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Post by Jsebold87 on Mar 3, 2007 12:15:52 GMT -5
Hey everyone  I just wanted everyone's opinion on something. Was anyone else extremely pissed off at Giles in the way he acted in the episode "Shells"? Here's the quotes to refresh everyone's memory: ANGEL
(to phone) All right, look—
(sighs)
What do you mean she's not on this plane? You just said— Astral projection? Well, is there any way to get her astral over to L.A.? Giles, this is an emergency. No. No, I'm not going— Don't put me on hold.
WESLEY
(softly, to Gunn)
Never a witch around when you need one.
GUNN
It'll work out. It has to.
WESLEY
I've been unreasonable... because I've lost all reason. But I shouldn't be taking it out on you.
(Gunn looks down)
I know you've done everything you can.
(Gunn looks away)
I'm sorry.
GUNN
(quivering as tears well up in his eyes)
So am I.
ANGEL
(to phone) Yeah, I'm still at Wolfram & Hart . What does that have to do with anything? Yeah. I understand.
(throws phone against the wall; it shatters)
We're on our own.I know they said later that Fred's soul was destroyed, but how can they exactly know that for sure without a mystic or a witch telling them that? I personally love Giles, but I didn't like the way he acted here, he wouldn't even listen to what their emergency was which I thought was rude. I know they were at Wolfram & Hart but that doesn't make them evil. So what's everyone else's opinion? -Jess |
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Post by tranquillity on Mar 11, 2007 18:42:42 GMT -5
I think that the fact that they had taken over W&H did make them questionable as to which side of the good/evil battle they were on. W&H go hand in hand with evil so it is reasonable for Giles and co to at least wonder about Angel's loyalty for getting involved with them - afterall, they don't know that Angel did have a reson for being there.
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Post by buffysmglover on Mar 20, 2007 17:44:55 GMT -5
I think that the fact that they had taken over W&H did make them questionable as to which side of the good/evil battle they were on. W&H go hand in hand with evil so it is reasonable for Giles and co to at least wonder about Angel's loyalty for getting involved with them - afterall, they don't know that Angel did have a reson for being there. I agree w/ this, but Giles didn't ask about W&H until further into the conversation. He really was trying to avoid Angel's call. I never really thought about this before. |
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Post by spikeluv13 on Mar 23, 2007 17:32:59 GMT -5
Angel killed giles' love, hurt buffy, made buffy disappear (ran away to LA), etc. Giles never really trusted angel. Understandably. W&H was known to be bad...evil. The two groups had lost most contact. Giles didnt understand why angel did what he did. He never even told buffy about it, so how would giles know?
I totally understand why giles did what he did....sucks for angel and esp. for fred, but giles didnt want to put willow in danger.
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Post by Jsebold87 on Mar 24, 2007 15:27:48 GMT -5
I understand about Giles' side of it, but it was a little selfish of him to not even listen to what the problem was. I would think that there was another person that Angel could have contacted other than Giles to help out, I'm sure with his resources at Wolfram & Hart he could have contacted someone else in Slayer central.
-Jess
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Mayor Of F♥ckville
Ensouled Vampire
DISCO!
Self destructive behavior is becoming quite a hobby of mine.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,170
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Post by Mayor Of F♥ckville on Mar 24, 2007 15:36:08 GMT -5
Giles was being a big clit, just like he was in most of season 7. I hate that Giles acted like he was still in charge when he clearly wasnt. He only did stuff for himself. Like the whole killing Spike plan, he only agreed because that's what he wanted. I've never really liked Giles since the beginning. It seemed as though he thought he was above the others.
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Post by spikeluv13 on Mar 30, 2007 19:37:22 GMT -5
but he kind of WAS above the others... i mean, at the beginning, he was the only adult. he had studied demonology for a very long long time. He was the watcher...He was sup. to be in charge (ie kendra's attitude toward her watcher and toward giles). Buffy just didnt listen.
I agree that in season 7 he was a bit of a butt. A lot of the gang acted like a**es. i mean, look at how xander and willow treated buffy. This was a season later, so who knows what was happening....we will figure it out in the comics, but giles had good reason not to trust angel. most of his own people didnt trust him. Angel coul have tried harder, too.
I think both were being stupid..... but hey, thats just me.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Mar 30, 2007 19:41:43 GMT -5
Well from The Scoobies point of view, Angel might look like he was evil again.
How would Buffy know? There is no way. I wouldn't trust to him either, knowing he was the head of an evil corporation.
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Post by piratesrhot on Apr 5, 2007 9:27:31 GMT -5
I can see Giles' side, but it was still frustrating when I was watching it.
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nmcil
Common Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 54 
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Post by nmcil on Apr 10, 2007 19:20:10 GMT -5
I think that Giles was very much in keeping with they was his character was presented during Season 7. For most the series he never trusted any vampire and had a pretty strict code for the basic traits for demons - mostly he perceived them as agents for evil. And just like with his treatment of Spike, he acted pretty much on automatic - I Don't Trust Your Motives.
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airgirl
Initiative Soldier
Dark Moon
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 337
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Post by airgirl on Apr 27, 2007 8:13:20 GMT -5
And the fact that Giles wouldn't help them with Fred, showed just how far they'd moved away from their do-good, help the helpless stance once they joined W&H. They'd isolated everyone, on their own, it was a good plot device.
In much of series 5, the motivations of all the major characters were ambiguous, I think that's what made it such a strong series. Interestingly, the first time I watched S5 of ATS on TV I hated it, but on 2nd viewing (on DVD) I thought it was one of the strongest.
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Post by xmadxscientistx on Apr 29, 2007 0:32:36 GMT -5
Well, let's look at it this way... Angel wasn't there in the final fight for Sunnydale (whether he needed to hold LA or not). Spike was, but no one but Andrew knew he was alive. Perhaps Giles inferred something from Angel's being unwilling (or unable) to fight the good fight. Maybe the fact he let Spike get burnt to a crisp reflected badly on him. Sure, he didn't know that's what it would do... But how do the scoobies know that?
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Post by henzINNIT on May 27, 2007 18:13:52 GMT -5
Meh anyone attacking Giles on his conduct here should rewatch Damage. Buffy (or Buffy through Andrew more specifically) treated him just the same way.
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Post by henzINNIT on May 27, 2007 18:18:16 GMT -5
Giles was being a big [censored!], just like he was in most of season 7. I hate that Giles acted like he was still in charge when he clearly wasnt. He only did stuff for himself. Like the whole killing Spike plan, he only agreed because that's what he wanted. I've never really liked Giles since the beginning. It seemed as though he thought he was above the others. I find this an interesting viewpoint. I think Giles was much more level headed and selfless than Buffy in season 7 personally. Their clashes were a result of Buffy becoming more like him too I think. Just she was more impulsive. |
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pesk
Potential Slayer
S8H8R
Posts: 140
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Post by pesk on Aug 4, 2007 19:11:59 GMT -5
You would have thought after damage that andrew would have filled the scoobies in on the fact that, you know, angel isn't evil. Surely giles must have known that angel is trying to do good in his own way.
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Post by WolfRamHart420 on Aug 16, 2007 23:03:38 GMT -5
i understand were giles was coming from, i mean even angels own friends ? him until they saw his final plan so i deff don't blame giles because putting my self in that sitch i don't think i could trust angel after he joined wolfram and hart but thats just imho
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Ferg
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 226
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Post by Ferg on Aug 19, 2007 19:21:16 GMT -5
Can you blame him really? If your friends took over an giant evil corporation, would you trust em?
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balesthebloody
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Angel's gettin' some! Good on you mate!"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 733
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Post by balesthebloody on Aug 19, 2007 20:28:47 GMT -5
I think that Giles was right to question what Angel was doing. For all he knew he could have been talking to Angelus. I am sure the way Angel acted when Andrew took away the slayer didn't help matters much. Angel was rude to Andrew and Angel knew that Buffy and the others could take better care of the girl then he could. The job just went to his head.
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emarie
Innocent Bystander
Posts: 34
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Post by emarie on Jan 8, 2008 8:36:32 GMT -5
I get where Giles is coming from however it wasn't his place to decide whether to help or not. It was Willows'. Can you imagine how she'd feel to know what Fred needed help and Giles kept it from her? Also did Giles dismiss having an old one return? I assume he did since Angel would have to explain what happened to Fred. Everytime I see Illyria open the portal I always wonder how Giles would have reacted if her army was alive and he didn't get the slayer army to stop it.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jan 8, 2008 17:39:11 GMT -5
Willow wasn't available. Giles is a decent guy. He helped Angel in Buffy season 3 despite the toture, and was clearly more responsive earlier in Angel 5 as he sent Andrew after Angel wanted assistance. I think the response Angel got this time had a lot to do with his attitude in all honesty. As I said already, Willow wasn't available, so Giles simply couldn't do what Angel wanted, and Angel was being a bit of a prick, so he hung up. I probably would lol
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