Post by birdandbear on Jan 24, 2009 3:55:25 GMT -5
SPOILERS for issue #16. Please don't read if you don't want to be spoiled.....
Wesley: "Apocalyptic prophecies aren't exactly a science. And - and I could be way off the mark, so - no reason to be concerned."
Wesley: "Ah - oops. - I may have made a tiny mistake. The word Shanshu that I said meant you were going to die? Actually I think it means that you are going to live."
Cordy: "Okay, as tiny mistakes go - that's not one!"
Wesley: "Shanshu has roots in so many different languages. The most ancient source is the Proto-Bantu and they consider life and death the same thing, part of a cycle, only a thing that's not alive never dies. It's- it's saying - that you get to live until you die. - It's saying - it's saying you become human."
Cordy: "That's the prophecy?"
Wesley: "Ah, the vampire with a soul, once he fulfills his destiny, will Shanshu. Become human. - It's his reward."
-To Shanshu in LA
The vampire with a soul will play a pivotal role in the apocalypse. So sayeth the scrolls of Aberjian. But the problem with ancient prophecies in general, and the Shanshu in particular, is that they're so darn open to interpretation. Like for instance, leaving out the part about what kind of role? On which side? Who benefits from the outcome? And what happens after that?
When Wesley translated the scroll, he translated the word "shanshu" to mean life until death, or humanity. He then interpreted the scroll as saying that after Angel played his part, that humanity would be the PTB's reward for redemption well earned. Wolfram and Hart interpreted it the same way, after they'd become familiar with Angel, with his methods and his circumstances. They correctly surmised that becoming human again would be the one thing that Angel wanted most, and interpreted the prophecy to mean that humanity would be Angel's ultimate reward.
Where exactly does it say that Angel will become human, and live out a natural lifespan, and that'll be his glorious ending? Where did this concept of reward come from? Not from the scroll. The scroll says that the vampire with a soul will fulfill his destiny, and then live until he dies.
It says nothing about a reward, anywhere.
I contend that the concept of 'final reward' was a misinterpretation on both fronts. I think that Wesley misinterpreted out of love and hope for his friend. And that Wolfram and Hart simply can't imagine anyone doing anything ever without there being something in it for themselves. I think that with all their power, all their resources, their very nature betrayed them in the end. Their inability to understand Angel's motivations led them to the same mistaken conclusion, and that inadvertently, blindly, they fulfilled the prophecy.
Cordy: "Wow. Angel a human."
Angel: "That'll be nice."
Cordy: "Wait. What's that thing about him having to fulfill his destiny first?"
Wesley: "Well, it's saying that it won't happen tomorrow or the next day. He has to survive the coming darkness, the apocalyptic battles, a few plagues, and some - uh, several, - not that many - fiends that will be unleashed."
-To Shanshu in LA
Okay, so checklist. In Aplocalypse Nowish we have:
Snakes
Rats
Birds falling from the sky
Earthquakes
Rain of fire
- Plagues, check.
In Long Day's Journey the Beast murders the members of the Ra-tet, blotting out the sun.
- Coming darkness, check.
In season four, we have The Beast, and Jasmine. And we could arguably count season two's Darla and Drusilla. Heck, maybe even Holtz.
- Fiends, check.
And I think we have more than enough apocalyptic battles throughout the show to check, check, and check.
The criteria have all been met. And then? Wolfram and Hart turn Angel into a living, breathing, breakable human being. And all their efforts aside, once he figures out their game they cannot keep him alive. Angel has lived, and died a mortal man. Wolfram and Hart, like all great villians, finally tripped themselves up on their own machinations. The Shanshu prophecy has been fulfilled by their own hands.
So sayeth me.
Angel has indubitably earned his redemption, as much as such a thing can be earned. The evils we've perpetuated can never be undone, and he'll never be free of the knowledge of his. But he's saved millions of lives now. And what's more, he's been an example to them. Publicly, he's repudiated despair, and sacrificed all that he was in the name of love. In the name of hope. And there will be a few out of the millions who get it. Who will truly be touched, and seek to become better people because of what they've learned. Probably not many, certainly not all, but a few. Enough to turn the tide, enough to make Wolfram and Hart pull up stakes and leave LA entirely. To change someone, to make them a better person, to make them try to love more; I think that's the closest to redemption anyone can come.
And now? If the prophecy is fulfilled what does that leave for Angel? Well, anything. Like Spike, or Buffy, or any of the rest of us, his future is an unknown. It's his to make of what he will. He still has problems, he still has to figure it out day by day. But he's free to do that now, with no destiny except whatever he makes. He has friends, he has a son, and the future is wide open. I can't help but be reminded of the end of Buffy, where Dawn asks "Yeah Buffy, what are we gonna do now?" And Buffy smiles. And life goes on.
God I hope that makes sense to somebody. I've been at this off and on for hours, and I've had some beers, and I've gotten all verbose again and lost all sense of perspective. I set out to set forth my argument that the Shanshu has been fulfilled. I hope it makes some kind of sense. And just in case it doesn't, I offer one final piece of evidence:
Is that a dragon in the Shanshu prophecy? I think it is....
Wesley: "Apocalyptic prophecies aren't exactly a science. And - and I could be way off the mark, so - no reason to be concerned."
Wesley: "Ah - oops. - I may have made a tiny mistake. The word Shanshu that I said meant you were going to die? Actually I think it means that you are going to live."
Cordy: "Okay, as tiny mistakes go - that's not one!"
Wesley: "Shanshu has roots in so many different languages. The most ancient source is the Proto-Bantu and they consider life and death the same thing, part of a cycle, only a thing that's not alive never dies. It's- it's saying - that you get to live until you die. - It's saying - it's saying you become human."
Cordy: "That's the prophecy?"
Wesley: "Ah, the vampire with a soul, once he fulfills his destiny, will Shanshu. Become human. - It's his reward."
-To Shanshu in LA
The vampire with a soul will play a pivotal role in the apocalypse. So sayeth the scrolls of Aberjian. But the problem with ancient prophecies in general, and the Shanshu in particular, is that they're so darn open to interpretation. Like for instance, leaving out the part about what kind of role? On which side? Who benefits from the outcome? And what happens after that?
When Wesley translated the scroll, he translated the word "shanshu" to mean life until death, or humanity. He then interpreted the scroll as saying that after Angel played his part, that humanity would be the PTB's reward for redemption well earned. Wolfram and Hart interpreted it the same way, after they'd become familiar with Angel, with his methods and his circumstances. They correctly surmised that becoming human again would be the one thing that Angel wanted most, and interpreted the prophecy to mean that humanity would be Angel's ultimate reward.
Where exactly does it say that Angel will become human, and live out a natural lifespan, and that'll be his glorious ending? Where did this concept of reward come from? Not from the scroll. The scroll says that the vampire with a soul will fulfill his destiny, and then live until he dies.
It says nothing about a reward, anywhere.
I contend that the concept of 'final reward' was a misinterpretation on both fronts. I think that Wesley misinterpreted out of love and hope for his friend. And that Wolfram and Hart simply can't imagine anyone doing anything ever without there being something in it for themselves. I think that with all their power, all their resources, their very nature betrayed them in the end. Their inability to understand Angel's motivations led them to the same mistaken conclusion, and that inadvertently, blindly, they fulfilled the prophecy.
Cordy: "Wow. Angel a human."
Angel: "That'll be nice."
Cordy: "Wait. What's that thing about him having to fulfill his destiny first?"
Wesley: "Well, it's saying that it won't happen tomorrow or the next day. He has to survive the coming darkness, the apocalyptic battles, a few plagues, and some - uh, several, - not that many - fiends that will be unleashed."
-To Shanshu in LA
Okay, so checklist. In Aplocalypse Nowish we have:
Snakes
Rats
Birds falling from the sky
Earthquakes
Rain of fire
- Plagues, check.
In Long Day's Journey the Beast murders the members of the Ra-tet, blotting out the sun.
- Coming darkness, check.
In season four, we have The Beast, and Jasmine. And we could arguably count season two's Darla and Drusilla. Heck, maybe even Holtz.
- Fiends, check.
And I think we have more than enough apocalyptic battles throughout the show to check, check, and check.
The criteria have all been met. And then? Wolfram and Hart turn Angel into a living, breathing, breakable human being. And all their efforts aside, once he figures out their game they cannot keep him alive. Angel has lived, and died a mortal man. Wolfram and Hart, like all great villians, finally tripped themselves up on their own machinations. The Shanshu prophecy has been fulfilled by their own hands.
So sayeth me.
Angel has indubitably earned his redemption, as much as such a thing can be earned. The evils we've perpetuated can never be undone, and he'll never be free of the knowledge of his. But he's saved millions of lives now. And what's more, he's been an example to them. Publicly, he's repudiated despair, and sacrificed all that he was in the name of love. In the name of hope. And there will be a few out of the millions who get it. Who will truly be touched, and seek to become better people because of what they've learned. Probably not many, certainly not all, but a few. Enough to turn the tide, enough to make Wolfram and Hart pull up stakes and leave LA entirely. To change someone, to make them a better person, to make them try to love more; I think that's the closest to redemption anyone can come.
And now? If the prophecy is fulfilled what does that leave for Angel? Well, anything. Like Spike, or Buffy, or any of the rest of us, his future is an unknown. It's his to make of what he will. He still has problems, he still has to figure it out day by day. But he's free to do that now, with no destiny except whatever he makes. He has friends, he has a son, and the future is wide open. I can't help but be reminded of the end of Buffy, where Dawn asks "Yeah Buffy, what are we gonna do now?" And Buffy smiles. And life goes on.
God I hope that makes sense to somebody. I've been at this off and on for hours, and I've had some beers, and I've gotten all verbose again and lost all sense of perspective. I set out to set forth my argument that the Shanshu has been fulfilled. I hope it makes some kind of sense. And just in case it doesn't, I offer one final piece of evidence:
Is that a dragon in the Shanshu prophecy? I think it is....
