Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jan 26, 2009 21:29:45 GMT -5
I can't wait for Oz to come back! I relly hope he and Willow get back together... it's not like it can't happen people
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Fireball
Common Vampire
Im fire, and I will burn you![Mo0:27]
Posts: 53
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Post by Fireball on Jan 28, 2009 8:41:51 GMT -5
I enjoyed this issue, it was fun to have Harmony back. I was so pleased to see Clem back also. My only problem? I just cant get my head around how the world would accept vampires, and not Slayers... Id be digusted if I saw what Harmony did to that slayer on TV!
I loved the last panel too... I think it might be my favourite yet, So cute!
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Malsad
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Attack Attack!
[Mo0:37]
Posts: 684
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Post by Malsad on Jan 29, 2009 11:18:11 GMT -5
I only wish there was more Harm and Clem
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Saturn 5
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 638
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Post by Saturn 5 on Jan 31, 2009 5:14:44 GMT -5
Not too keen on this issue. Always been a Harmony fan, loved Disharmony and Harm's Way but this issue left a bad taste in my mouth;
Some points;
1) One good bit is Buffy and Will looking at Harm's sexy photoshoot in a magazine, obviously a play on Mercedes McNab appearing in Playboy (as Charisma Carpenter did the same I wonder if this is Harmony following in Cordy's footsteps once again?)
2) Will still has her Tina Fey thing, I wonder if it's her Sarah Palin impression?
3) I do like Andrews ad for Slayers, is that Kennedy or Vi in it with him?
4) Pretty good explanation by Andrew of the whole vamp-fan cult
5) Also like Dawn having an admirer who's a real stallion
6) What ruins it for me is the death of the new Slayer, it's so tragic, just when her life could have turned around. But like Faith she rejects the sisterhood and goes lone wolf, that's what gets her killed. Thank god Faith came back into the fold.
7) Also don't like the idea that everyone knows of the supernatural now, I guess it's like Dr Who where people know about it but don't really believe it
I read this thinking it made no sense as LA had gone to hell but then I read Angel 16 and that explained it. So what next? Surely Buffy and co will take action against Harmony?
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
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Post by dane5by5 on Jan 31, 2009 7:23:45 GMT -5
This issue is the first card to fall, which will no doubt bring the entire house down. The house being the Slayer organisation. This could be the event which culminates in bringing the Fray reality to fruition.
In this sense, the issue served as a subtle portrayal of the tide beginning to turn for Buffy and Co. It's to the benefit of the story that they started out with a nonchalant reveal of vampies to the public, this will allow the story to build to the climax progressively before everything starts falling apart.
After reading this issue again, I'm surprised that it was not well received. It was a well written issue and the art was great for the most part. Reading it another time, I noticed Jeanty's Harmony is quite accurate in likeness to Mercedes McNab, the only panel which was off was one of the earlier pages which has Harmony sitting in her room, looking at her photo on some website. That panel was so off, it looked more like Buffy.
I can't understand the complaint concerning the writing/issue being "disjointed". The issue flowed very well, in my opinion. I think that complaint has more to do with vampires becoming public knowledge so quickly and without it being explained in further depth.
It was a great issue to start the new arc, and while it appears issue #22 may not deal with the revelation of vampires to the public, I think by issue #23, we'll start seeing some of the fallout. 'Predators and Prey' would be a perfect opportunity to display the Slayers newfound "villain" status, especially with the Government already convinced that the organisation is a terrorist front and with Simone packing some serious weaponry, everything could explode in this issue.
The world hasn't turned on Buffy yet, but if Twilight, the Government and now the Media has their way, it will soon.
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Slayer489
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Why do I feel like this? Why do I let Spike do those things to me?" - Buffy 'Dead Things'[Mo0:0]
Posts: 784
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Post by Slayer489 on Jan 31, 2009 10:50:34 GMT -5
I did enjoy this issue, althoguh I thought there would be more. I find it difficult to believe that they would broadcast a human being killed on television. I thought Harmony would have her own chat show, and Buffy or a slayer would kill or at least wound her on the air. Although, the issue was pretty good considering. I loved seeing Clem again, and I loved the panel with Dawn having the horse try and mate with her haha, made me laugh.
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Saturn 5
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 638
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Post by Saturn 5 on Jan 31, 2009 10:59:05 GMT -5
I loved seeing Clem again, and I loved the panel with Dawn having the horse try and mate with her haha, made me laugh. Joss always said he writes pornography, just when you thought things couldn't get any dirtier
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Post by wenxina on Feb 1, 2009 10:16:51 GMT -5
3) I do like Andrews ad for Slayers, is that Kennedy or Vi in it with him? It's Vi. It's the same commercial that "aired" in #5. Paul Lee did a pretty decent Vi.
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on Feb 1, 2009 16:18:59 GMT -5
Here's my animated version of this issue. Sorry for the long delay!
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ligeia
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 192
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Post by ligeia on Feb 2, 2009 10:04:08 GMT -5
Just got a chance to read it, it is brilliant, as I expected.
Joe, your animated version is impressive.
Vampires are not revealed to public with Harmony. Check Angel ATF #16...
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Feb 3, 2009 22:48:42 GMT -5
Just got a chance to read it, it is brilliant, as I expected. Joe, your animated version is impressive. Vampires are not revealed to public with Harmony. Check Angel ATF #16... I was just thinking that. Could this somehow lead into a Buffy/Angel crossover?? Like Angel coming to visit...since he's famous and all?
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Post by henzINNIT on Feb 13, 2009 15:43:02 GMT -5
Just got a chance to read it, it is brilliant, as I expected. Joe, your animated version is impressive. Vampires are not revealed to public with Harmony. Check Angel ATF #16... I don't think either event really reveals vampires to the public, because they already knew. It's almost a running joke that the public acts like nothing is going on when some undeniably mystical stuff is happening. Buffy season 3 shows that damn near everyone is well aware of the demonic world. Snyder and everyone related to the mayor know, Joyce and the other parents are well aware in "Gingerbread"; and Jonathan makes some remarks in his speech at the prom that makes it clear the high school students aren't stupid either. That, and clearly everyone in Los Angeles must have suspected something was up in Angel season 4 when permanant midnight and fire rain occurred lol. I think whats important here is not that people have become aware of vampires, it's that there are now public symbols of good/relatively harmless vampires, and the demonic world has been embraced and made fashionable.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Feb 13, 2009 17:26:44 GMT -5
I think whats important here is not that people have become aware of vampires, it's that there are now public symbols of good/relatively harmless vampires, and the demonic world has been embraced and made fashionable. Three cheers for hitting the proverbial nail on the head!
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Conor J Lopez
Innocent Bystander
Hum Yum Yang Yow[Mo0:26]
Posts: 18
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Post by Conor J Lopez on Feb 23, 2009 5:59:42 GMT -5
I would be lying if i said that this issue wasnt a disapointment but it was by no means a bad issue. I think we were all under the impression that it was going to be a Harmony centered issue and therefore hyped ourselves up for some comedy gold. However the issue was very different to expectations as Harmony had little screentime.
I do believe though that this issue was true to the show as Harmony always plays a supporting role and in the issue provided the framework for a much larger story.
Another issue i had with the issue was the characterisation of Harmony. The writing was spot on but the problem stemmed from the lack of Mercedes McNab. Alot of Harmonys character came from the actress and much like characters such as Anya, Fred, Amy etc doesnt translate as successfully to the comic medium as other charcters from the verse.
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Reika
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:8]
Posts: 30
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Post by Reika on Aug 15, 2009 14:57:53 GMT -5
I thought this issue was extremely weak. It had to be my least favourite so far and for many reasons, as it had almost no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
First and foremost, the whole making known to the media the vampire/supernatural-world was the thing I disliked the most about it. One of the aspects that didn't make me enjoy as much back then Graduation Day for the epic episode it should've been was specifically because of something similar to this. Once people start to be aware that these supernatual things exist, it can't just be left that way, consequences are bound to ensue. And did we ever see a consequence after that episode? No. People in Sunnydale were as ingorant and as oblivious as ever. And I'm not just talking about people that resided in Sunnydale, I'm also talking about people outside that town. How come there wasn't a huge media broadcast after those events with, I dunno, the title "Principal is turned into a huge freakin' snake then blown up by the students that were graduating, along with the High School"? Seriously, things like that don't just go unnoticed.
I find it hard to accept all in this issue for what's it's worth. When Jane had done the ludicrous and out of nowhere Superstar, the only thing that kept me in place was the fact that after all that craziness she at least had the decency to reverse it all back to "normal". So I gotta say, Espenson really disappointed me with this issue.
I'm not fond of the idea that people seemed to find out all about vampires and Slayers, and didn't seem bothered by it and were just taking it as if it were normal. Come on, the part where Soledad, the 16-year-old Slayer, is killed on broad television and nothing is done about it; are people in the BtVS-verse really that stupid that they think that's just make-believe? Seriously, if I were watching a reality show and a person was killed in it, I wouldn't think of that as cool, I'd be tremendously disturbed by that and the fact that censors hadn't gone as far as trying to conceal that from us, or at least take that part and show it on news channels, show the absurdity of an underaged girl being killed on television and nothing being done about it; no cancellation, no arrestings, no interrogations whatsoever. And now that people have been witnessed to the existence of vampires and Slayers, aren't cientists wondering what gives a Slayer her power, aren't people frightened that all the myths about vampires are true? Unless, of course, people do actually think that's all just fiction or that Harmony is harmless (Ohh, pun-time...). But I still find that really hard to believe, especially as the people who were working with/for her have seen that she can actually morph into an ugly being and then feed on their blood.
I'm assuming as the issue ended, that this is the beginning of the rejection of the Slayers, as well.
Perhaps what doesn't make me as pissed as I ought to be with this issue is the Fray comics. In the Fray timeline, people seem to accept that these "mutants", demons or so, exist among them, or are even somewhat part of their society now. So if this is somehow the beginning of the discovering of the supernatual elements, leading to that, then I guess that's somewhat okay.
I have yet to read beyong this issue, so maybe I could be wrong with my assumptions.
But nevertheless the standing in-between is never good -- either people know nothing about the dark beings that exist out there as it makes for far better storylines and the acceptance of everything surrounding that, or people know about everything and have come to somehow accept it or are grudgingly so accepting it, such seen in Fray. Because that way we can at least be aware of the fact that those surroundings and the people there are nothing like us and our perception of what's real and what's not and what to accept is obviously different.
I have to hand it, though, even if people might not be aware what Andrew's commercial relates to, I guess people simply aren't as oblivious as one imagines them to be when it comes to the supernatural elements in the BtVS-verse. It is another 'verse after all, so maybe I'm just expecting it to be too much like our own.
I assume this has been noted before, but when Harmony's in L.A. in that Creative Artists Agency, it's interesting to know that L.A. isn't the hell-ish place that was left to be known as in AtS's finale. In a fan review I've read about this issue, the fan suggested three possible reasons as to why that is:
Possibly being the 2nd or 3rd theory makes it pretty okay to me, as it'd explain well why L.A.'s back to normal and nothing about what's occurred there was brought up or seems to be discussed among people.
About the Slayer that got killed in this issue, I guess we're to assume that Slayers are still being called after Willow's spell, only needing to reach the right age. But that would still hold inconsistency -- as why would the age of sixteen apparently be the "right age" or why would there be a need to reach a "right age", when that young girl in Chosen playing baseball didn't seem older than 12? If that girl didn't seem older than twelve and that had been 18 months ago, then Soledad should've been around 15 years old, thus older than the baseball girl, and proving that in fact she didn't have to reach a "right age" to be called, but rather it must have something to do with the Slayer line itself. Maybe it's all leading to the Fray comics afer all. The line starting to have gaps in its tagging of girls with potentials and becoming weaker.
A fan also suggested that this could be related with the "wanting" or "needing" of the power that came to the previous potentials seen in Chosen being called, that could've not been present in Soledad until then:
A lot of people seem to have different theories as to why Soledad had only been called now, as to it having to do with first reaching puberty or whatnot. Perosnally, I believe it could have something to do with what I mentioned above as well, about the Slayer line becoming weaker. But I also thought this theory I quoted was pretty interesting.
It could also be noted that the Slayer in The Chain and from this issue were both called when the need for the power came at its greatest, so perhaps that theory I quoted above isn't far-fetched and does make quite a lot of sense; so probably now that Willow's spell had been cast for quite some time, the need for it is enough to proclaim a potential.
Maybe the tag that chooses the potential knows when the girl's ready to have that power, maybe it isn't random, or maybe it is, we can't be sure how it's done and how the line works.
This could also go against most people's assumptions that Slayers stopped exisiting in the Fray timetable because after Willow's spell the line had given the power to all the potentials and then ended, not tagging new girls even if they were born with the potential or whatnot (We still don't know, though, if with new born babies it'd still work, or if it only works with the potentials that already exist), but since new Slayers still seem to be activating after 18 months of Willow's spell, then we're to assume that pretty much the end of the Slayer line could have its reason mostly linked to Twilight and the end of magics and so, rather than that.
Another thing about this subject of Soledad having been called later, is this that another fan mentioned that seems pretty spot-on:
And another thing as to why and how Harmony managed her show: That could be it, but I'm still skeptical about this part.
On a positive note, I did enjoy Buffy's little speech of persuasion to the new Slayer to join the Slayer Army. Heh! It was pretty awful. Poor Buff, she hasn't improved her speech skills even after being considered the "Boss of Bosses". When Buffy's rambling on about the Slayer being part of the family, and that she'll protect her, train her and so on, Buffy seems to catch on that that doesn't seem to be doing it and quickly jumps to exclaiming "Togetherness! Unity! Sisterhood", obviously in bold in clear Buffy-fashion of trying to coax someone in her quirky way.
And the image of Dawn, Willow and Xander and then a stallion approaching them and this all going unnoticed by Buffy was especially humorous and a nice, trivial add that gave to the issue.
[Btw, I haven't read everyone's reviews, so forgive me if I was being repetitive.]
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on May 24, 2010 2:15:30 GMT -5
I enjoy it, i like how Harmony killed a SLAYER.
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mandikaye
Potential Slayer
Captain Peroxide
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 193
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Post by mandikaye on Nov 3, 2010 13:20:45 GMT -5
Two years later and I FINALLY get to read this issue.
I had to read it twice. My first read through left me fairly confused and disappointed. The second one was better.
I like the issue, but am definitely concerned with continuity issues (keep in mind that I haven't read anything past this issue yet so I have no idea if it's cleared up later - nor do I want to know yet).
Looking forward to reading the next 4 issues that just arrived!!
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