patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jan 25, 2009 11:20:55 GMT -5
I think W&H might might might have the power to bring him back. But I don't think they would, now. It would just make Angel happier, and they wouldn't want that. Last time they tried to have Wesley work for them, he was pretty much just Angel's closest friend for the entire series. He did end up delivering the bad Shanshu news, though.
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Jan 25, 2009 17:23:03 GMT -5
Wow. That was very, very good. The only thing I'm not to sure on, which could change over time, is Angel becoming famous. It would have been more of an "Angel ending" if no one really remembered who he was or thanked him and he simply walked out of the hospital with a smirk.
So, for the final issue of Angel I want to see if Gunn remembers everything he caused in After the Fall. That'd be interesting.
I am also so glad that this issue wiped away everything that happened in First Night. Although, it did make me a little angry that we spent three issues or whatever on it only to have time revert back and it NEVER happen. What a waste! We could have skipped First Night (which wasn't that good) and continued with the storyline, making AtF shorter and much more intense.
Other than that YAY.
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Post by Wyndam on Jan 25, 2009 18:20:21 GMT -5
Wow. That was very, very good. The only thing I'm not to sure on, which could change over time, is Angel becoming famous. It would have been more of an "Angel ending" if no one really remembered who he was or thanked him and he simply walked out of the hospital with a smirk. So, for the final issue of Angel I want to see if Gunn remembers everything he caused in After the Fall. That'd be interesting. I am also so glad that this issue wiped away everything that happened in First Night. Although, it did make me a little angry that we spent three issues or whatever on it only to have time revert back and it NEVER happen. What a waste! We could have skipped First Night (which wasn't that good) and continued with the storyline, making AtF shorter and much more intense. Other than that YAY. Well, First Night still happened. Angel and everyone in Hell-A were removed from their dimension, and placed in the Hell-A dimension. Once Gunn killed Angel in #16, they went back to just a few moments after L.A. was sent to hell. So it is not like the first 15 issues didn't happen, they still did. Angel and Co. were just sent back to the alley way, but they still DID everything that we saw in After the Fall.
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BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Jan 25, 2009 19:02:48 GMT -5
So everyone who had died, remembers their death? Thats some pretty trippy stuff.
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Post by birdandbear on Jan 25, 2009 19:08:43 GMT -5
Yeah, Connor said he remembered, and everyone else remembers Hell A.... there must be thousands upon thousands of people in LA now that remember dying horrible, ugly deaths. Freaky!
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Post by Wyndam on Jan 25, 2009 19:10:12 GMT -5
So everyone who had died, remembers their death? Thats some pretty trippy stuff. Yeah, Gwen, Groo, Connor, etc. all remember dying. Illyria remembers nearly destroying the city, Gunn remembers killing Connor (and being evil), etc. etc. Everyone remembers everything that happened, even the L.A. citizens. Hence why Angel is so famous now.
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Jan 25, 2009 21:48:14 GMT -5
Wow. That was very, very good. The only thing I'm not to sure on, which could change over time, is Angel becoming famous. It would have been more of an "Angel ending" if no one really remembered who he was or thanked him and he simply walked out of the hospital with a smirk. So, for the final issue of Angel I want to see if Gunn remembers everything he caused in After the Fall. That'd be interesting. I am also so glad that this issue wiped away everything that happened in First Night. Although, it did make me a little angry that we spent three issues or whatever on it only to have time revert back and it NEVER happen. What a waste! We could have skipped First Night (which wasn't that good) and continued with the storyline, making AtF shorter and much more intense. Other than that YAY. Well, First Night still happened. Angel and everyone in Hell-A were removed from their dimension, and placed in the Hell-A dimension. Once Gunn killed Angel in #16, they went back to just a few moments after L.A. was sent to hell. So it is not like the first 15 issues didn't happen, they still did. Angel and Co. were just sent back to the alley way, but they still DID everything that we saw in After the Fall. I know everything through issue 15 HAPPENED, but I just hated that we spent about a month on the (in my opinion) really bad First Night issues that didn't answer anything when we got to see the alley fight in this issue and, I think, seeing this as the first time we saw the alley fight would have been way more epic. Just me being bitter
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 26, 2009 13:52:13 GMT -5
See when it comes to Illyrias and Fred, I don't believe that her soul is gone. Its said numerous times throughout the series that souls are immortal and if they weren't, than anyones soul that is under contract with W&H can be erased and then we wouldn't have the problem with Lilah and Wesley.
I actually like this whole Angel-being-famous thing because #1 I think he deserves it a little and #2 coinciding with the Buffy storyline, things are going to change not just for her and her circle but for Angels as well, not to mention the world.
I really see a crossover coming soon.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jan 26, 2009 14:10:17 GMT -5
...but I just hated that we spent about a month on the (in my opinion) really bad First Night issues that didn't answer anything when we got to see the alley fight in this issue ... The "First Night" issues answered questions essential to understanding the story. + Why is Lorne all happy all of a sudden? How did he get from NFA to this place? + Connor needed the Kate speech to later deliver the speech to Angel, so we needed that + Why can't Gwen touch anymore? Found that out in "First Night." It would be the very reason she betrays Connor. + Why does Gunn hate Angel? Who sired him? In his "First Night" issue, we find out both of those answers and discover that Angel sort of IS to blame, which is essential to understanding the core arc of the series. + Why is Wesley working for Wolfram & Hart? So pretty much, while the "First Night" issues might seem pointless, "After the Fall" would make little to no sense without them. They presented essential information and answered an insane amount of questions.
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Malsad
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Attack Attack!
[Mo0:37]
Posts: 684
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Post by Malsad on Jan 26, 2009 14:59:34 GMT -5
indeed pat i concoure
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BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Jan 26, 2009 15:06:37 GMT -5
The only thing I didn't like was the civilians' story. The interior dude for that made me want to slap my momma! Hard.
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jan 26, 2009 16:32:03 GMT -5
I like the First Night TPB better than the First TPB (because of the art).
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Jan 26, 2009 21:02:26 GMT -5
...but I just hated that we spent about a month on the (in my opinion) really bad First Night issues that didn't answer anything when we got to see the alley fight in this issue ... The "First Night" issues answered questions essential to understanding the story. + Why is Lorne all happy all of a sudden? How did he get from NFA to this place? + Connor needed the Kate speech to later deliver the speech to Angel, so we needed that + Why can't Gwen touch anymore? Found that out in "First Night." It would be the very reason she betrays Connor. + Why does Gunn hate Angel? Who sired him? In his "First Night" issue, we find out both of those answers and discover that Angel sort of IS to blame, which is essential to understanding the core arc of the series. + Why is Wesley working for Wolfram & Hart? So pretty much, while the "First Night" issues might seem pointless, "After the Fall" would make little to no sense without them. They presented essential information and answered an insane amount of questions. I still don't understand why we needed three issues for that. Maybe I'm just bitter because finding out who sired Gunn was totally hyped and not worth the payoff, IMO.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jan 26, 2009 21:09:22 GMT -5
It wasn't hyped at all. Brian even said before the First Night books even came out that it's not about who sired Gunn, but what led up to him being turned.
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Post by Wyndam on Jan 26, 2009 21:17:30 GMT -5
Yeah the hype machine about who sired Gunn was completely fan driven. Most people assumed that Gunn would be sired by someone we know (Angel, Spike, Harmony), so they were disappointed when they were just random vamps. I understand that the reveal that Gunn was a vampire had a certain mystery attached to it, but the hype was created by the readers of the comic, not IDW or Brian.
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iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:10]
Posts: 684
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Post by iloveromy on Jan 26, 2009 22:03:39 GMT -5
Yeah the hype machine about who sired Gunn was completely fan driven. Most people assumed that Gunn would be sired by someone we know (Angel, Spike, Harmony), so they were disappointed when they were just random vamps. I understand that the reveal that Gunn was a vampire had a certain mystery attached to it, but the hype was created by the readers of the comic, not IDW or Brian. By not revealing who sired gun in the first 7 issues, I would say that part of the hype belongs to Brian and/or IDW. They purposefully made Gunn's reveal the last storyline of First Night. I'm sure it didn't hurt sales to hold off the reveal for a few issues...
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jan 26, 2009 22:16:30 GMT -5
Nope. Again, when the writer comes over to fans and very early in the series pretty much reveals that it doesn't matter who sired Gunn, then that hype is not purposeful. The hype was around what was the context of Gunn's siring, and that was Angel leaving him in favor of the dragon. Hype = paid off in #8. Again, doubly paid off in #16 when Angel gets to write his wrong.
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Jan 26, 2009 23:03:33 GMT -5
For readers that don't follow what Brian Lynch says were certainly led on to believe it was a much bigger reveal and I was one of those readers (I started reading while FIRST NIGHT was being released). The events leading up to his siring weren't even that great. I could have dealt with a conversation and some flashbacks DURING AFTER THE FALL to explain what happened. Not wait three issues and detract from the interesting storyline...
I mean, the reason they waited to reveal FDW was because (in normal story fashion) the larder reveals are hinted at and revealed slowly. If FIRST NIGHT started with Gunn being sired, I would have enjoyed it more because the pay off was, apparently, supposed to be the events leading up to it. So start with Gunn's siring, then flashback to before it and explain.
That's also why they're waiting so long to reveal Twilight. What's the point of keeping his face secret and hyping it otherwise?
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jan 27, 2009 0:11:08 GMT -5
Twilight is different. Twilight is wearing a mask, so that's obviously intended to create hype. They even teased a reveal in #11, which again, is obvious hype. I think you and I just fundamentally disagree about Gunn's "First Night" story. I think it's one of the best parts of "After the Fall" as a whole.
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Post by Brian Lynch on Jan 27, 2009 1:23:33 GMT -5
This is weird. So if we don't reveal everything up front, we're trying to build up hype for it? The reason we didn't say "this guy sired Gunn" right away was because whoever sired Gunn specifically wasn't important to the story. Gunn's feelings about the siring and about Angel WERE important, that's why we go into great detail about those right away, in issue 2.
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