redhead
Common Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 74
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Post by redhead on May 9, 2009 6:38:36 GMT -5
A pretty good episode. Not my favorite but great none the less.
I thought Alpha was amazing. So scary. The bit where he slashes up Whiskey was so haunting! The many personalities was done really well. Particularly liked the line "I'm not bluffing...but I am".
Whiskey was definitely the stand out story from this episode. When she came out from the shadows when Alpha was cutting up that guy my draw literally dropped! The scene with Topher was fantastic as well. I need a second season!! Why did he program her to hate him?!!?
I also found interesting how Caroline/Echo had made a decision to make herself "Caroline" again, but then its almost as if Ballard prevents it. When he catches her imprint he sends her back to the Dollhouse and prevents her being Caroline again. The exact opposite of what he meant to do in the last episode! If we get a second season I'm thinking Ballard is going to go down a really bad path.
Also, so called the Paul letting November free! *smug face. Still don't think hes redeemed though.
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Post by PJ on May 9, 2009 9:02:36 GMT -5
It was awesome. Claire's story was great - I love that the reason Alpha slashed her was because he wanted Echo to be number one. What happened to Sierra and November though - we saw promo pics of them looking for Echo?? Must have been cut? And I so loved when Topher said they don't put souls in little glass jars with fireflies. Like when Angel's soul was in a jar!! lol. yes, i am also a fan of the little occosions with buffy/angel in the series......did anyone notice they said in one of the episodes gentlman of Lesuire (which was gile's line in season 4), and also in the last episode the lady the visited associated to Alpha's past life was named Ms. Walsh.....(professor walsh in season 4)! lol.
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●B E N
Rogue Demon Hunter
♥ Goodness Gracious ♥
Crazy Echo[Mo0:4]
Posts: 454
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Post by ●B E N on May 9, 2009 11:07:52 GMT -5
I thought it was an amazing episode. Things were covered the way I wanted them to be covered... but I with there had been more Sierra and November interactions.. i mean seriously what was the point of making them bounty hunters if they aren't going to be shown... but overall i loved the episode and this show really needs a second season.
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on May 9, 2009 11:14:28 GMT -5
Great episode, loved it. Whiskey was a great idea (Im not an alcoholic lol). Two most shocking things was when Echo hit Alpha and not Caroline, and that November got let out of the Dollhouse with her full payment before her contract was up. I wonder why it was so important for Topher to imprint Saunders with hating him. I bet Topher has history with whoever Saunders used to be and thats why she became an active. Ending was simple but thats because they couldnt do a cliffhanger as they dont know if they will get a season two. (like Buffys simple season one ending). I hate the fact that Fox wont air episode 13 as Joss said it answers alot of questions. Oh well im definitley going to buy the boxset when it is released in the UK and will watch the entire season over again when it airs on Sci Fi in the UK next week ;D
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Post by hitnrun017 on May 9, 2009 11:37:31 GMT -5
I thought it was an amazing episode. Things were covered the way I wanted them to be covered... but I with there had been more Sierra and November interactions.. i mean seriously what was the point of making them bounty hunters if they aren't going to be shown... but overall i loved the episode and this show really needs a second season. Yeah, I think gossi said over at Whedonesque that about 10 minutes was cut from the episode, and a lot of it was November and Sierra. They were also involved in the final showdown, chasing Alpha or something like that. Really, really hope it will be on the DVD.
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Post by henzINNIT on May 9, 2009 15:36:27 GMT -5
Brilliant episode and finale. Everything is changed just as Joss does best. The new twists for Topher/Saunders/Ballard were fantastic and affecting. Alpha kinda faded out to nowhere though, my only complaint. All in all, if the show dies here, I'll be very happy to add this little set to my Joss collection.
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BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on May 9, 2009 22:28:06 GMT -5
Omega was absolutely brilliant. Finding out that Dr. Saunders was a doll “Whiskey”. Seeing her dance while Alpha tortured the client was incredibly sexy. Not the torturing is sexy, unless you’re into that kind of stuff. Ballard is such a goddamn hypocrite, it annoys me so much. I was bummed that Sierra’s and November’s bounty hunter part was cut out. It was very exciting to see Echo and all her imprints and Caroline interact. If Caroline gets imprinted again, do you think she’ll remember getting shot in the neck? That would be very messed if she could. What’s up with all the Dollhouse women getting shot and acting like its nothing. First Dewitt and now Echo? I’m surprised that she went back into the Dollhouse willingly. I bet Topher programmed Dr. Saunders to hate him because he feels responsible for what happened to Whiskey. What ever happened to Echo’s new handler? I Madeline would be the one that Ballard chose to free. I wonder how she will deal in the world again with her deceased child and all. So why was Alpha so interested in Echo? I’m major confused there. Because she was “special”? I really hope that fox will renew Dollhouse for another season even though the ratings were low.
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Post by henzINNIT on May 10, 2009 5:56:43 GMT -5
I figured Saunders always hated Topher because of what he does, and Whiskey/Saunders was questioning why Topher would programme another Saunders that hated him.
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beto
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 23
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Post by beto on May 10, 2009 9:14:56 GMT -5
I loved this episode, but I was reaaaly looking forward to seeing November in action. I can't believe they cut that scene out! Well, another dvd bonus I think... specially since I don't think we'll see her again, even if the show gets nenewed.
Speaking of whitch, if this is really the end of the show, then Ballard came out of it as an hypocrit. But I really don't think he joined the Dollhouse because he now thinks "these are all good people and I can help them do good" or even the cheesy "I can stay close to Caroline! I can protect her from them". He probably thinks this is an opportunity to find out the real purpose of the Dollhouse. Anyone remember the messages?
"The Dollhouse deals in fantasy, but that is not their purpose. Find their purpose". I don't think, as paranoid and obsessive as Ballard got over Caroline, that he just forgot those messages... even if they were fake.
Unless Epitaph answers this... we need a second season.
Well, I'm just glad it didn't end with a cliffhanger. I hate shows that do that.
Also, Amy Acker be praised. She was brilliant, and the Whiskey twist was fantastic. Even though it was yet another character that turned out to be a doll, everything fell into place, and it didn't seem forced.
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Post by Rebecca on May 10, 2009 11:02:59 GMT -5
I figured Saunders always hated Topher because of what he does, and Whiskey/Saunders was questioning why Topher would programme another Saunders that hated him. I was under the impression that Claire didn't know she was a doll, but that both she and the audience realized it in this episode. I love how she was demonstrating how hurt she was when she found out she was sidelined to play doctor because she wasn't good enough to be a doll... that scene where she's telling Victor he's not good enough and if he wants pity he'll have to look elsewhere was so sad I think she's been filled with self pity and loathing since she got scarred. In the end when she gave Victor a sucker... I was totally envisioning herself in Victor's shoes. She was accepting and loving herself as much as Victor - not pitying herself or him anymore. I loved that.
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on May 10, 2009 20:29:15 GMT -5
This episode was FANTASTIC! One of the best episodes this season and one of the best episodes of all Joss Whedon episodes. Watching this episode, I wasnt really paying attention at first, I was more playing around on the computer, but you know that a show is good when you stop doing something to watch it.
Whiskey Claire turning out to be a Doll was actually very interesting and a very good reveal; I thought it was Echo dancing in the smoke. Amy Acker deserves a lot of praise for her acting skills, she really got to shine in this episode. This was one of her best next to A Hole In The World. So Whiskey was just like Echo, number one most requested Doll in the Dollhouse, but when Echo shows up, Alpha is immediately infatuated with her, so he goes over to Whiskey with child like innocence and hacks her up! That scene really made me cringe and feel SO bad for Whiskey! Im pretty interested to see why they made her into a Doctor instead of just letting her go when her contract was up. Maybe she was supposed to be let go but Adelle felt that she would be pissed when she found out what happened so they had to keep her forever. That would possibly explain why topher programmed her to hate him, as it was showing the guilt he felt he deserved for what he had to do to her. The only line I was confused about was when she tells Topher she knows who she is, yet she didnt look at her file. Any thoughts anyone?
Alpha I loved Alan as Alpha, because I envisioned someone else as him from the beginning but when it was revealed that it was him, I immediately liked the character and couldnt picture anyone else playing him. I thought the whole plot with Alpha being self aware just like Echo, and remembered all of his imprints so he flips and excapes the Dollhouse, hacking everyone up in the process. So is his whole plan to make the perfect mate for himself and run around the world hacking people up? Hmm.. I really thought that the contrast between himself and Echo was displayed perfectly: Alpha is a self aware Doll with a sinister body and all of his imprints in his head which makes him 100% evil, yet Echo has the hero Caroline, and all her hero imprints in her head which makes her 100% good. Its the perfect match.
Echo As said above, I really like how she was portrayed and her story was told. She is technically just like Alpha, but because of Caroline, she is good. She is the perfect opponent for Alpha! I was really confused at the end to see that Mellie was set free yet Echo/Caroline, whom the whole show Ballard wanted to save, is back in the Dollhouse. Im guessing her saying Caroline at the end can go a variety of ways: hopefully she isnt just remembering her original self but she is not only Echo, but she remembers that she is Caroline COMPLETELY. Her shining moment is when she says she is Echo, which is the moment when Echo actually becomes a character.
Ballard I like how his epiphany was done during this episode as he has spent MONTHS trying to bring down the Dollhouse. I guess when your inside, it really changes your views on the whole thing. I'm guessing that the whole reason he wanted November gone was because it was just too much to see her, with him there working now. Im guessing him working there has to do with him either bringing the Dollhouse down from the inside or him just being there to look out for Echo, which I think it would be interesting if he becomes her handler. But that would also take away from the Boyd/Echo relationship we have grown to love.
Overall, amazing episode. I felt bad that Topher/Adelle/Sierra/Victor got very little screentime. And I am mad that Victor looks like the Joker now, but whatever. Still hot.
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Post by faithswatcher on May 11, 2009 19:05:38 GMT -5
What more can be said that hasn't been already. Not many loose ends, but left me wanting more. One of my favourite moments was Alpha, looking up at Echo as Whiskey spoke to him. Three actors from the other three of Joss's shows all together in one shot/scene.
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on May 12, 2009 16:52:16 GMT -5
So. I read the script. They cut out a lot that would make the episode so much better. (If that's even possible). Remember how Sierra and November mysteriously disappear after being imprinted as bounty hunters? That's not what happened. In the script, Sierra and November found Echo and Alpha around the same time Paul and Boyd did. They had a shoot-out with Alpha and it seemed amazing while Paul and Boyd focused on Echo. We know these scenes were filmed because of the promo pics. WOW. We know there's gonna be "deleted scenes" in the DVD but let's hope the full version is in the episode.
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Post by Rebecca on May 12, 2009 21:39:21 GMT -5
So. I read the script. They cut out a lot that would make the episode so much better. (If that's even possible). Remember how Sierra and November mysteriously disappear after being imprinted as bounty hunters? That's not what happened. In the script, Sierra and November found Echo and Alpha around the same time Paul and Boyd did. They had a shoot-out with Alpha and it seemed amazing while Paul and Boyd focused on Echo. We know these scenes were filmed because of the promo pics. WOW. We know there's gonna be "deleted scenes" in the DVD but let's hope the full version is in the episode. I believe this was confirmed to be true earlier in this thread.
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on May 13, 2009 5:36:35 GMT -5
So. I read the script. They cut out a lot that would make the episode so much better. (If that's even possible). Remember how Sierra and November mysteriously disappear after being imprinted as bounty hunters? That's not what happened. In the script, Sierra and November found Echo and Alpha around the same time Paul and Boyd did. They had a shoot-out with Alpha and it seemed amazing while Paul and Boyd focused on Echo. We know these scenes were filmed because of the promo pics. WOW. We know there's gonna be "deleted scenes" in the DVD but let's hope the full version is in the episode. I believe this was confirmed to be true earlier in this thread. Really? I don't have time at the moment to read through the pages, but the DVD features were just released. How do they know they will include the extended cut of "Omega" when the features don't even include it?
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Post by diabeticdude202 on May 13, 2009 6:59:49 GMT -5
Wow! What an amazing episode. I am really upset about Victor, not at the writers or anything just upset that something like that has happened to him; in other words I feel for him. I think that Dr. Saunders/Whiskey was someone in Topher's life, earlier....
He programmed her to hate him because it was easier for him to forget about his life outside of the dollhouse, in the past. Other than that, I don't know why he programmed her to hate him. I was happy to see that November didn't get killed...and got a happy ending (shocked to see a happy ending in a Joss Whedon show) and I enjoyed the whole "I'm echo".
Ballard asking November what her name was is a great way to end their relationship. With her not remembering, I knew he was gonna say "I'm nobody" seeing as he is now literally a nobody...well not like the dolls but you know what I mean...
Overall, I have a few expectations for season two: I would like to see Whiskey back in action, no longer an outcast because of her scars. I'd like to see some more character development for Victor...now that he is scarred, damaged and in Saunders words "ugly" I want to see how he copes with this new so called disability and what will happen to him. I want Ballard to eventually become a Handler for Echo or Sierra. And finally ... Alpha's rampage coming to an end.
10/10 and I'm not overreacting!!
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on May 13, 2009 8:24:21 GMT -5
Guys, Dollhouse has been airing in Sweden for weeks. But not on a channel I have!
Grr Argh!
Actually, I might have it. But I have to wait until they do a re-run or until the DVDs come out since I don't want to miss episodes.
I'm actually surprised we're showing it, I assumed that Dollhouse didn't do well enough to get noticed by our channels.
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beto
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 23
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Post by beto on May 13, 2009 8:51:19 GMT -5
Overall, I have a few expectations for season two: I would like to see Whiskey back in action, no longer an outcast because of her scars. I'd like to see some more character development for Victor...now that he is scarred, damaged and in Saunders words "ugly" I want to see how he copes with this new so called disability and what will happen to him. I want Ballard to eventually become a Handler for Echo or Sierra. And finally ... Alpha's rampage coming to an end. You know what I don't get? Why didn't they fix Whiskey's face? Previously, before we realized Dr Saunders was a doll, I thought she *chose* to keep the scars (even Alpha was surprised she "kept his gift"). I mean, we're talking about a world where people are capable of imprinting personalities and memories into someone else's brain, and introduce micro cameras into someone's eyes! Are we supposed to believe plastic surgery hasn't developed as well? And that's even reinforced when we see Alpha's first victim. I'm not a surgeon but, provided you have a lot of money, isn't removing scars like that almost a "standard" procedure these days? (well, I wouldn't know... I don't have the stomach to watch Extreme Makeover or Nip/Tuck). I'm not saying I don't like how things have been handled - on the contrary, I love the drama! So, is this just a plot hole? Well, I don't want to believe that... I can understand if turning Whiskey into Saunders required the scars and the trauma to make it work (so she wouldn't leave the Dollhouse, afraid to face Alpha/exterior world). That would be sick, but I would understand (maybe this is why Topher felt guilty enough to make her "hate" him - though, personally, I believe the broken-ness of the doll allowed her to evolve beyond the imprint). But what about Victor? Can't he be wiped clean, get facial reconstruction or something and get back on the field? Are they waiting for Whiskey's contract to come to an end before they do that to her as well? Perhaps being cut like that while in the Tabula Rasa state prevents a successful wipe and further imprints would have to merge with the new "broken" Tabula. They do have "perfectly crunchy lettuce" so the Actives don't worry about anything. Sure, we have seen blank Echo go through rough stuff (like in the Grey Hour), but that was not as traumatizing as Whiskey's and we know Echo is "different". Did anyone else think about this?
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Post by Rebecca on May 13, 2009 13:09:38 GMT -5
I believe this was confirmed to be true earlier in this thread. Really? I don't have time at the moment to read through the pages, but the DVD features were just released. How do they know they will include the extended cut of "Omega" when the features don't even include it? Yeah, I think gossi said over at Whedonesque that about 10 minutes was cut from the episode, and a lot of it was November and Sierra. They were also involved in the final showdown, chasing Alpha or something like that. Really, really hope it will be on the DVD. I guess it was just mentioned, not confirmed. Deleted Scenes are available on the disks, I would imagine they would include the bounty hunter scenes, as promo pictures of those scenes were released.
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antoniofjm
Novice Witch
"I'm Not Strong Enough"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 271
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Post by antoniofjm on May 13, 2009 16:28:56 GMT -5
To beto- Hopefully now that Victor's scarred she will have it fixed so now Victor is Saunders (hopefully still in love with Sierra) and Whiskey is back.
Requests for Season 2: MORE Sierra please c'mon in the finale her last scene was her hitting on Paul!. More Victor! No Mike. And also atleast 16 episodes.
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