Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on Feb 22, 2008 17:18:01 GMT -5
I hate to say it. But I think this is my least favorite out of the 4 thus far. It lacked action...and Illyria, and Gwen, and Connor. I hope issue 5, covers it up. And even though Wes poofed, I do hope he's back for the big battle next issue. I don't know if I like Groo in it...it just didn't feel right. Anyway, Lorne better stay on for the rest.
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Post by hunter233 on Feb 23, 2008 3:01:40 GMT -5
Oh yeah, Gunn. The more I see of him, the more I'm starting to buy into the school of thought that he was vamped by Spike (it obviously wasn't Angel, after this issue). His behavior doesn't necessarily require half a soul, but that would definitely account for some of it, like wanting the picture of his friends, the attempts to do something good.
Maybe Spike thought that half a soul would be enough, and better than just letting him die?
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Post by nottfadeaway on Feb 23, 2008 4:29:13 GMT -5
Getting vamped by a vampire who has a soul doesn't make any difference; remember in "why we fight" when the guy inquired about it to Angel, and Angel responded "I don't think it works like that chief."
Even when Spike didn't have a soul, he still had human attributes. Remember Darla's quote from angel season 1: "What we were informs all that we have become, simple death won't change that."
I mean when Spike didn't have a soul he still vamped his mom so she could be with him...out of something seemingly similar to "love".
And I too was nervous about having Groo in there, but man bryan nailed his voice. And it makes sense with context to the series. I also was a little nervous about Lorne coming back, because I loved his exit, but man that was handled so well.
I'm really excited for the next issue!
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 643
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Post by Enisy on Feb 23, 2008 5:37:10 GMT -5
Bringing my post over from IDW...
This issue was basically all exposition, but it was executed quite gracefully. Every time the dialogues came close to dragging on, some quip or twist or change of setting popped up to pique our interest. And if the upcoming covers and Chris's "biggest cliffhanger yet" announcement is any indication, Stuff will be happening soon.
So... Angel is, indeed, human. Wonder if that will last, and what it will entail for him. It seems to have been done to him to keep him there, but did they consider the contingency of him managing to get out? Hm. Also, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but if Wesley knew Angel was human all along, what was up with his "Something in the room should be [alive]" remark, back in Issue 1?
Got nothing to say about Wesley, by the way. I'm still almost entirely clueless about his agenda. Hope that will be cleared up for us soon, because he was one of my favourite characters in the TV series, but I'm having difficulties hooking into him in Angel: After the Fall, in this state.
Been rewatching Angel, and it's more intriguing (and bittersweet) than ever to follow Gunn's arc, knowing where he ends up. Tragic. Got his highest high in the comic so far, though, and I was proud of him. He seems to be as soulful a soulless character as the Spike of Buffy Season 6, so far, even though his lack of a moral compass occasionally leads to the beating of adorable floating fishies.
Spike got a sizable amount of pagetime in this issue, which answered some of my questions (and raised more, but that's beside the point). Good to see he's worried about Illyria, and Angel, and his position between a rock and a hard place. Shows he's still in there somewhere under the pink pyjamas. (Ahh, Franco's Issue 5 cover is making me nostalgic...)
I'm not sure I agree with the comparisons between the Spike/Harmony dynamic and the Spike/Spider dynamic. Spike had Harmony wrapped around his finger, which is why his harsh behaviour towards her (which continued even post-soul) was reproachable, but Spider seems to be pulling a few strings of her own. Speaks well of him that he's not making with the nice-nice with a girl who's encouraging him to manipulate Illyria and to kill Angel, I should think. (Having seen the pertinent cover, I'm not sure what would be worse: having Spike attempt to kill Angel for real, or go through yet another "is today the day that Spike will go evil?" mislead. But if the fight's gonna happen anyway, it would be nice if some personal issues came to the forefront with it, as in Destiny.)
You know, I would frame that panel where Spike's holding something resembling Buffy's Scythe ("more homemade" than the real thing, according to Brian) over a decapitated Spider, but I'm not loving the implications about Spike and Angel getting shipped off to Fray. On the other hand, maybe I'm getting it wrong and that's not how the timeskips actually work. Maybe they don't necessarily mean that Spider had met Spilliam back in the day, or that Spider will hang around that long before Spike decapitates her, or that Spike and Angel will survive that far into the future. And maybe they're just illusions. Who knows.
Agree with everyone who said there's probably more to Lorne's situation than meets the eye. Nice to have him back, at any rate. His wit had been sorely missed.
I know some people thought the cameos were too much, but I loved them. ("Mmm, Angel...") The Loan Shark is getting more screentime, hee! Joss must have loved that idea. Also, gotta say, I never warmed up to Groo in the TV series, but I can already tell he fits right into the Hell-A setting. The comic medium's lack of wigs is doing him as much good as it did Liam in Issue 3, too.
Art getting better, way better. (Might be the improved colouring/shading?) Angel looked a lot like David Boreanaz here, and Spike (and Spider, I have to admit) was preeeetty. Cordy and Fred... didn't much resemble Cordy and Fred, but it's Franco's first time drawing them, so I'll cut him some slack. Finally, I like the freedom the comic medium gives you to use more exotic and colourful creatures, like this "Francis", without them ever coming off gratuitous.
Bonus Fanish Comment: YAY! Bar Alley fight!
Favourite lines:
"See, this is what happens when we vent. People overhear, it's a whole thing."
"Wesley, you're looking... ...um, I like the retro transparent thing, it's good."
Almost all of my reservations have been dispelled, and at the same time I'm still biting my nails over the recent and future developments (which is more than I can say about Buffy: Season 8). Bwee.
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Post by buffysmglover on Feb 23, 2008 10:46:48 GMT -5
Okay, I was not too impressed with this issue. I mean, I may need to reread it because I ws a little distracted, but seriously I preferred Issue 1, and we all know how Issue 1 compares to Issue 3...
So, the whole Groo thing. LONG HAIR?! What the hellA? He better have that hair cut off in the next issue, because he's the only one I can see that Mystery Person as being. And his angry face in that Issue 5 cover is because he finds out about Cordelia (if this is true, why wouldn't he have been told already?). I really wish they hadn't given him long hair. It's only been around 2-3 years. Does hair grow that long that fast?
LORNE: Yay, Lorne's back. My BIGGEST problem with this issue: Franco's Lorne in AtF is hideous compared to his Lorne in Shadow Puppets. I don't know whose decision it was to make Lorne look like that, but it wasn't good.
Again, I need to reread it, but it's probably my least favorite issue so far.
BY THE WAY, NO NEED TO POST SPOILER WARNINGS. If someone doesn't want spoilers, they have no business in this thread until they've read the issue. And that goes for every issue's thread. See my post about this in the Season Eight board.
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
Claimer of Funn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,174
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Post by jellymoff on Feb 23, 2008 11:43:44 GMT -5
I get the feeling we will find out all of these little details we are wondering about, including why Groo's hair is long. Not that this is the foremost issue on my mind, but it seems to be the first question everyone asked as soon as he showed up. I have been impressed so far with they way they seem to answer all my questions in short order and don't make us wait toooooo long. I'm interested to see how he got there at all, and what he's been doing for the last few years. Not really one of my favorite characters, but I think he could have a place in this battle. We'll see. Can we have #5 now please?
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Feb 24, 2008 11:44:56 GMT -5
I thought that everyone on the fifth cover just looks angry because of the fact that all of the Justice League characters look angry on the original cover...
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balesthebloody
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Angel's gettin' some! Good on you mate!"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 733
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Post by balesthebloody on Feb 24, 2008 12:28:41 GMT -5
It was nice to see some of the ally battle this issue. Lorne is back! Yay! Love that guy! More time slips...wonder what is going on there!? Groo?!?! Why Groo? Sorry just not a big fan of him. Wes went poof! NO!!!
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Feb 24, 2008 13:01:10 GMT -5
Bales, love your icon thinger. Awesome scene!
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Post by itmustbebunnies418 on Feb 25, 2008 2:09:29 GMT -5
I'd like to say that...this sucks...
All my local comic book shops only got like 5 copies of this in (which covered hardly any of the subscriptions...) and since I don't subscribe, I couldn't pick it up!!! *angry*
I would subscribe, but sometimes places get it in when others don't, or vice versa, so it'd be stupid to subscribe to one place...
I have to wait until next wednesday...
LAME
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Post by Wyndam on Feb 25, 2008 13:50:38 GMT -5
I still haven't gotten my issue from TFAW yet...should be here by the end of the week though. I can't wait!
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Feb 25, 2008 16:19:26 GMT -5
Where do you live, Wyndam? I got my back-up copies from TFAW this afternoon, and I live in NY.
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Post by Wyndam on Feb 25, 2008 17:18:36 GMT -5
I live in Virginia.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Feb 25, 2008 18:27:28 GMT -5
Hm. I bet you'll be getting it tomorrow then.
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Post by Wyndam on Feb 25, 2008 18:34:55 GMT -5
Yeah it shipped Sunday and usually takes around 2-4 (business) days to show up. As long as it comes before Thursday, because that's when I leave for Spring break. Also have the first 3 Buffy Omnibus's on their way as well, so I hope they all show up at the same time.
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airgirl
Initiative Soldier
Dark Moon
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 337
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Post by airgirl on Feb 28, 2008 8:39:38 GMT -5
It showed up on the shelves in the UK this morning - happy days!
Like some of you guys, it was my least favourite issue, too much exposition. Hopefully though, this one sets up for a best ever issue for #5.
It's great to see Lorne and Groo too, but I think they have assembled all the characters way too quickly, it's taken the mystery out of who is and who isn't coming back. Know what I mean?
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Post by Giant Michael on Feb 28, 2008 12:42:35 GMT -5
I enjoyed this issue. Lots to mull over. I've been very vocal about not wanting Lynch to ruin Lorne's exit in 'Not Fade Away', but he handled it very well. Still not sure about Groo, but I was never a big fan of his on the show...
Also, am I the only one who thinks Spider looks like Cordelia?
MB x
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Sacred Simplicity
Common Vampire
Oh blessed sockies! You still have dryer smell![Mo0:0]
Posts: 73
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Post by Sacred Simplicity on Feb 28, 2008 13:27:04 GMT -5
At long last, I've got hold of a copy, do you know how tricky it is to find a comic book store in England? Tis stupid. I needed my Angel fix!
Can't say this one blew me away, but it was still pretty good, I'd missed my Lornikins, and we had a cool cliffhanger ending, with Wes going all disapeery and everything. And the arts growing on me. Its kind of odd and airbrushy, but I'm beginning to like it. I still prefer the art Urru did for Asylum though, I think he was a lot better with Spike's likeness than Angel's.
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barryshaft
Novice Witch
Sometimes I shouldn't say words...[Mo0:0]
Posts: 224
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Post by barryshaft on Feb 28, 2008 16:31:31 GMT -5
Another solid issue, a lot of exposition so it didn't stick in my head as much but we got a lot of good stuff. So I was wrong about Groo coming back...way way wrong. And I'm sort of glad I was, I really didn't like him on the series (I'm not a fan of the Anya-type "I don't understand" humour) but his appearance made me laugh several times this time out. But, I stand by it...I really don't think it's Groo on Issue 5 with the short hair....with the ending of this issue I have a feeling there's going to be a bit of a conflict between Present Wesley and Old Time Wes (as seen in the variant cover) and I personally think they're both Wes on the cover.
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Post by Brian Lynch on Feb 28, 2008 19:03:01 GMT -5
They're not both Wes.
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