it's not something Willow is particularly proud of. There appears to be a mutual caring and respect between the two and while Saga certainly looks evil...I'm not 100% sold on her being anything but mischieivious and a bit of a Ginger-chaser. Kennedy also continues to be fun and I'm glad her character's been brought back to the forefront as I like her quite a bit at this point, she and Willow are very good together... Or at the very least she's very good for Will. Also, Willow said Frak.
Fray and Buffy's story was a little less interesting to me but thankfully Joss tuned down the future speak from last week. We get another issue of contrasts showing how the two slayers operate. Buffy has certainly grown a lot more callous in her actions, opting to let innocents die in order to track the Big Bad. While this isn't a huge shock with the way her character's been written this season it's shocking to see how little she seems to even notice what she's doing. Mel continues to be fun, but clearly we're not going to see a huge amount of development from her in such a limited run. Also Buffy and Erin connecting was nice... even if it was all a lie.
Lastly Xander and Dawn had the smallest part of the story and the least interesting. While it's cool that Xander and Dawnie are off on their own adventure, I'd like to see a little more of what's going on back at the castle...and I could have done without the lame Treeguys... though that may have just been Whedon mocking just how fantastical things have gotten this season... and I'd be fine with that as long as he tones it down from here on out.
Overall a good issue but one that I didn't particularly feel the need to reread as I usually do. The last two issues, while have some interesting developments in them, have ultimately felt like filler...which is strange coming from Whedon. I find it funny that I still find myself preferring other writers to Whedon in this run as apart from Anywhere But Here and A Beautiful Sunset I don't feel he's hit one out of the park, or at least not to the extent that Goddard and Vaughn did.
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rufio
Novice Witch
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Posts: 205
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Post by rufio on Sept 6, 2008 18:41:36 GMT -5
About how Willow contacts Saga Vasuki: It's not really a foreign concept in the buffyverse when magic is equated with sex (Willow & Tara anybody!?). At first it really freaked me out seeing what Willow was doing but the more I thought about it-it's still kind of freaky, but kind of makes more sense...just the fact that she is being sexual with saga vasuki and doing/learning some kind of magic or whatnot.
How Kennedy fits into it is interesting too. She seems very unaware of what willow's doing. Someone mentioned the possibility of Kennedys body being used by Willow to bring forth saga vasuki and if you look in issue 18, especially the first few panels of saga vasuki, her face looks a lot like Kennedys. Just saying, it could be a possibility. And Kennedys mysterious mystical death that was only mentioned once, in like issue 3 is still pretty damn mysterious. What significance does her death hold?
To those who say Time of Your Life as not as strong an arc as some of the previous: It's not even finished so you just simply cant say it's not as good. Plus, I feel this arc will play a huge part in the entire story of season eight. I still feel like I have a lot of puzzle pieces, but no idea what the REAL story is.
And I've only read Fray one time through, but her language in season eight doesn't seem different and really doesn't bother me. It's a different slang but it's not like it's totally impossible to understand! People are acting like they can't even get the point of what she's saying, which is just ridiculous.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Sept 6, 2008 21:35:24 GMT -5
But I agree with your agreeing with me; Fray's pretty much a foil for Buffy. But as vampiresaiyan said, Fray's pretty much making a "Special Guest Appearance" in S8. So she can't be the star of the show. Which is fine by me. Me, too. I knew going in that this was going to be Buffy's sandbox, and Mel was just going to be a supporting character. So I'm not surprised or disappointed by that. I was just disagreeing with the idea that she's been written as a real vibrant, exciting character so far, displaying more personality in these two issues than Renee or Satsu did in all of their S8 appearances. I'm just not seeing that, and think it's more a case of us already knowing her personality, from having read "Fray", and just 'filling in the details' from memory. To those who say Time of Your Life as not as strong an arc as some of the previous: It's not even finished so you just simply cant say it's not as good. I enjoyed the first 3 parts of both NFFY and WatG more than the first 3 parts of ToYL. This story has really seemed to ddrrraaaaggggg so far, and I keep waiting for the pace to pick up and things to get exciting, and it hasn't happened yet. Again, it could be that my expectations for this arc were just too unreasonably high going into it... xi made the point that the syntax is the same, and it is--at least in terms of putting the nouns and verbs and adjectives in the same places. But the slang was actually pretty limited in "Fray"--"rocketship" was good, "toy" was bad, and to "spin" someone was to lie to them or try to trick them, and that was about the extent of it. Otherwise she spoke in a very normal fashion. Compare that to "I fig we stake some lush haunt, lurks come out, we skin 'em for stories, yeah?" No, I don't have any trouble understanding what her meaning is, but this is very different than she spoke in "Fray".
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Post by ilovewillow on Sept 6, 2008 22:05:38 GMT -5
I got my issue today. I thought it was awesome I loved the little Xander and Dawn bit, I would have liked to have seen more of them in this issue. I'm totally for Dander (gag if you must). Not keen on the tree people though. I feel sorry for Buffy since she seems kind of on her own in the big fight and now Fray doesn't trust her and has turned on her. There is a possibility that what FDW showed Fray could be false, in order to get Fray to do what she wants, kind of like in Hells Bells with the demon showing Xander false visions. The sex stuff with Willow and Saga I found to be quite shocking. I feel bad for Kennedy as she has no idea that she's being used like this. I totally agree that Buffy is acting like Giles now, trying to see the big picture in order to make a real difference. I really liked this issue and this arc. This is just my first impression from reading it once, I'll deffo read it again and might modify my post.
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