vampmogs
Novice Witch
[Mo0:16]
Posts: 208
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Post by vampmogs on Aug 5, 2009 21:58:47 GMT -5
Just more reasons why there's no way Twilight wants to get rid of magic. I'm not sure it necessarily has to mean that. I just think he's using magic to eliminate Buffy but will give it up once she's gone. I could be wrong but that’s the impression I got. His symbol is also on Roden's SPELL book which is interesting. Does anyone else get the feeling season eight is making a lot of comments about the mainstream media? All of this “vampires are in” stuff works so well when look at the latest trend of pro-vampire fiction (Twilight, True Blood) and all this propaganda (Harmony’s MTV show) seems like a commentary on how all this trash reality TV influences people. I basically see the Twilight symbol (with obvious connections to the swastika) as Twilight’s very own product logo? Having it placed on spell books ect gives those people the false impression that he’s on their side when really he’s manipulating them.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 5, 2009 22:02:39 GMT -5
I'm not sure it necessarily has to mean that. I just think he's using magic to eliminate Buffy but will give it up once she's gone. I could be wrong but that’s the impression I got. Well, I'm sure that's what he's telling everyone. But Supervillain Rule #1: Megalomaniacs don't give up things that make them powerful.
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Post by buffyfan21 on Aug 5, 2009 23:29:02 GMT -5
Wow, Oz has a baby. Did not see that coming (I guess this is what Jane meant by, "someone new in Oz's life." I'll say! Also, I guess I can give up hope of an Oz/Willow reunion). I found the dialogue between Oz and Willow when she confides in him really touching and found that I was able to relate to it on a somewhat personal level. It actually made me a little emotional. It's so cool that Oz has a child now and I am really glad that he has found happiness and contentment in his life (I bet he will be the coolest dad ever ). That being said, however, I now fear for Oz's life. Knowing Joss as I do, I am afraid now that Oz has a family and has found peace and tranquility in his life, Joss will inevitably kill him off. If there's one thing I've learned from Joss over the years, it's that no character is allowed to stay happy for long. The moment it seems that they have everything together, it all gets snatched away. So, for all of you who predicted that Oz will bite the bullet at the end of this arc, you may not have been wrong (but boy I hope you are)! Yep, I fear that things will not end well for Oz. He even tells Buffy that if this plan fails, he and his family become a target. Add it up and all spells doom and badness! I hope that Joss decides to have a heart though, because how cruel would it be to leave his child without a father? I know that Buffy and her crew mean no harm in seeking Oz's help, but I fear that by doing so they are only putting he and his loved one's at risk and heaping boatloads of trouble on them! In defense of the scoobies,' however, I doubt they hardly knew anything of Oz's life since departing Sunnydale. The news of a child certainly seemed to come as a shock to everyone, Willow's reaction the most painful of all. In regards to Twilight, I am only left with more unanswered questions as the identity of the man behind the mask is still shrouded in mystery (how annoying)! As far as Riley goes, I do hope that he is working as a double agent trying to protect Buffy and not sabotage her. At this point, I guess it is too early to tell, But I just can't see Riley turning on Buffy and the people who used to be his friends. Guess we will just have to see how this plays out. Can't wait for more! Things I loved:*Everyone complaining about the Butter tea was funny. * Loved Willow's yellow hat *Oz's Dingoes Ate my Baby shirt was a nice shout out to the old days.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 6, 2009 8:31:30 GMT -5
I think there's some significance to the way Twilight treats his various minions. Amy and Warren have both been guilty of huge screw-ups recently, and Warren has even disrespected Twilight to his face... yet he continues to be perfectly mild in his attitude toward them.
But Glasses Guy makes one small "mistake" (which of course wasn't really a mistake at all) and Twilight orders him executed? (And Riley smiles at having manipulated Twilight into killing one of his brighter employees).
I think Glasses Guy was killed not because of his mistake, but because he called Twilight out on his magical hypocrisy earlier.
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Post by wytchcroft on Aug 6, 2009 10:34:15 GMT -5
Well the ground's been pretty much covered here so i'll just say, yep, liked ish 27 very much of a lot. Art could have been sharper but the settings were lush and some of the face expressive shots of Will were wonderful. Interesting how Willow mentons jealousy re; having a future. Bay was nice, so probably a goner. Strange to have such a talky Oz but i didn't mind and he had a heck of a tale to tell. Twilight has gone back to talking like Wesley, but, if you put all the prior appearances together, is clearly still the guild . Lots of nice small moments but they've been mentioned already i think. Oh and 'Raki', sigh, they're real, read their views before online. Why publish the letter? Seems odd.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 6, 2009 11:02:10 GMT -5
Oh and 'Raki', sigh, they're real, read their views before online. Why publish the letter? Seems odd. What amazes me is that people like that could possibly feel comfortable in Joss fandom. It's like being a Nazi Skinhead who loves rap music and complains that there are too many blacks doing it.
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Aug 6, 2009 13:27:02 GMT -5
Oh and 'Raki', sigh, they're real, read their views before online. Why publish the letter? Seems odd. What amazes me is that people like that could possibly feel comfortable in Joss fandom. It's like being a Nazi Skinhead who loves rap music and complains that there are too many blacks doing it. that imagery made my day
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Post by buffyfan21 on Aug 6, 2009 17:30:56 GMT -5
Oh and 'Raki', sigh, they're real, read their views before online. Why publish the letter? Seems odd. What amazes me is that people like that could possibly feel comfortable in Joss fandom. It's like being a Nazi Skinhead who loves rap music and complains that there are too many blacks doing it. I wondered the same thing, wytchcroft... And love your analogy, andrewcrossett. I think that pretty much sums it up.
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Post by Emmie on Aug 6, 2009 23:12:42 GMT -5
Stormwreath has a great recap here if anyone would like to read. I've had some thoughts not so much specific to this issue, but regarding the general direction of the story: I find it really interesting how much imagery we have with the sun, the moon and the space between. It seems like the reintroduction of werewolves completes this message. And of course the continued theme of transformation and change, how this is reflected in the administration of power one possesses. Brave new dawn, resisting transformation under the full moon, tragedy coming at the time of twilight. I've reached the point where the only person I can see as Twilight that is in the here and now, present day (not some future version) is Angel. Which makes me want to reread After These Messages again. Because remember this scene which was one of the few original-feeling scenes in that issue because it was clearly referencing Season 8: Buffy: If you knew something about someone's past...future...would you tell them?
Angel: Probably not. You can't change a person's past. And just by telling them, you'll change their future into who knows what. Could it be Angel!Twilight knows something about Buffy's future, the future of the world, but instead of telling her about it, he's working to change it himself? Recall also future!Willow telling Fray that vampires are "the most important men" both her and Buffy's lives. Whether you take this statement to be just about Harth and Angel or Harth, Angel and Spike - I think everyone can agree that Angel is referenced here. Wouldn't it cut deep to have the most important man in Buffy's life betray her when he still has his soul? She's always comforted herself with the lie that the soul was the reason he stopped loving her, but we see in Spike and Drusilla that demons do love without a soul (even if not wisely or maturely or selflessly - but then who does love selflessly?) Buffy's always had blinders to Angel's dark side. She likes to separate Angelus from Angel. She's never known the dark Angel of AtS Season 2 and Season 5. I doubt she'd fully believe he was capable of these acts while still ensouled. I think it'd be interesting for her to finally see Angel clearly, without the blinders of teenage love and romantic ideals. Can she still love Angel after facing the reality of what he's capable of? And is Angel capable of being Twilight? If Angel is Twilight, I imagine his motivation has to do either with saving the world or saving Connor - two things he'd place above his loyalty to Buffy.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 7, 2009 0:25:22 GMT -5
On the last page of the comic where Oz is giving his speech, there's an inset panel where we see Faith, what looks like the top of Andrew's head, and a red-haired girl. I thought the redhead was Willow, until I noticed Willow was standing in the group with Oz.
Was this an art mistake, or is the redhead in the inset panel someone else? Could it be Vi? Or just a random Slayer?
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Post by wenxina on Aug 7, 2009 0:34:07 GMT -5
I thought the redhead was Vi... kinda looked like her.
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Post by diabeticdude202 on Aug 7, 2009 1:32:00 GMT -5
This issue was very cool. It jumps from Buffy and the gang, to Twilight and his army. From this issue I got a strong feeling that Riley is trying to protect Buffy in some way. His responses to Twilight seem as though he's hiding something. Trying to keep Twilight from Buffy. I think the art has dropped a bit in standard, just on the pages with the Twilight and his army. Overall I'd give this issue a 6/10. It loses 4 marks in my opinion becuase of the lack of progression. I know comics go slower than a season, but something has to happen at the end of each issue to make me want to get the next. Nothing in this issue makes me want to pick up the next issue, except for the fact that its written by JANE ESPENSON and OZ is in it. If it was a different writer, and Oz was not in this arc, I think s8 would be done for me. Thanks for keeping it alive Jane! XD I think its safe to say that Twilight isn't Buffy, Dawn, Giles, Xander, Oz, Willow, or Faith. lol <(-_-)>
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Post by loveisabird on Aug 7, 2009 3:28:59 GMT -5
I loved this issue. Oz's baby is so cute and was quite a surprise. Too bad Buffy and co will probably get Oz's home destroyed. Im praying we dont get Joss' usually thing with happy couples and goes and gets Bay killed. If the Baby gets killed then that will be 100% evil!!
Im definately thinking Riley is working with Twilight as a double Agent for the Slayers, and him being shown with them was just to shock us/throw us off.
One thing i didnt like about this issue was that I couldnt tell if it was Dawn/Kennedy in the butter tea scene. Jeanty sometimes draws Kennedy with a darker skin tone but then it didnt seem like it was her because she was speaking more like Dawn.
Oh, and I loved the last part with Twilight saying it wouldnt end with Buffy laying her sword down, but would end with her turning her sword on herself. I think Twilight is gonna somehow push Buffy into something she will regret doing and ultimately want to end herself. The only thing that I feel it could be would be her getting Dawn or someone close to her killed
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BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Aug 7, 2009 8:31:12 GMT -5
So um…yeah. We barely saw Xander and Dawn. False advertising! Lol. I still don’t understand why Riley is helping Twilight out. He must feel some remorse. I loved the whole “Spike” thing, it was great. Oz has a woman? And a baby? Come on! I never saw that coming. I thought he might have a fling with a little slayer. Should have known better. Again, I was really disappointed in Georges’ work. He needs to work on his Andrew, Giles, Oz…he needs to work on everyone. Anyone else missing the “gay opossum” werewolf? Well, at least Tara DID make an appearance in season 8 although it was a flashback. But you got to take what you can get. I thought the redhead was Vi... kinda looked like her. That's what I thought too.
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trunkstheslayer
Potential Slayer
Bad day. Started bad, stayed that way.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 188
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Post by trunkstheslayer on Aug 7, 2009 11:25:21 GMT -5
I'm just gonna toss this out. No idea if others have said it or not: A lot of people have been pointing to Riley's skepticism as evidence of him actually playing for Buffy's side. Decent logic, except there's a problem: Riley's skepticism turned out to be right. The "spike" wasn't the slayers at all, just like he said. Just a thought. Take it for what it is.
As far as theories, I'm wondering if Oz's baby is "the prince" and that the big thing that leaves us angry at the end of the arc involves the child being kidnapped, held at ransom, or used for something really horrible (Possibly by Buffy herself).
Also, can't express how happy I am to see people on here being generally displeased with that "Raki" letter. That thing was more than a little digusting.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 7, 2009 11:39:48 GMT -5
A lot of people have been pointing to Riley's skepticism as evidence of him actually playing for Buffy's side. Decent logic, except there's a problem: Riley's skepticism turned out to be right. The "spike" wasn't the slayers at all, just like he said. Just a thought. Take it for what it is. Actually, I think the "spike" was genuine. Willow and her Wiccans were using misdirection magic to throw Amy off. They sent an image of the Slayers drowning which Amy thought was genuine, but which Twilight didn't believe. They may also have taken steps to throw off the magic Amy was using to try and pinpoint them. Also, Riley knew enough about Amy's magic to explain it to the other guy... maybe he also knew enough to sabotage it. Riley was obviously trying to sell Twilight on the idea that the spike was just a glitch. I think either Buffy somehow managed to let him know they were going to Tibet, or he just figured it out for himself. But I think he was trying to cover for the Slayers.
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Malsad
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Attack Attack!
[Mo0:37]
Posts: 684
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Post by Malsad on Aug 7, 2009 13:11:38 GMT -5
What is it that the raki person wrote?
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Post by figureeight on Aug 7, 2009 15:21:40 GMT -5
Oh and 'Raki', sigh, they're real, read their views before online. Why publish the letter? Seems odd. What amazes me is that people like that could possibly feel comfortable in Joss fandom. It's like being a Nazi Skinhead who loves rap music and complains that there are too many blacks doing it. With all due respect, I disagree with you both and I think that you're unfairly tarring this Raki person with the brush of a close minded homophobe. I did not get that vibe from this person's letter, and in fact, I believe that he or she has a honest and genuinely valid concern/complaint. From what I read, it did not sound at all like Raki was complaining about the homosexuality or bisexuality of the characters in the series in and of itself, but was pointing out how established heterosexual characters are just, all of a sudden and for no apparent reason, turning bi- or homosexual. Not only that, but it's being presented in a purient, gratuitous way, making it seem like the creative team is just going out of its way to create some steamy girl on girl action. It's a valid concern, because it is so seemingly random and controversial simply for the sake of creating controversy. Why would Buffy, who for seven seasons was completely heterosexual and even had the total wiggins over Willow's apparent shift into bi/homosexuality, just randomly decide to give bisexuality a try? This notion that heterosexual people can just randomly become homo- or bisexual by choice is no less ridiculous than the idea that homo- or bisexual people can turn themselves straight by choice, and personally, I find it to be an incredibly damaging and callous line of thinking. Orientation isn't something that you can change on a whim; it's intuitive and inherent, regardless of where any given individual may personally fall on the scale of sexual orientation. This is especially relevant now, after the American Psychological Association has released an official condemnation of reparative conversion "therapy" for sexual orientation. You simply can't turn a gay person straight, to presume so is an insult to everyone who was born bi- or homosexual, and corrolatively, you can't just randomly turn a straight person gay, either. As such, I think that you're both overreacting to Raki's comments and that you may be letting your emotions cloud your better judgement and general reading comprehension. Further, I think that your analogy falls incredibly flat, AndrewCrossett. It would be more accurate to say that it doesn't apply to Raki at all, and that it's fairer to say that Buffy randomly turning herself bisexual is like a homosexual randomly turning him- or herself straight, or yes, even a white Nazi Skinhead randomly turning into a black rap artist. To be sure, drastically upending a deeply established and rooted aspect of Buffy's character like that for no justifiable reason makes no sense, and sends a dangerous and tremendously ill informed message about the almost entirely immutable nature of human sexual orientation. Further, to do so just to up the scandal or controversy factor, regardless of whether or not it's a cheap bid to sell more comics, is just plain tacky. ~ * ~ As for the issue, I thought it was rather interesting despite being primarily comprised of exposition. Of course, I must admit that I'm biased; Oz was always one of my favourites in the series, and I'm both happy to see him back and interested to know what he's been up to after leaving again in 4.19 "New Moon Rising". Although I did suspect, like many others here, that Bay was a potential love interest of his, finding out now that she's the mother of his child was quite the shock! Oddly enough, I just can't see Oz as a father, though I'm sure he'd make a great one. I do have some minor complaints about the art, but nothing too serious. I've gotten used to Jeanty's likenesses, in the sense that I know they're not always quite as spot on as Jo Chen's, and normally this doesn't bother me. Oz does look quite a bit like Andrew, though, and if it wasn't for the dialogue I would have had a very difficult time distinguishing him as his own character. The background art, however, was amazing, and I absolutely adore Madsen's colours in this issue. So overall, I'd say that the art was satisfactory; nothing spectacular throughout, but more than adequately serviceable. In any case, like the ending of issue #26, I must say that issue #27 makes me very eager to see what's coming next, especially regarding Twilight's presence in Tibet. September's issue can't come quickly enough.
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Post by VampSlayer on Aug 7, 2009 15:42:56 GMT -5
Here is a picture from the comic. I edited it to what Twilight should have really said. No spoilers, really, but just in case you don't want to see any of the issue.
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 7, 2009 15:46:26 GMT -5
Haha, that's pretty good.
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