brandonr
Potential Slayer
"That's mine." "Well you're about to get it back."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 168
|
Post by brandonr on Jun 11, 2008 18:38:16 GMT -5
I thought this issue, like the other First Night issues, was a bit bumpy. I agree with what was said above about the issues not really fitting tonally with the rest of the story, and I actually could've waited to find out this information until a much later date. But, I'm not going to completely judge because we don't know what's coming up, or how the bits and pieces of seemingly scattered info we did get will play out later.
I loved the Gwen story. That was completely on point for her character, and just a greatly emotional piece, all told neatly within 7 pages. It's interesting that LISA is broke now, and Gwen's powers are all wildly out of control. I'll have to go back and re-read the first issues, but I don't remember seeing anything that would've hinted at this except for maybe her wearing her gloves again. If she is indeed wearing her gloves, I should've wondered back then why she was, when she should've been able to do well without them since she had LISA. (And, is it just me, or does "Nate" look too much like Natan Fillion for it to be called uncanny?)
The Civilians story was quaint, but could've been left out. Throughout that story, which occupied, thankfully, the least amount of pages in the book, I was trying to grasp for something that made sense, because the boy protagonist was really all-over the place. Great, he's validated because the end came, but he's going to go on now, saying that "The end of the end is near." Huh? Comical, maybe, but still, huh? Though, it did yeild one of the funniest lines of the entire ATF run thus far: "You all thought I was crazy just because I said the end of the world was coming and I also live in a box and sometimes smell like pee!" The art here was weird too, but in a good way. The boy reminds me of someone, but I don't know who. And the woman, she goes from looking like Dana Scully (panel 4 of the 2nd page of the Civilians story) to whats-her-face from "The Shining" (page 3, panel 2).
Gunn's story was not the best of this issue, because that right is Gwen's. It was awesome how he staked his sire without waiting for any explanation of his mumbo-jumbo, and this could possibly explain the posse of vamps Gunn now commands (in killing his sire, did he take over the group that "saved" him from the alley?), but I found it all too....underwhelming. I agree with what iloveromy said, that it would've been more fitting if Gunn had've gotten sired by some crazed vamp looking for food. It would've been all too easy for a vamp in the crowd of demons the A-Team was fighting to see Gunn down and seize the chance to turn him. And of course he'd still think Angel was responsible. I truly hope that the group of vamps that stole him from the alley will turn out to have some kickass purpose in the overall story because if not, Gunn's siring could've been done much better.
So, I'm not going to go into much more negatives, because as I said above, I don't want to completely degrade this thing because A) I love Angel, B) I love Joss, and C) Joss trusted Lynch with his awesome-opossum characters, and therefore, Lynch has my trust too. I'm going to exercise some "Lost" will power and wait for all to be revealed before judging what has come before.
|
|
|
Post by mattitudev2 on Jun 11, 2008 19:44:52 GMT -5
For some reason, I imagined the boy in the civilians story to be played by Michael Cera.
|
|
|
Post by hitnrun017 on Jun 11, 2008 21:13:46 GMT -5
Pretty good issue.
I loved Gwen's story, favorite after Wesley. It was heartbreaking! Very good character development, it made me love her character more then I already did. Like iloveromy mentioned, I would of liked it better if it was inner monologue, but it worked it out great. I also Nate looked exactly like Nathan Fillion. I feel like Gwen will play a big part of getting out of hell, it seems her powers will come in handy, and with the Gunn mentions, I feel like something will happen between the two of them, hopefully he wont kill the poor woman.
I thought the Civilians story was a nice touch, but I would of liked to be Nino or maybe Groo, I think we deserve to see what happened to them. Why did Nina decide to stay in LA? Why was Groo in LA?
I liked the Gunn story, it was a hard read, made me pissed at Angel! How could he do that?! I was little let down by who sired him, but I can't wait to find out more about this "inside line" and why they decided to turn him.
|
|
|
Post by hunter233 on Jun 11, 2008 22:15:53 GMT -5
So.
I have to admit straight off the bat I was biased coming into this issue. I really liked an idea Wyndam had posted about the major villain behind everything being Angelus, who Wolfram & Hart had split apart from Angel during that teleport/humanizing dealy. And I loved the idea that it would have been Angelus who had sired Gunn. So I find myself very disappointed that this was not the case, which I'll admit was unfair. That said, I do find it kinda of weird that we kept getting told that "this is the issue where you'll find out who sired Gunn," only to discover it was a nobody. They could have said "Gunn gets sired in this issue," and thus left out the implication it was someone we knew. The other problem I had with it is that I was hoping this story would explain why Gunn would have ever drank the vamp's blood. Since the beginning of the series, even though I've enjoyed Vamp Gunn, I've been bothered by the fact that it seems to me Gunn would fight to oblivion before he would ever drink a vamp's blood to be turned. I was really hoping this issue would justify that.
Otherwise, the Gunn story was very interesting. It was nice seeing how Angel freed the dragon, along with other details of the alley fight. I also very much enjoyed Gunn's internal dialogue. It got his character dead on, and I was honestly much more heartbroken by seeing his dread at realizing he's a vamp now than I was by Gwen's tale, and maybe even more than Wesley's tale. The panel of him being dragged to the vamp while desperately screaming for Angel's help tore up my insides more than anything since Wesley's death. I had to fight from tearing up in the middle of a restaurant. Well played, Lynch, well played. I found it a little odd how quickly he accepted his role as the new boss of the vamps so quickly toward the end, but I'll chalk that up to limited page space and/or the demon inside him now. The stuff about the inside line is definitely intriguing. My first thought was "Powers that Be?" It seems unlikely, but who knows? Second thought was that maybe they have visiony Drusilla on their side, but if that was the case I'd prefer that she were the one who sired him. Wherever that goes, it's a neat little hint. Oh, and finally, nice touch having him lose his eye in the alley fight. Neat little nod to all the non-canon post-NFA comics. Why he'd heal that up and yet still not heal that scar doesn't make much sense, but that I'm happy to overlook.
The Citizens one seemed pretty pointless. A little bit of good humor, but not much to it. I don't even feel it fulfilled its intended purpose of giving us insight into how the general population took the transition, considering we saw it all through the eyes of a homeless crazy guy.
Gwen's was good. I had been under the impression that LISA only controlled her electricity, allowing her to touch and such, rather than turning it off completely. But I guess we never saw her use it after that, so I can easily accept that I was wrong. It was neat seeing the barrier erected, even neater seeing her attack said barrier. This definitely supports the people who believed Hell was unleashed on LA, rather than LA being sent to a hell dimension. I wonder if she just stuck around Santa Monica since then until Connor found her (I imagine she'd be easy to find, what with lightning flying around and all). I too, saw Nathan Fillion. At first I was thinking "Hm? Caleb?" haha. But yeah, good story. Her talking to the corpse was a little odd and off-putting, but oh well.
Can't wait to get back into the main story!
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Jun 11, 2008 22:34:29 GMT -5
I actually disagree with those who disliked the Civilians story. It was actually the only segment in this book that I really liked. The Gwen story was okay, but the art, not so good. The Gunn story was good, and I liked that it was a random vampire that sired him. As for why would Gunn have drank the vampire's blood, I think he was pretty out of it by the time that happened. Swallowing is a reflex, as anyone who's ever had to give a dog her medication will tell you, so there are many ways to make someone swallow, even if they were in any shape to protest. Gunn wasn't. The art, I didn't like so much, but whatever.
Back to the Civilians story... I thought that the art choice was kooky and worked solely because the story focused on a guy who many of us would probably consider to be a few nuts short of a trail mix. However, I really liked how it ended, but I'll concede that it probably worked for me since it was so far removed from the normal Angel stories that it read almost like a random vignette, except that there were tentacles popping out of manholes.
However, I am happy that we will be returning to present continuity next time. First Night has been interesting, but the quality of the presentation (not the ideas, rather the art, layout, etc) has been rather spotty to me. I've enjoyed them all, in fact, I really like some of them (i.e. Lorne's, Kate's, and the Civilians'), but there have been some that I could have done without. I have to agree with whoever said that Betta George seemed wasted in this issue... there really was nothing much gleaned from his page, and it seemed almost forced, just to keep with the Betta George bookend deal (although he didn't close the book this time).
|
|
Rachster
Bad Ass Wicca
♥Koala Girl♥
Rachster previousily know as buffyfanforever. :][Mo0:34]
Posts: 2,344
|
Post by Rachster on Jun 12, 2008 2:02:36 GMT -5
I found this issue kind of boring ...i cant believe i just said that but i did, it had no real omg moments and i really didn't like Civilians story I'm still loving ATF but this is probably my least favorite issue so far.
|
|
|
Post by charlesgunn on Jun 12, 2008 2:09:19 GMT -5
The issue was a little uneven, however, it was still incredible. Gwen's story was heartbreaking and I, similar, to others saw Nathan Fillion as Nate.
The Civilian story was awesome. The character was interesting and from re-reading, I believe, was the new person that gained the visions from the PTB after Doyle and Cordelia. He spoke of the PTB and the message that he received. Since he wasn't part demon or a part of Angel Inc., I could sense that he had no idea about relaying his visions to Angel Inc. I foresee, if he is successful, in relaying his visions to Angel in order to help LA. (In the later issues)
Gunn's story was tragic. The Gunn from issues 1-5, makes more sense after reading this issue. He feels betrayed. This is a constant theme throughout the series. I feel remorse for Gunn and what he has been through, even though Angel needs to stop Gunn's master plan. Out of all the vamps that Angel has dusted, Gunn will affect him the most. (More than Darla)
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Jun 12, 2008 8:30:45 GMT -5
Well... if he's the new link to the PTB, and he's not part-demon, someone's head's gonna go kaplooey soon. Hey, I thought Angel now had the visions! Didn't Cordy pass them on to him when they kissed in "You're Welcome"? Granted it's been a while since I've watched that ep (just finished up to "Damage" so far)... I could have sworn that the visions were passed on to Angel, and that's how he came up with his bizzaro plan at the end of S5.
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Jun 12, 2008 8:33:19 GMT -5
No, Angel said that the vision was a one-time thing. He only got that one vision about the Circle of the Black Thorne.
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Jun 12, 2008 12:29:46 GMT -5
Wonderful... thanks for clearing that up for me. I'm plodding my way through S5 when I can... I usually squeeze in 1-2 eps per night.
|
|
richie
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:1]
Posts: 170
|
Post by richie on Jun 12, 2008 16:33:18 GMT -5
gwen story was great... i didn't like the art of the civillians... it was cool to see the other part of the thing... but really didn't like it...
gunn history??? was gre.... wait for it.... at it...... really good.... now it wait for the next issue :/
|
|
|
Post by angeliclestat on Jun 12, 2008 17:24:08 GMT -5
Another great issue. Am looking forward to reading all of the First Nights in one go now:)
Gwen - Im a sucker for Gwen. Loved her in the show ( wonder why:)) and am glad shes back in the comic. Love that even a year and a bit after Players she is still hesitant about sexual intercourse. Very in character and her anger and frustration when her powers came back worked very well. Loved seeing the city change in the background- very interesting.
Civilians - Not much to say about this. Was fine, but wouldnt be a major re-read for me. Like others I would have preferred a general populace in terror kinda story. Buts its fine for what it was/
Gunn - Possibly my fave First Night story. Gunn is one of my favourite things in this comic, and this just adds to his appeal. A heartbreaking story, and the perfect balance between the hospital bed and flashbacks. And how glad was I see finally see a big chunk of the alley battle. The panel of the 4 outnumbered team fighting the demons with the huge hulking demon in the background is possibly in my top 5 fave panels so far. Was so happy to see it. As much as I would have liked to have jumped into the alley battle in page 1 issue 1, the right decision was made to start a few months later - but we needed to see this.
So - back to the main event!
|
|
Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
|
Post by Joe on Jun 12, 2008 20:13:22 GMT -5
Ok....so I just read it... I loved the Gwen one, very much...she deserved her chance in the spotlight. Okay so the story with Gunn. So I liked everything about it.. But I'm just puzzled, so even though he's a vampire with no soul... He wants to escape from hell, and doesn't want to be a vampire??? And what's up with the guy that sired him..idk. Well I guess we'll find out soon...or at least I hope.
|
|
|
Post by sagewoman on Jun 12, 2008 22:47:38 GMT -5
As per usual, I had to read it more more than once - first time through, I read it so fast that I miss a lot - and immediately feel "way too short". Then I reread and see all the little things I missed.
Gwen's story was a good read - in the show, she tended to talk out loud, so the outer voice instead of inner voice worked just fine for me. I figure that the big barrier shorted out LISA - I wonder how long she had been going around with LISA running non-stop. I missed seeing the cars flying off the ferris wheel the first time through and the itty bitty people in the air.
The different artists provide a different feel to each story. I am so used to Franco that it made reading the stories a little more difficult.
Civilians was a unique twist on what I expected. I wonder if he was a homeless guy before the PTB gave him the end of the world message? I suspect, the crazy ramped up with the PTB messages. But, I could see in the details of the drawings how others were affected. Did anyone notice on page 5 of the story - top panel - the little billboard with the Smile Time Puppets (Horatio and another one)? Funny that he is eating Campbell's soup - did they pay for advertising? ha ha. Expensive soup for a homeless guy. Gunn - wow, this is going to be very interesting. He's all about Angel leaving him - but without any kind of understanding that events were unfolding so quickly that Angel was unable to get back to him. I guess he didn't see Angel disappear. I am intrigued that he seems to have his brain upgrade - which held more than law, remember, demon languages and a lot of other stuff.
I love Betta George and don't care if he only gets a few pages. Keep his story line going!
My only wish was that the stories were longer (more pages per issue).
EDIT: fixed the spelling mistakes
|
|
patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
|
Post by patxshand on Jun 12, 2008 23:28:11 GMT -5
Why are we assuming that this guy *really* got a message from the Powers That Be? Do we remember what his reasoning was? That he found a ladder in his alley! I think dude was likely just a bit crazy and convinced himself that he was getting inspiration from a higher up... but he wasn't.
|
|
|
Post by Brian Lynch on Jun 12, 2008 23:50:13 GMT -5
I like talk about the Homeless Guy.
I know the answer to whether or not he heard voices, but I'll let everyone come up with their own conclusions.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jun 13, 2008 1:22:30 GMT -5
I really didn't muster much investment in the civilians, as I discussed on Whedonesque. I'm almost alarmed by the idea that there might be *significance* to the question of whether he actually heard voices. I mean, more Homeless Guy, but not more Kate?
That whole story reminded me of a Twilight Zone episode starring Burgess Meredith. Not sure whether that was intentional or not.
|
|
|
Post by sagewoman on Jun 13, 2008 13:32:35 GMT -5
Why are we assuming that this guy *really* got a message from the Powers That Be? Do we remember what his reasoning was? That he found a ladder in his alley! I think dude was likely just a bit crazy and convinced himself that he was getting inspiration from a higher up... but he wasn't. The reason I think this is because no one else refers to the PTB as the PTB except the people that have been affected by them (Cordy and Angel et al). It is a very specific phrase. I would have expected a crazy guy to say that God told him or the angels - something more along those lines.
|
|
patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
|
Post by patxshand on Jun 13, 2008 14:30:00 GMT -5
Eh, I disagree. The "powers that be" isn't specific at all, and is really just a general term that people not wanting to specify "God" or put religion into it would use.
|
|
|
Post by Brian Lynch on Jun 13, 2008 15:36:51 GMT -5
Pat is right on. It's a phrase that has existed long before ANGEL.
Whether or not the Homeless Guy actually had a link, you can argue either side.
|
|