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Post by butterflybangs on Aug 18, 2009 1:50:07 GMT -5
After all this time I still haven't gotten use to all of the roughly done drawings done in the book. It literally took me a second to realize that Twilight was talking to Riley. He honestly looked too much like Andrew/Oz. I wish they'd find someone else to draw the comics. This issue made me wonder if Twilight's reveal is going to be a complete joke. How strong and powerful can he be if he has to rely on crappy magic from Amy? Overall, I thought it was a dull issue. I wasn't interested in what happened to Oz after all this time. He had such a small role on the show its just hard for me to even care about him. I'd honestly rather read an entire arc devoted to Dawn.
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Darth Rosie
Ensouled Vampire
I do doodle
Keeper of Didacity [? Astray][Mo0:12]
Posts: 1,392
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Post by Darth Rosie on Aug 18, 2009 2:06:06 GMT -5
Having said that, if she is supposedly completely gay, then what was her relationship with Oz? She loved him (and still loves him), I really think they are meant to be. I was in a nearly five year relationship with a man who I truly and dearly loved when I fell in love with a woman for the first time. It felt like coming home to myself. That does not mean that my love for him was not true, but loving a woman was and is just different - and the right thing for me. That would make me completely gay, though I do distrust this notion, because struggles over amounts of gayness usually end up in fruitless fights over norms concerning what you have to do or what you must not do in order to prove you are gay enough. There's not so much sense in that; rather, it is repressive. I certainly project my own story into Willow; it seems to me that by way of her relationship with Tara she found something out about herself, a road she could take. And this is what she does with Kennedy now. Apart from that I just have to remark that it makes me crazy I always have no affordable access to the comics and always have to wait for the TPBs. But I cannot help following your debates and I love getting spoiled.
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Alexandra
Common Vampire
... and it's beginning to snow![Mo0:29]
Posts: 53
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Post by Alexandra on Aug 18, 2009 9:27:49 GMT -5
Having said that, if she is supposedly completely gay, then what was her relationship with Oz? She loved him (and still loves him), I really think they are meant to be. I was in a nearly five year relationship with a man who I truly and dearly loved when I fell in love with a woman for the first time. It felt like coming home to myself. That does not mean that my love for him was not true, but loving a woman was and is just different - and the right thing for me. That would make me completely gay, though I do distrust this notion, because struggles over amounts of gayness usually end up in fruitless fights over norms concerning what you have to do or what you must not do in order to prove you are gay enough. There's not so much sense in that; rather, it is repressive. I certainly project my own story into Willow; it seems to me that by way of her relationship with Tara she found something out about herself, a road she could take. And this is what she does with Kennedy now. Apart from that I just have to remark that it makes me crazy I always have no affordable access to the comics and always have to wait for the TPBs. But I cannot help following your debates and I love getting spoiled. This! *karma* Possible Willow/Oz romance feels as OOC to me as possible Xander/Dawn romance to some! Which I'm not against, by the way. Aye to Dander, nay to Woz. I liked their (Oz and Willow's) interaction in this issue though. Strangely enough, as I was reading I kept thinking "who's the girl with brown hair? why is she around?" and then I realized it was Dawn. I felt completely dull.
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Post by buffyfan21 on Aug 18, 2009 11:20:16 GMT -5
After all this time I still haven't gotten use to all of the roughly done drawings done in the book. It literally took me a second to realize that Twilight was talking to Riley. He honestly looked too much like Andrew/Oz. I wish they'd find someone else to draw the comics. I thought that Riley's likeness was actually pretty good, though, there were a few panels where I thought Oz looked more like Andrew. And I don't think Dawn was drawn very well at all. I am usually a fan of Jeanty's art, but I found this issue lacking in that regard. Still enjoyed the overall story, though. Thought it was great to see Oz again and loved the intros of Bay and the baby (really hope they don't die). Hopefully next issue we will see more interaction btwn Oz and the scoobies.
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Post by skippcomet on Aug 18, 2009 15:59:24 GMT -5
Having said that, if she is supposedly completely gay, then what was her relationship with Oz? She loved him (and still loves him), I really think they are meant to be. The problem with that sentiment is, *every* shipper of every ship ultimately feels that their ship was "meant to be." I know several W/X, past and present, who believe that Joss implicitly promised W/X would happen all the way back to season one, for instance, and have seen several C/X'shippers who maintain that Cordy and Xander should have been allowed to reunite instead of what ultimately happened to them. (This in spite of the fact that after Buffy Season Three, we are given no reason whatsoever to think that either Cordy or Xander made any effort at all to maintain contact with each other, let alone any sort of relationship.) And so on and so on....
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rogue11
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 197
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Post by rogue11 on Aug 20, 2009 0:04:40 GMT -5
That does not mean that my love for him was not true, but loving a woman was and is just different - and the right thing for me. That would make me completely gay, though I do distrust this notion, because struggles over amounts of gayness usually end up in fruitless fights over norms concerning what you have to do or what you must not do in order to prove you are gay enough. There's not so much sense in that; rather, it is repressive. I certainly project my own story into Willow; it seems to me that by way of her relationship with Tara she found something out about herself, a road she could take. And this is what she does with Kennedy now. I can understand what you mean by fruitless fights. Sometimes you just need to go with your gut and do what feels right. Sexual fluidity to me seems like an easier way to say that your still figuring it out, because if you like guys more and girls a little bit, that would still mean you like both to a certain extent, which could put you under the bisexual label in a way. But this whole labelling just makes things more complicated during the figuring out stages, which is what Buffy and Willow and anybody else is going through. Tara was her first girlfriend, so she's still not some vastly experience lesbian. Its a journey of self discovery. some people can label but some dont feel so comfortable. For myself, I'm pretty sure I'm gay because i dont feel any strong sexual arousal for girls and if I try to look at any girls in a sexual way, it feels so wrong. I cant even hug girls and feel comfortable doing it. I've never had a girlfriend or boyfriend, but i felt very strongly for another guy. Much stronger than any girl before. So it still feels odd saying that I'm gay because I have no experience whats so ever. Some people think you have to sleep with a guy in order to know your gay for sure, but i dunno I just have a good idea what I'm attracted to, not just sexually or physically, but also emotionally. I can be so much more excited when I'm talking to a cute boy sometimes
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Post by rebeccaplant on Aug 30, 2009 14:43:59 GMT -5
Firstly, I’d like to say I’ve stayed out of the S8 discussion because of two reasons, 1.) I wasn’t caught up and 2.) I’m still having a hard time excepting it as canon.
Now I feel it’s time for me to weigh in, add my opinion to the mix.
I know that that the merit of this season is heavily disputed among fans. From what I understand, it’s not as a result of the medium Joss has chosen for the continuation of the story, but that the issue is more about the quality of the plot, art, and the character’s development? (Or lack there of?)
Secondly, I’d like to stat my opinion overall on the season from a generalist perspective. The entire thing just seems flat. I don’t know, it’s just that it all seems too shocking and fantastic and lacking in human emotion.
So, I just finished Retreat #2, and sitting on the ferry, and feel inspired to share my thoughts on the story.
1. Plot-wise, I’m liking this arc. It’s interesting to see the gang in another situation where they are running from a power (or person, in this case) that they can’t defeat (reminds me of the end of Season 5). I do like Jane Espenson's writing, and this issue read well and kept me interested. My only real complain is the art. Looks like they were running to beat a deadline. 2. My biggest issue in general is Buffy, to be honest. What I love about her doesn’t seem to be coming through in this season. Her character seems flat. Now I know she has changed, but this much? 3. Has anyone considered the possibility that Twilight is The Master or Dracula? In the ‘verse nowadays, for a character, dying is no longer and issue that stands in the way of being re-introduced. Maybe I’m behind, and you all have already discussed and dismissed this idea. And he claims he “knows Buffy too well.” This intrigues me. Who could claim that in all honesty? Dracula did enthrall and bite her, and after all, The Master did kill her. I’d say she has a significant connection with both vampires. 4. I like where Oz is now in the story. I was sort of put taken aback with the whole baby thing, but I think it works now that I think about it. He’s obviously moved on and created his life to his liking. I admire that. He’s tamed the beast inside, subdued his inner demons, and come to peace with himself. I’m only sad to see that Willow is disturbed, and I don’t blame her. I imagine it was a shock. And does he know about Tara’s death?
And what is up with this whole Spike thing? Is this supposed to be a weak foreshadowing of my favorite blonde vampire’s return? Because if it is, it’s a weak one for Joss. A bit obvious, isn’t it? And in response to some who think Twilight is Spike: Bringing him back as a villian would be such a cop out, and insulting to his character considering how much development he was undergone.
And I’m going to have to agree with others and admit that the whole past cameos thing is getting to be a bit much. Can’t someone stay dead in the Buffyverse? Yet, thanks to the letter section in the end, I’m glad to hear that the team does not have plans to bring back Joyce, Tara, or Anya. That would just be too much for me.
All and all, I feel like this season could be so much better. We could be experiencing some awesome character development but instead we’re given cliffhanger after cliffhanger, obnoxious cameos from characters I think we’d all wish would have stayed dead, and fantastic, ridiculous, and almost cartoonish situations intended to shock the audience. I’m enjoying the medium for Buffy, and I thank God the story goes on, but I feel like the real essence of Buffy is getting lost in the writers intent to create something to appeal to the mass comic-reading population. I guess this is enviable, to sell-out, considering the declining sales of comics in general – but the show has a massive and devoted fan base. The comics do not need to shock us. As long as they continue to tell the story of Buffy and her friends, slayers, and enemies with the humor and heart we are accustomed too, people will keep reading.
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Post by PJ on Aug 30, 2009 18:02:18 GMT -5
i just read it today (i know very very late) and you know what bothered me (well 2 things) 1. Oz left in season 4, so did he know dawn??? 2. Why wasn't Kennedy around at all when everyone was having a chat?
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BlueJay
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Resident Charmed Fan[Mo0:12]
Posts: 631
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Post by BlueJay on Aug 30, 2009 19:35:18 GMT -5
i just read it today (i know very very late) and you know what bothered me (well 2 things) 1. Oz left in season 4, so did he know dawn??? 2. Why wasn't Kennedy around at all when everyone was having a chat? 1. Dawn and Oz know each other because Oz's memories were altered too when the monks made Dawn 2. They wanted to focus on less characters this issue so secondary characters like Andrew and Kennedy were out doing other stuff while the main group sat on the porch with Oz. Also, I like to think that Kennedy didn't want to be around her girlfriend's ex too much, to prevent adding more tension.
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Skeptic
Initiative Soldier
[Mo0:24]
Posts: 344
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Post by Skeptic on Sept 4, 2009 19:42:27 GMT -5
I just finished reading the issue and really enjoyed having Oz back. Oz with a family, and the babeh is a little bitty werewolf, too. The poor little thing changed when it got scared, but it was soo cute.
Giles being funny again was aces. I've missed this man's very dry humor and situational observations.
Why was Buffy's hair orange in some panels, and blonde in others? Was the sun setting or something? It kind of threw me off.
All the talk of Spike. It's like it was raining anvils... is he supposed to come up in an issue soon, I guess?
And it took me reading this thread to find out that the guy that I've never seen before who was working with Twilight was actually supposed to be Riley. I'll have to go back and re-read the ish now with that in mind, because all I could think was "That looks like Andrew... but Andrew's with the girls. But it looks like Andrew... is he a double-agent? Is this a big reveal?"
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Post by Rebecca on Sept 11, 2009 22:46:50 GMT -5
Just an FYI, we saw Riley with Twilight in TOYL, Issue #19, I believe.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Sept 16, 2009 9:52:35 GMT -5
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Post by wenxina on Sept 16, 2009 10:02:34 GMT -5
Anti-Dander boycott? Wait... they couldn't have known for sure back then... hmmm... suspicion of Dander-ness?
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Sept 16, 2009 10:52:32 GMT -5
For reference, here's how the issues have sold month-by-month since the start:
March 2007 (#1) - 109,919 (#9) April 2007 (#2) - 96,409 (#12) May 2007 (#3) - 106,634 (#12) June 2007 (#4) - 102,430 (#10) July 2007 (#5) - 100,830 (#12) August 2007 - (no issue) September 2007 (#6) - 96,556 (#8) October 2007 (#7) - 94,144 (#7) November 2007 (#8) - 91,595 (#10) December 2007 (#9) - 89,556 (#12) January 2008 (#10) - 88,474 (#14) February 2008 (#11) - 88,070 (#14) March 2008 (#12) - 88,930 (#6) April 2008 (#13) - 83,580 (#11) May 2008 (#14) - 82,069 (#15) June 2008 (#15) - 80,464 (#12) July 2008 (#16) - 82,031 (#10) August 2008 (#17) - 79,307 (#13) September 2008 (#18) - 77,589 (#11) October 2008 - (no issue) November 2008 (#19) - 74,202 (#8) December 2008 (#20) - 71,896 (#17) January 2009 (#21) - 69,980 (#10) February 2009 (#22) - 67,575 (#12) March 2009 (#23) - 64,108 (#10) April 2009 (#24) - 60,916 (#22) May 2009 (#25) - 58,740 (#14) June 2009 (TOTV) - 45,568 (#37) July 2009 (#26) - 55,393 (#31) August 2009 (#27) - 53,403 (#37)
Season 8 has lost about half its readership since the start. This may very well be normal for comics series. But it's not a happy trend.
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Darth Rosie
Ensouled Vampire
I do doodle
Keeper of Didacity [? Astray][Mo0:12]
Posts: 1,392
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Post by Darth Rosie on Sept 17, 2009 0:54:54 GMT -5
This is depressing. I have started to buy single issues now, but I guess this will not suffice for a real boost in sales ...
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
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Post by Mathieu on Nov 23, 2009 16:26:01 GMT -5
I just read the issue. I don't know what to think.
- I didn't like the art. It was awful. It took me hours, I mean minutes, to understand that Dawn was in there. Then I looked at the cover again and I figured it had to be her. I thought it was Kennedy or some other girl.
- The storytelling was kind of awkward, with all the flashbacks, but not terrible.
- I like that we saw Riley and Twilight together.
- Some of the lines were kind of cheezy, especially all the Oz/Willow dialogs.
- I like the "prophecy" at the end.
- Oh and Oz being a dad, okey dokey. That's weird.
I'm sorry I'm so late to comment the issue. It's just that I just received the last four in the mail. I'm going to go back through your posts to check what you said.
Feel free to comment my post if you agree/disagree with what I said!
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