BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Mar 22, 2009 0:11:30 GMT -5
I forgot to add that I disliked Gwen's new outfit very much.
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Nina
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 141
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Post by Nina on Mar 22, 2009 4:19:47 GMT -5
Gwen's clothes didn't bother me. Angel's pants did. In the first panel he wore it, it was above his bellybutton.
That said, I liked the issue. It wasn't great but nowhere near the badness that I expected after the reviews of others. I was happy to see glimpses of the 'old' Connor back, I was afraid that he would become to fantastic and he actually had a good reason to behave the way he did. So yay for him not being sainty. Gwen was maybe a bit clingy but nothing bad. She just really wants Connor back and she goes for it. Her cool ckickbehavior wouldn't do it, besides we saw not much of Gwen in the past. In the most cases she got herself an attitude to protect herself or she was lying.
Kate stays a bit random, it would be good to see her behaving more like Kate. That said, I like her. Dez I like as well, she has by far the most interesting arc of the story and I hope that she sticks around so it won't be wasted. Angel did very little this issue, so no remarks about him.
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watcher
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 211
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Post by watcher on Mar 22, 2009 14:54:13 GMT -5
Just got around to reading it...I found myself skipping a lot of it since when was Angel chinese? Nobody looked like themselves. I'm going to have to give this one a
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Mar 22, 2009 15:37:12 GMT -5
So, is AFTERMATH a fail so far?
I'm glad I haven't picked it up yet (either issue) based on what everyone is saying.
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Post by cheungcheung on Mar 22, 2009 16:07:50 GMT -5
this issue sucked it up. big time.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Mar 22, 2009 16:51:37 GMT -5
So, is AFTERMATH a fail so far? I'm glad I haven't picked it up yet (either issue) based on what everyone is saying. I still very, very much think you should get it. The first issue was decent, and it still looks like it can improve by the next issue. Ross was already changing his Kate likeness in the last few pages of #19.
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Mar 22, 2009 22:39:19 GMT -5
I disliked this issue so much, I dont even want to give my review of it! But I will anyway! Okay, this issue was so bad. Really bad. The likeness is so off, Im not even sure what characters I am looking at anymore. The plots are strange and incoherant and Kate and Angel are just NOT doing it for me. This said to me: We are one step closer to Lynch coming back.
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richie
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:1]
Posts: 170
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Post by richie on Mar 25, 2009 9:56:26 GMT -5
oh my god... is that ******* on the corver of issue 25???
i dont know how to create that box where we can hide de spoiler so... i just ********* on it
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deathquaker
Innocent Bystander
Proud geek girl[Mo0:37]
Posts: 33
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Post by deathquaker on Mar 25, 2009 9:57:01 GMT -5
I don't mind lack of likeness as long as faces look consistent. In fact, sometimes there's a problem that when artists try too hard to manage likenesses it doesn't work---an artist will manage to copy a still shot for one panel, then try to come up with something from scratch for the next panel and have it look totally off, creating a bounce between photo-reality (which looks wrong for a comic book) and completely off model character design (which looks wrong period). So in a way, I thought the art succeeded better in some ways as it didn't have that weird "I can't draw this person unless I look at a photo" problem, but..... the problem for ME was that faces still didn't look great. Very vague features and expressions all around. I don't need comic book Angel to be an exact doppelganger of David Boreanaz, but I do need him to have the same consistent facial structure and depth of facial expression so I know who that character is at all times. I thought the inking and coloring was very good--stellar, compared to earlier AtF issues. Vibrant and detailed. Story didn't do it for me, but... I've realized I always watched Angel for a number of the supporting characters more than Angel himself. Especially for Fred and Cordy and Wesley and Spike. And they're all gone. I hate Connor; Gwen was fine for the one-shot eps she was in for the series, but she hasn't pinged well to me as an ongoing character. I do love Kate, but that's the one character whose voice the current writer hasn't found very well. And, strangely, I'm not a big fan of Angel. I realize with the title of the comic being what it is, I'm going to have to accept that Angel is going to be in the majority of the story, but the current foils for him aren't bringing out his best or providing much to entertain me personally. I should emphasize though, that apart from Kate being written off, I don't think there's a problem with the characters being present. They just happen to be the characters I don't really relate to or like personally--totally just a matter of preference. Although the fact that Joss and Co. have killed off or written out every single one of my favorite characters, I AM starting to take a little personally. (not really, but it's hard not to sometimes!) I may cancel my subscription to this and pick up the trades when they come out, if the subsequent story picks up, or if we see Spike and Illyria and Gunn again.
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Mar 25, 2009 10:39:09 GMT -5
I don't mind lack of likeness as long as faces look consistent. In fact, sometimes there's a problem that when artists try too hard to manage likenesses it doesn't work---an artist will manage to copy a still shot for one panel, then try to come up with something from scratch for the next panel and have it look totally off, creating a bounce between photo-reality (which looks wrong for a comic book) and completely off model character design (which looks wrong period). So in a way, I thought the art succeeded better in some ways as it didn't have that weird "I can't draw this person unless I look at a photo" problem, but..... the problem for ME was that faces still didn't look great. Very vague features and expressions all around. I don't need comic book Angel to be an exact doppelganger of David Boreanaz, but I do need him to have the same consistent facial structure and depth of facial expression so I know who that character is at all times. Totally agree with this. The art in Aftermath is mediocre at best, but it's better than an artist trying to replicate photorealistic images from the show. Don't know if anyone read the original Spike comics from IDW ( Old Times, etc...) but they were extremely guilty of that and the result was awful. The sad thing is, I think a lot of people actually like that kind of art. They see a panel and think "Oh, that looks like James Marsters..." and that's them happy.
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Post by faithnspike on Mar 25, 2009 13:22:46 GMT -5
Painful the story is ok but is being dragged down by the worst comic art I have ever seen. Is it angel I am looking at or Galvan Park? They seemed to even forget Gwen’s hair color for a moment. I am never one to complain about the art but for the first time I am being taken right out of a comic because of the horrendous depictions of the characters. This is especially painful after after the fall looked so good and the cover I just saw for the next Buffy wow that looks like Faith
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●B E N
Rogue Demon Hunter
♥ Goodness Gracious ♥
Crazy Echo[Mo0:4]
Posts: 454
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Post by ●B E N on Mar 25, 2009 13:29:56 GMT -5
Painful the story is ok but is being dragged down by the worst comic art I have ever seen. Is it angel I am looking at or Galvan Park? They seemed to even forget Gwen’s hair color for a moment. I am never one to complain about the art but for the first time I am being taken right out of a comic because of the horrendous depictions of the characters. This is especially painful after after the fall looked so good and the cover I just saw for the next Buffy wow that looks like Faith I guess I agree with this also.. the art is not very good... I love the Season 8 art... but the Angel art is just not as good.
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Post by wenxina on Mar 25, 2009 20:03:22 GMT -5
Oh lordy. This was absolutely agonizing to get through. I'm willing to give it a pass if the writing was any bit of memorable. But it isn't. I'm not going to get into it, since I agree with most of what has already been said about disjointed lines and all that. But what the hell is up with using the Cordelia card? Just two issues in, and we gotta drag her into this again? Can no one write without nullifying a memorable and honorable death? We don't have Joyce popping back every two issues to put Buffy back on track, so why the hell does Angel constantly need Cordy to hold his hand through this? Last I checked, he's supposed to be a champion, bit a pre-schooler.
The art. What art? My brother's chicken scratch looked better. I won't even go as far as saying that it's good for anything else. It isn't. Likenesses are important when doing a licensed comic, but not the only important factor. Likenesses are shot. No one looks like who they're supposed to be, the essence of each character is completely lost. For Angel, we get none of that anguished hero, slightly cocky personality. We get a two-dimensional caricature of a hulking mass of muscle with nothing behind it. Kate... she may as well be a new character. Connor, meh. Gwen, meh. The only character that he succeeds at marginally is Dez, and that's mainly because she is an original character, and there are no expectations there. Even so... meh. The colors... GAH! Matched with the lousy art, it's like kid pastel art. The art as a whole is wildly underwhelming!
So here's where I'm left with a burning question? Why is Mooney being wasted on drawing episode adaptations when he could have done this project instead? This is just me musing. There could be extenuating circumstances... but seriously, if this is the official ongoing story of Angel, why the hell isn't a better art team assembled for it?
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Post by Emmie on Mar 25, 2009 20:14:58 GMT -5
So here's where I'm left with a burning question? Why is Mooney being wasted on drawing episode adaptations when he could have done this project instead? This is just me musing. There could be extenuating circumstances... but seriously, if this is the official ongoing story of Angel, why the hell isn't a better art team assembled for it? Echo that! Echooooooooooooooooooooo!
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Mar 25, 2009 21:01:10 GMT -5
The answer, of course, is that this is not the official ongoing story of Angel.
I think Kelley Armstrong would be much better off doing comic adaptations of her own books with her own characters.
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Post by wenxina on Mar 25, 2009 21:29:39 GMT -5
The answer, of course, is that this is not the official ongoing story of Angel. If this isn't the official ongoing story, then what is? It may not be canon, but if we are supposed to buy that this is the continuation, why the crappy art. Why waste the license?
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Post by Emmie on Mar 25, 2009 21:38:50 GMT -5
The answer, of course, is that this is not the official ongoing story of Angel. If this isn't the official ongoing story, then what is? It may not be canon, but if we are supposed to buy that this is the continuation, why the crappy art. Why waste the license? I just don't understand how the ANGEL story could plummet so drastically in the art department. It felt like such an uphill battle for most of After the Fall with the constantly changing artistic identity and the Epic Era of Brown. Then Urru came back and Mantovani joined him and we had gold. It ended on such an unbelievably high note. The art was finally doing justice to the writing. Now we have art and writing that just don't fit. If one were better, it would help the other. But they're both awkward and ill-fitting. So we're all screwed.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Mar 25, 2009 21:59:53 GMT -5
If this isn't the official ongoing story, then what is? It may not be canon, but if we are supposed to buy that this is the continuation, why the crappy art. Why waste the license? I thought that by "official" you meant "canon." It's IDW's official continuation, yes. Dave Ross has done much, much better work than this. His stuff at Marvel and DC has been quite good. His problem here seems to be in capturing likenesses of real people. You can see how much better he draws the original characters (Dez, the Lord of Sherman Oaks, etc.) than the ones based on actors. He has talent as an artist, but it looks to me like that talent is not best expressed in licensed comics.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Mar 25, 2009 23:40:55 GMT -5
You really like hammering away at that canon nail over and over.
But the door isn't as closed on the issue as you seem to think it is. Kelley said Joss himself approved it. A lot of people seem to think that she meant his offices did, and that's a valid interpretation. Another valid interpretation is that she meant it exactly as she wrote it and that Joss literally approved this and that it is canon. Which is the interpretation that I follow, and I'm certainly not alone.
Does canon matter? To a lot of people, yeah. To me, it's not as important an issue as it was before, because Blood and Trenches is better than Aftermath and recent Season Eight, and it's blatant non-canon. I mean, look at it this way. There's not going to be anything else in the way of Angel comics. Joss is busy with Dollhouse, film, Season Eight, and so many other things. This is what we're getting. Kelley Armstrong told us that he approved it, and that it's considered canon. The story is going to be on-going and it's going to count. That's really all I need.
There are two valid interpretations of the book's canonical status, one based on the sentiment that we have insufficient information and one based on what Kelley told us about Joss's approval. The latter may not be enough for some fans, but I don't think it's right to shut the door on those that accept her word at face value.
Annnnnd that's my last word on canon unless I get tempted. Please, please, don't be tempted, Pat Shand's will.
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Post by wenxina on Mar 25, 2009 23:58:18 GMT -5
I think the point is, regardless of canon status (which is as you pointed out, quite debatable), Aftermath is turning out to be pure shite (IMO). And that's enough for me; enough to convince me that I'm not particularly interested in investing time or hard-earned cash on it. Strong words, yes, but I have very strong (adverse) feelings about the matter. In fact, seeing more of that art may cause hives and possible a seizure. While this may be all that we're getting, I'm challenging blind consumerism by demanding quality over quantity. If I'm supposed to continue to be invested in Angel (the series) as a whole, then a certain quality has to be upheld. Otherwise, I, and it seems, many others may just shut the door on the franchise.
EDIT: The fact that my reaction may be premature hasn't eluded me. But 33% into the storyline, and I'm still not giving a crap... the odds are quite against my suddenly loving the story. If there's a Dollhouse qualifier (i.e. "Wait till ep 6!"), this may be a good time for me to see/read it.
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