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Post by lightandmagic on Jul 18, 2009 0:06:56 GMT -5
The Jasmine episodes I thought were an improvement. Cause Condelia was finally over. Blech. I found when I watched the season last time, if I took out the Condelia sections of the episodes, they were generally pretty good, but with them it just makes every episode seem so: "Nooo. Please stop that. Now. Augh. Grosssss!" And really, any time Faith drops by you can guarantee awesome-ness. Even if you don't like her, you have to admit, her cameos always make amazing episodes. She sure knows how to steal a scene.
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Post by Emmie on Jul 18, 2009 0:40:44 GMT -5
I fully admit to fastforwarding through the Condelia scenes and found I really enjoyed Season 4 a lot more.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Jul 18, 2009 1:21:57 GMT -5
I never really understand the hate for Condelia, when it never was Cordelia. Was their relationship twisted and messed up? Yes. Did the show tell us it was twisted and messed up? Yes. I can live with it. The relationship gave us some great Connor stuff too.
And on the subject of Season 4, everything besides Shiny Happy People - Peace Out, (the worst arc of the Buffyverse), is simply superb. It's just a shame nothing good, story-wise, came out of all the build up.
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Mathieu on Jul 18, 2009 1:25:08 GMT -5
It's not really the Cordelia/Connor relationship that bothered me the most, even though I did not care for it, but Cordy's evolution as a character just didn't make sense to me at all. I couldn't see where they were going with her. And she finished laying in bed in a coma, but it felt like the whole thing came out of nowhere. And her death was rushed in Season 5. The whole thing was handled badly. It makes me sad because I can totally see Cordy going from the high school slut to the Big Bad in Season 4 of Ats, with an epic finale where she would have been defeated in a tragic way. A la Becoming Part 2. Instead her behavior made completely no sense from A to Z. And I think I still don't know if at the end of the day she was good or evil. She was just blah, that's for sure.
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stakey
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Post by stakey on Jul 18, 2009 9:08:45 GMT -5
Personally I love angel season 4. Jasmine was kinda out of the blue and random but as a rather last minute idea I give kudos to joss and co for trying something slightly different to the usual big evil trying to destroy humanity...but rather a big bad trying to almost save humanity. It was interesting, but ultimately didnt fit with the rest of the season.
I think the original idea for evil cordelia minus pregnancy would have obviously been spectacular...and we got a taster of it with inside/out, charisma was so deliciously evil and sinister in that episode I loved it.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Jul 18, 2009 10:52:52 GMT -5
I never really understand the hate for Condelia, when it never was Cordelia. Was their relationship twisted and messed up? Yes. Did the show tell us it was twisted and messed up? Yes. I can live with it. The relationship gave us some great Connor stuff too. Karma. I don't like the way Cordelia is used in S4 either, but the Condelia scenes don't bother me. I actually quite like how effed up they are. I don't understand why fans always complain about it being creepy and weird, when it's clearly deliberately creepy and weird, and characters react the same way the fans do. It's not like the writers thought, "You know who would make a really cute couple..."
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Post by Wyndam on Jul 18, 2009 11:40:51 GMT -5
Yeah I can understand being creeped out and wonder wtf is going on when you first watch Season 4, but after learning that it wasn't really Cordy, I don't see any reason to keep hating the two together. It never was Connor and Cordelia. It was Connor and Jasmine. This thread really derailed.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jul 18, 2009 17:10:10 GMT -5
The problem is that even when you know it wasn't really Cordy, you still have to watch a favourite character being crap for a full year, which is sad. It's not actually a problem stemming from Carpenter's pregnancy, I think it was a terrible idea from the off. When Joss found out his plans had to change, I think it would have been better to introduce a new love interest for Connor and leave Cordy in the heavens.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Jul 18, 2009 18:21:57 GMT -5
All could have been made right if Joss decided to keep Charisma around for Season 5. You're Welcome is a perfect episode and an amazing send off for Cordelia, but it doesn't redeem the fact that she was gone for an entire season. (Aside from the first three episodes, where she had about 2 minutes of screentime)
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Whedon Fan
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Post by Whedon Fan on Jul 19, 2009 4:18:47 GMT -5
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Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jul 19, 2009 5:36:06 GMT -5
I watch all of season 4 apart from the Jasmine arc. I watch it up until Cordellia goes into the coma and then I watch the episode where Jasmine is defeated then go right onto "Home" Aww, don't skip The Magic Bullet! It's awesome.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Jul 19, 2009 11:53:58 GMT -5
I watch all of season 4 apart from the Jasmine arc. I watch it up until Cordellia goes into the coma and then I watch the episode where Jasmine is defeated then go right onto "Home" The Jasmine arc is the highlight of the season for me. I love Jasmine.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jul 19, 2009 13:40:55 GMT -5
I prefer the Jasmine arc to the Cordy one, but I'm often exhausted by then so I don't feel like watching it.
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