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Post by CowboyGuy on Oct 26, 2008 6:21:03 GMT -5
Enisy, what I meant was that I think Buffy was necessary and good for Spike. But I do not think that Spike was good for Buffy very much. He didn't inspire change for her the way she did for him. Honestly the only character to affect Buffy on that level for me would be Dawn. She moved Buffy so, that she gave her own life to save that of Dawn.
I hate to say it but re-watching the series I feel that Spike was kept on as a fanservice. Especially in Season 7, where I feel his role should have been moved to a guest starring...and brought Giles back as a regular.
I do know that he was the one individual who had her back much of the time in Season 7...but he was also the reason why said people did not trust her. It went both ways. After watching the Paley Reunion...it changed my views of Season 7/Spike's involvement. They clearly say that they didn't know what to do with him so he just stuck around till the end where Joss knew he wanted to kill him. Hearing things like that make the moments in that Season a little less sweet for me.
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 643
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Post by Enisy on Oct 26, 2008 13:30:33 GMT -5
Awwww Enisy you are so smart. I should've let you make this thread. Oh well too late now. You did just fine. 'Sides, I've already got a 4282-post thread at DarkHorse. I think season 6 was really damaging to their relationship. I more like them in late season 5 and season 7. Well, those were the seasons in which you were supposed to like them. *g* And also early Season 6 and a few late Season 6 scenes ( Older and Far Away, Hell's Bells, etc.) Thanks a bunch for those icons! I hate to say it but re-watching the series I feel that Spike was kept on as a fanservice. Especially in Season 7, where I feel his role should have been moved to a guest starring...and brought Giles back as a regular. Wow, do I ever disagree... Pretty much any well-structured Hero's Journey eventually includes the removal of the father figure from the hero's life, or at least his acknowledgment of, and reconciliation with the fact that the hero has outgrown him. That's been a gradual process for Buffy and Giles since The Gift, which was sped up by his departure in Season 6, and reached its peak in Lies My Parents Told Me. ("No. I think you've taught me everything I need to know.") Which quote are you talking about? I thought they only referenced Season 4 Spike there. A propos quotes... shameless plug of my Spike/Buffy VIP Quote List: Part #1Part #2Click eeeeeeeeet. Includes gems like: David Fury: Spike and Buffy also have beautiful moments together as their relationship blossoms. It's not quite what Buffy and Angel were. It's not quite what Spike and Buffy were... It's something else. It's respectful of what's gone before. (Dreamwatch, 8-03)David Fury:- Pitched an ending to Joss for Angel, in which Angel wins the Shanshu and then "gives" it to Spike. This enrages Spike as not only doesn't he want it but he hates that Angel gives it to him, even though he could now go to be with Buffy. - He thinks Buffy was in love with Spike by the end of Season 7. (Fan Report, Sacramento Q&As, 2005)Douglas Petrie: You can't really say enough about the chemistry between James Masters and Sarah Michelle Gellar, because it's just awesome. (BBC)Drew Z. Greenberg: I loved the ending of "Smashed" too, our own Thomas Wanker did the music for the final sequence, and I, too, thought it was hauntingly beautiful. I was sitting in the editing bay with Joss and Marti and Marilyn (the ep's editor), and when we heard the music track for the first time, I almost got a little misty... luckily I carry those little travel packs of tissues with me everywhere I go. (2-02)In a perfect world, would Spike end up with Drusilla or Buffy?James Marsters: Drusilla left him for a mucus demon, so definitely Buffy! (E! Online, 4-03)If you could choose between being a human, living once, and a vampire living through many generations and seeing many things, which would you choose and why?James Marsters: Human, definitely. I remember - God this is so powerful, I'm gonna cry. See, here's the actor's secret. What Spike wanted to do with Buffy when he was in love with her? He wanted to give her a garden, a rose garden... (pauses and paces a minute to collect himself, takes a drink of water) (voice shaking) ...because that was alive. (Halloween UK Event, 10-04)Do you have a favourite season or story arc in particular?Jane Espenson: I really loved Faith and the Mayor even though I never wrote for Faith. I thought that was great fun. I enjoyed the Nerds - always! They were always so funny. I've been interested in Principal Wood this year. But my number one has got to be the Buffy and Spike love story. I think that is just a gorgeous story. How do you follow-up her romance with Angel? I like the romance with Spike better. I'm more interested in the heat between those two characters because I felt Buffy and Angel had romantic love. Spike and Buffy have something so much more complicated that it's got that romance and all this other stuff on top of it which makes it so interesting for me. (TV Zone Interview, 2002)Which is your best Buffy the Vampire Slayer scene ever?Jane Espenson: The best I wrote? I think the Anya-seducing-Xander sequence in "Harsh Light of Day" was pretty good... a really high concentration of funny lines. I also like the Buffy-asks-Anya-about-alternate-universes scene in "Superstar". That had the comic runner about the World Without Shrimp. Oh! No! I've got a better one. The scene after Buffy comes back to life, where Spike tells Buffy that he dreams about saving her every night - that was really hard because it wasn't funny and I think I did okay with it. (Ain't It Cool News, 6-03)At long last, Angel is returning to the show. How does that affect Buffy's ongoing love-hate relationship with Spike?Joss Whedon: I wanted to make definite statements about both relationships but I had to do it in the same episode. It was weird. I had a lot of structural juggling to do to figure out how to make sense of the two most important men in Buffy's life showing up at once. (Entertainment Weekly, 5-03)Joss Whedon: I thought this was a sort of romantic image, the two of them. We actually did it with real fire, but their hands were all gelled up and you could tell, so this was added in CGI and it looks beautiful. I thought it was a nice comment on their relationship. But what I basically told [Sarah and James] was: "Play the romance. Be proud of him. Love him when you say you love him. Love her when you say she doesn't love you. Forget about the crumbling world. For that period of time, it doesn't exist. It's a cinematic trick, but it's a necessary emotional one." ("Chosen" Commentary)Joss Whedon: I won't be using the ancillary characters from Angel [in Season 8 of Buffy] unless I absolutely think that nobody else can fit this bill. Spike and Angel I will definitely use, but sparingly. But I would do that anyway. You don't want to use it up by having Spike standing around in the background of every frame. He means so much to Buffy, so did Angel, that you want to save them for the big hits. (GeekMonthly, 2-07)Sarah Michelle Gellar: (on the Buffybot) But I think, again, it's what keeps it fresh. You're playing a character for so long, and you don't want to get lazy. You find yourself relying on certain things, so by taking away all the other parts of Buffy, I did have to find exactly the essence of her again, and... you know, it was fun to be his slave for a little bit... (gesturing towards James) James Marsters: I'm a good master for a little while... (PaleyFest, 3-08)Steven S. DeKnight: Hey, I'm rooting for Spike and Buffy to work things out. That'll give us evil guys a better image. (1-02)Steven S. DeKnight: I haven't seen the shirt [with Buffy and Spike surrounded by a heart]. I have nothing to do with that. I don't know. I'm not sure. ...can I get one? (The Succubus Club, 5-02)
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Post by Emmie on Oct 26, 2008 16:34:12 GMT -5
I think enisy just pushed the "I Win Via Massive Quotage" button. Good button to have in a debate.
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Post by Jsebold87 on Oct 26, 2008 16:56:29 GMT -5
Here's another Spuffy icon that I came across:
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 643
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Post by Enisy on Oct 28, 2008 9:12:35 GMT -5
LOL, thanks for the compliment, Emmie, although I wasn't even debating. Just posting goodies for the fans. Thanks for the icon, Jsebold! Haven't seen that one before! Very pretty. Some questions, if any of you have a moment to spare. Answer any and all you want: Which season did you like Spike/Buffy best in?
Which is your favourite Spike/Buffy episode?
What are their top 3 (or 5) most romantic scenes?
What would you like to see in their inevitable Season 8 reunion?
Who do you like better: Spike or Buffy?
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Oct 28, 2008 13:18:04 GMT -5
I'm not a "real" Spuffy-fan, but here it goes;
Which season did you like Spike/Buffy best in? Season 5. I loved seeing Spike trying so hard to get Buffy's attention.
Which is your favourite Spike/Buffy episode? Crush. I love the loving and hopeful look in his eyes.
What are their top 3 (or 5) most romantic scenes? Hmmm... Since I'm not sure if Buffy ever saw him in a romantic way... In no specific order; *Touched(I think?), when she's lying in his arms. *When they met in the hallway and talked about the night in Touched. *Intervention, when she gives him a kiss as a reward. *The gift, when he tells her she makes her feel like a man. *Beginning of season 6(after life?), when he tells her that he saved her every night.
What would you like to see in their inevitable Season 8 reunion? Inevitable? Not so sure about that.
I want him to say; "You slept with a girl? ...... Is she open-minded?"
Who do you like better: Spike or Buffy? In what way? Over-all personality, Buffy. As a laugh, Spike. Sexually,...
I have to think about that one.
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Kara
Bad Ass Wicca
boys boys boys
[Mo0:28]
Posts: 2,296
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Post by Kara on Oct 29, 2008 22:34:32 GMT -5
Which season did you like Spike/Buffy best in?It's between 5 and 6. I really liked how in season 5 Spike tried so hard to get Buffy to like him and how he was still evil and stuff. I also liked season 6 because of all the sex. It might've been unhealthy but it was sure fun to watch. Which is your favourite Spike/Buffy episode?It's hard to say but probably "Touched" it was sooooooo romantic and cute. I really loved it. What are their top 3 (or 5) most romantic scenes?3.In the hallway when Spike and Buffy are talking about what happened in the episode "Touched" 2. When Buffy and Spike are just laying together in "Touched" 1. Right before Spike dies in "Chosen" when Buffy and him hold hands What would you like to see in their inevitable Season 8 reunion?I want Buffy to choose Spike or atleast let him know he's the one she wants to be with when she *can* be with someone. Who do you like better: Spike or Buffy? Spike.
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slayersarah
Psychic Link to the PTB
Death is peaceful - easy. Life is harder.[Mo0:37]
Posts: 834
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Post by slayersarah on Nov 2, 2008 0:36:20 GMT -5
Which season did you like Spike/Buffy best in? 6
Which is your favourite Spike/Buffy episode? Chosen
Who do you like better: Spike or Buffy? Spike
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CookieDough
Common Vampire
"I've decided to simplify the whole thing: Me like Buffy. Buffy's alive, so me glad." [Mo0:34]
Posts: 66
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Post by CookieDough on Nov 2, 2008 13:57:22 GMT -5
I said this in a PM exchange recently, then repeated it in a public forum, and I'll now copy and paste it to this one: For my part... my first time watching early Season 6, I had been hoping for something like Smashed, because I was afraid I'd find the cuteness and easy intimacy tedious after a while -- and I still kinda feel that way. Those lovely moments stand out so much more starkly, and mean so much more, now that you know what comes next, than they would if the relationship had continued in that vein. Remember what Joss said about Angel/Buffy? -- they were hotter than Riley/Buffy because of what they couldn't do. Similarly, Spike/Buffy is more poignant to me than Buffy's other 'ships because it was generally so bereaved of emotional intimacy, and every second of it was as treasured to me as physical intimacy was to Angel/Buffy 'shippers. (How well do the two 'ships play off each other? It's one hell of a love triangle.) A nice way of looking at it that I had never considered...thanks for the insight!
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moscowwatcher
Potential Slayer
You're the one, Buffy[Mo0:0]
Posts: 106
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Post by moscowwatcher on Nov 5, 2008 5:04:33 GMT -5
Emmie invited me here to spread Spuffy love - so here I am! *hugs everybody* LJ community Fantas_magoria discusses School Hard this week community.livejournal.com/fantas_magoria/People are posting fics, art, meta etc. Very interesting community. Another LJ community, Seasonal Spuffy has a lot of new tasty treats. Obstacles by shapinglight community.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/291621.htmlCompleted, R, future!fic. When Buffy turns 25, her slayer power is gone. She's an ordinary girl, she can't fight, can't slay vampires. And, worst of all, Spike is so afraid to hurt her he can't bring himself to make love to her. Shapinglight ingeniously rewrites Helpless premise adapting it to Scotland setting and older Buffy. The plot is smart and the voices are spot-on. And It Felt Like Breathing by megan_peta community.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/289177.htmlOne-shot, PG, around Dirty Girls. Buffy makes up her mind about Spike. Beautiful glimpse of Buffy and Spike's life. One Little Dance by hollydb community.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/290521.htmlOne-shot, NC-17, goes AU in the last minute of Harsh Light of Day; Buffy and Spike's fight goes in the direction neither opponent could anticipate... Naughty, snarky and funny. It's a Maybe by Avoidingnemo community.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/291073.htmlOne-shot, PG-13 during The Gift. A different version of Buffy and Spike's conversation in her house. Turnabout is Fair Play by Avoidingnemo community.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/290951.htmlOne-shot, R, middle of season 6. Buffy and Dawn visit Spike in his crypt and find out he has a cat. The Widening Gyre by Cindy (cindergal) community.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/291353.htmlOne-shot. R, future!Fic. In a bleak post-apocalyptic future, Buffy dreams of Spike... Dark, sad and compelling.
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Post by Emmie on Nov 5, 2008 22:43:27 GMT -5
moscow watcher, You've got me busy reading all kinds of fanfic today.
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moscowwatcher
Potential Slayer
You're the one, Buffy[Mo0:0]
Posts: 106
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Post by moscowwatcher on Nov 7, 2008 17:58:57 GMT -5
moscow watcher, You've got me busy reading all kinds of fanfic today. Enjoy, hon! Here are new interesting entries on LJ: New fics The Worst Thing by penny_lane_42penny-lane-42.livejournal.com/44209.htmlOne-shot, Angel Season 5, PG-13. In Rome, Buffy misses Spike. In LA, Spike misses Buffy. Reflections, ruminations, rants and, ultimately, realisations that they can't live without each other. Poetic and poignant. Do You Believe? by Rebcakecommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/293165.htmlOne-shot, PG-13, alternate season 4. Buffy hates magic. Because, you know, it's the after-effects of Willow's spell and other magic tricks that draw the Slayer to former nemesis... Deliciously funny and snarky. Spuffy jigsaw puzzles by oraclehollycommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/292794.htmlSeven puzzles (self-contained .exe files) in a single archive (4 mb). You don't need an extra program to run the puzzles.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Nov 12, 2008 23:06:50 GMT -5
Which quote are you talking about? I thought they only referenced Season 4 Spike there. I am unsure of which point it was said, but I have the DVD so I will check for you. Side-note: have you all seen it? The Paley Reunion was fantastic! I only wish that there had been more time for the actors to speak.
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darkfan
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2
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Post by darkfan on Nov 14, 2008 1:58:04 GMT -5
Thought I would give this forum a try, try to make a spuffy shipping thread a little spuffy friendlier.
Which season did you like Spike/Buffy best in? Second half of five, first half of six. There was a real camaraderie and caring there for a while. It was fun and sweet and sexy.
Which is your favourite Spike/Buffy episode? Afterlife. Or Life Serial, the kitten poker scene.
What are their top 3 (or 5) most romantic scenes? Tabula Rasa kiss, end of Smashed, Crypt door in Dead Things, Afterlife: "Everynight I save you" The Gift, "Till the end of the world" Of course I could change my mind later.
What would you like to see in their inevitable Season 8 reunion? Serious smoochies, and declarations of eternal love. Not too much to ask is it?
Who do you like better: Spike or Buffy? Spike.
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moscowwatcher
Potential Slayer
You're the one, Buffy[Mo0:0]
Posts: 106
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Post by moscowwatcher on Nov 14, 2008 17:13:44 GMT -5
Which season did you like Spike/Buffy best in?Season 5 Which is your favourite Spike/Buffy episode?Intervention. What are their top 3 (or 5) most romantic scenes?Intervention kiss, the end of OMWF, "Every night I save you" in Afterlife What would you like to see in their inevitable Season 8 reunion?Tough question. Joss has already given them maximum privileges he could give to any couple - declaration of love and heroic sacrifice. I'm not sure it can be one-upped. Who do you like better: Spike or Buffy?Can't make a choice between them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ New Seasonal Spuffy treats: Spuffy manip by elinoracommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/311431.htmlDoes It Have to Mean Anything? by Pfeifferpackcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/310349.htmlOne-shot, PG, AU EoD and Chosen. Just before the battle against the First Evil, Buffy decides not to let anything wait too long where her two vampires are concerned. How it could have gone if Buffy had managed to face her biggest danger: her own emotions. Primal by Pfeifferpackcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/310711.htmlOne-shot, PG Post NFA. A reunion fic. All the Scoobies have an idea of how it’s going to go, but who really knows Buffy well enough to be certain? Law of Diminishing Returns by Pfeifferpackcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/310815.htmlOne-shot, PG S7 the night before the final battle in “Chosen” Just why might Spike have doubted Buffy’s declaration of love in the cave? Why might he have had reason to be afraid to hunt her down after his return? Just what DID happen that last night? Here be angst. Acceptable Substitute by Pfeifferpackcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/311140.htmlOne-shot, PG S4, a twist on “Something Blue.” What if there were a residual attraction after Willow’s spell? What if that attraction were real? What would a witch do to make it right? Once more, someone else decides what is best for the Slayer. Spuffy drabble by Pfeifferpack community.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/310078.htmlNew Spaikus by mere_ubu (episode: Crush) community.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/307198.htmlcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/307316.htmlcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/307554.htmlcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/307897.htmlcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/308198.htmlcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/308446.htmlcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/308654.htmlcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/309108.htmlcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/309356.htmlcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/309589.htmlcommunity.livejournal.com/seasonal_spuffy/309937.htmlenigmatic_blue has started a new fic Unsuffer Meenigmatic-blue.livejournal.com/117134.htmlWIP, PG-15, post-season 2. Spike discovers Buffy who tries to be "Anne" and decides that he has to help her to become Buffy again...
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Kara
Bad Ass Wicca
boys boys boys
[Mo0:28]
Posts: 2,296
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Post by Kara on Nov 14, 2008 19:01:25 GMT -5
*Hugs Moscowwatcher and darkfan* Yay spuffy loverssssss!!!
Thanks for all the fan fic links<3
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eternalspikefan
Novice Witch
I Can Feel It Buffy...My Soul![Mo0:37]
Posts: 243
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Post by eternalspikefan on Nov 17, 2008 14:07:57 GMT -5
Oh my God! I have been away from here for about a month now and wow. As much as it killed me (Due to stupid real life stuff lol, stupid uni, stupid degree *curses offline life* Okay I'm good now haha) Wow wow wow. The changes are amazing! Spuffy Galore. And lot's of other sections for me to browse through. I have 2 days off Uni...this will be fun. Yay. Fellow Buffy, Spuffy etc fans I salute you Oh and thank you for all the pretties: wallpapers, icons etc!!!
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 643
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Post by Enisy on Nov 18, 2008 15:58:49 GMT -5
*tacklepounces eternalspikefan!!* And Moscow, Darkfan, thanks for taking the time to post here, especially given our history with this forum. Brave souls, the both of you. CowboyGuy, still can't find the PaleyFest quote you're referring to... I don't think it exists. - - - Some of you may have seen these over at DH or BF, but for those who haven't: Prodigious vidder Ryan Deffley[/url] is back with two new Spike/Buffy MVs! Get 'em while they're hot! Breaking InsideDescription: In this video, Buffy dies in battle leaving Spike heartbroken. When Buffy rises from the dead, Spike and Buffy must deal with their complicated love/hate type feelings for each other. Edited on Avid Media Composer. Song: Breaking Inside - Shinedown Die for YouDescription: A tribute to the Spuffy relationship from Buffy's P.O.V.. It shows that even though Buffy hates Spike, she can't help but give into her feelings for him. Edited on Avid Media Composer. Song: Die for You - Megan McCauley I'm still way behind on this Seasonal Spuffy round, but a couple of Spuffy fics I read and enjoyed recently: La Meilleure Revanche by caiaSummary: Just a short angsty one-shot from me this time. Rating: PG-13 Old story, which I only discovered yesterday: First Sights, Last Sights by SelenaSummary: But sometimes, you see echoes in his eyes, and it all comes back. Rating: PG Also, there's a preview up for Issue #14 of Angel: After the Fall (out this Wednesday)! We even see Spike's reaction to the big news of Angel's "condition". GET IT HERE!A propos Shanshu: Would you be satisfied if, at the very end, Angel ended up with Buffy, but Spike got the Shanshu? What about if Spike ended up with Buffy, but Angel got the Shanshu?
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Post by Emmie on Nov 18, 2008 16:39:09 GMT -5
Oh my god, I *love* Shinedown. enisy, that video was awesome. It fit Spuffy perfectly. Would you be satisfied if, at the very end, Angel ended up with Buffy, but Spike got the Shanshu? What about if Spike ended up with Buffy, but Angel got the Shanshu?Well, I'm not sure how Angel could be with Buffy without the Shanshu unless he's still human like in AtF, which is up in the air currently. Of the two, I think Angel desires it for more pure reasons. While Spike has admitted to wanting it in part to keep it from Angel. So I think Angel deserves the Shanshu more. Also since the concept of Shanshu was solely created for Angel, it would feel shifty for it to be given to Spike no matter how much he may deserve it. Plus the way Spike kept from contacting Buffy during AtS season 5 makes me wonder about his hesitancy towards her. Does he want to start up another relationship with her? There's fanfiction aplenty that answers this question, but I'm not really sure in canonverse where Spike is at emotionally. Does his independence mean more now than being with Buffy? If I must pick, I'd say the shanshu for Angel because I think he desires forgiveness most of all. Then Spike would end up with Buffy because I think if he had a choice between Shanshu or Buffy, he'd choose Buffy. Spike talks a lot about wanting "glory and sod all else", but in the end he's "love's bitch". I do know that he was the one individual who had her back much of the time in Season 7...but he was also the reason why said people did not trust her. It went both ways. After watching the Paley Reunion...it changed my views of Season 7/Spike's involvement. They clearly say that they didn't know what to do with him so he just stuck around till the end where Joss knew he wanted to kill him. Hearing things like that make the moments in that Season a little less sweet for me. enisy, I remember something similar to this said by James Marsters relating Joss discussing his character arc for season 7. Essentially saying they 'didn't know what to do with him'. I'm not sure this happened at Paley, though.
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 643
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Post by Enisy on Nov 18, 2008 17:14:25 GMT -5
Plus the way Spike kept from contacting Buffy during AtS season 5 makes me wonder about his hesitancy towards her. Does he want to start up another relationship with her? There's fanfiction aplenty that answers this question, but I'm not really sure in canonverse where Spike is at emotionally. Does his independence mean more now than being with Buffy? If you consider Spike: Asylum and Spike: Shadow Puppets canon (since they're referenced in the two canon After the Fall series, and they got the thumbs-up from Joss)... there's this nice nod in one of Spike's internal monologues ( Spike: Shadow Puppets, Issue #1): Spike: Still, this could be more trouble than it's worth. Pros: - Chance to play hero (again).
- Saving children really puts my champion tally way above Angel's.
- How tough can puppets be, really?
- A reason to journey to the land of cheap massages.
Cons: - Expensive overseas trip with no monetary compensation.
- A puppet beat-down would be hell on the pride.
- Blonde hair would really stand out over there.
- They turned Angel into a puppet, small chance they could do the same to me.
- What if there's an impromptu reunion with the Slayer while I'm away?
- Probably a trap.
There's the "James, we don't know what to do with your character, except we want you to die at the end" Joss-speech (around the time they were filming Beneath You), but A) it wasn't mentioned in PaleyFest, and B) Spike ended up getting one of the very few juicy arcs in Season 7 anyway, so I don't see how it's relevant. They could play the "sacrifice" card again and have Angel "give" it to Spike, I guess, as David Fury pitched for Not Fade Away. However, I'd feel really bad if either Spike or Angel got both the redemption and the girl, leaving the other high and dry -- although I wouldn't put it past Joss. (And I'm very reluctant to reduce the Shanshu to a "prize" and Buffy to "the girl", but that's kinda how they play out from a strictly Angelverse perspective, what with it being set up as a competition in Destiny, The Girl in Question, etc.) Like you, I think the Shanshu is more essential to Angel than Buffy is, and Buffy is more essential to Spike than the Shanshu is, so that's how I'd go about resolving this storyline, again from a purely Angelverse perspective. (Which probably means that Joss is more likely to have Spike Shanshu and Angel end up with Buffy, LOL. ;]) Angel/Buffy/Spike three-way relationship is still the best of both worlds, though. xP
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