narflet
Potential Slayer
grr. arg.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 198
|
Post by narflet on Jul 14, 2009 17:37:15 GMT -5
I was really surprised it was not one of Jo Chen's. I think that Jo should have finished all five covers and THEN take a break. Have someone else paint the covers for the next arc, but whatever. My feelings exactly. I'm not really that keen on the cover at all...Hmm. Will be interesting to see Jeanty's.
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Jul 14, 2009 19:07:14 GMT -5
"people are about to die" - This makes me think of Anya calling all the Potentials cannon-fodder. All the Slayers are cannon fodder for this epic fight. Is this the way Twilight stops the Slayer line? Isn't this kinda what the First wanted all along? Because now all the Potentials are Slayers and if you kill all the Slayers, then does the power dissipate without any Potentials (of the right age or whatever circumstances) to become a Slayer? The world is still full of Potentials, though, and they're still being called all the time. I don't know if a new Slayer is called whenever one dies, in addition to the ones being called when they become "ready." I think Twilight knows he can't end the Slayer line by killing Slayers. His ultimate endgame involves something else... undoing the Scythe spell would be most likely. I wonder who will die at the end of this arc. Somebody will, to underscore the costliness of the battle and the direness of Buffy's situation at the height of Act II. I'm not sure we'll see any longstanding main characters die this soon in the season, but some major second-tier players might go. Satsu, perhaps.
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Jul 14, 2009 20:32:23 GMT -5
"people are about to die" - This makes me think of Anya calling all the Potentials cannon-fodder. All the Slayers are cannon fodder for this epic fight. Is this the way Twilight stops the Slayer line? Isn't this kinda what the First wanted all along? Because now all the Potentials are Slayers and if you kill all the Slayers, then does the power dissipate without any Potentials (of the right age or whatever circumstances) to become a Slayer? The world is still full of Potentials, though, and they're still being called all the time. I don't know if a new Slayer is called whenever one dies, in addition to the ones being called when they become "ready." The problem is this is still very unclear. And it's actually making me wonder - if all 1800 slayers die or most of them do, you'd think that there wouldn't be enough Potentials around to restore the population immediately in the next generation. Of course, the question goes to how girls become Potentials - are they descendants of Sineya the First Slayer? The mythology isn't fleshed out enough. But I'm just drawing a parallel back to the First's plan that if you kill all the Potentials and then kill the Slayer - no more Slayer line. So in theory having all the Potentials already be Slayers means there are fewer Potentials out there biologically (if that's how it's done) passing along their Potential to the next generation. So if every Slayer isn't passing along their Potential because they're already activated and using up that power as it were, then where do the new Potentials come from (e.g. Soledad was called post-Chosen)? Power isn't unlimited. I've wondered since last year if Buffy having all the Potentials in the world activated to be Slayers all at once doesn't perhaps tap out the power that allows the Slayer line to exist for millennia. It's like spending all your money in one day versus saving if for a lifetime and doling it out responsibly. Overkill of the potential power of the Slayer line. Tanking your trust fund before you even turn 25. All the power of the Slayer line maxed out in one generation, burning bright and short-lived, versus the careful expenditure of The Chosen One for each generation so that the line will last unto the end of time. Power is finite - so is the power of the Slayer line infinite or finite? The First's plan about how Buffy returning to become the Slayer weakened the Slayer line seems to imply that this power is not unlimited. And the fact that the plan to kill all the Potentials even seemed like a viable plan seems to imply that the power can be cut off. But again, the First's plan wasn't very well-developed in mythology.
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Jul 14, 2009 20:37:32 GMT -5
I don't think that calling the Slayer line finite goes very well with the whole empowerment thing. The point of "Chosen" was that sharing something doesn't dilute it, but rather makes it stronger. Kinda like education... that's my real-world example from now on. And tangent: Did Buffy's return to life cause the instability in the Slayer line, or did ripping up a heavenly dimension and dragging her soul out via primordial dark magick do it? I'd go with the latter, since Buffy's first return to life didn't cause the instability the First apparently needed.
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Jul 14, 2009 20:55:00 GMT -5
It doesn't fit well with the Slayer Power = feminism equation. But you yourself have said the Slayer isn't the message of feminism, it's Buffy herself and sharing the power. Are we too also extend the metaphor to say the Slayer Power being shrouded in darkness means that feminism is a dark power too?
I'm coming at this from a supernatural perspective and even a real world one. Power isn't infinite in the Buffyverse - everything has a cost. As Willow says, you don't get something for free. The Shadow Men created a Social Security check of power for the Slayer line and if this generation is overspending on the power doling out, what will be left?
It's really a question of how Whedon reconciles the supernatural balance of give and take with his feminist message.
But in a supernatural sense, I don't see any reason for the Slayer Line to be source of infinite power. Even the "gods" of the world had some limits on their power and rules to abide by to bring it forth on Earth. What's more, it's a power that was created and originally harnessed by men (presumably with some supernatural visiony guidance). The feminist message comes from shaking off the shackles of the patriarchy and regaining control of one's own destiny - that really doesn't necessitate that the power be limitless and given to all. If it were, then shouldn't all women be allowed to be Slayers? Shouldn't all women be worthy of power?
There are fantasy story limits on this and the power being limited imo fits into the 'verse's definition of magic and the source of the Slayer line. The line wasn't set up for 1800 girls to be activated at once - what if it's 1800 girls now versus 1800 girls per generation for the next thousand years?
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Jul 14, 2009 20:56:59 GMT -5
Power isn't unlimited. I've wondered since last year if Buffy having all the Potentials in the world activated to be Slayers all at once doesn't perhaps tap out the power that allows the Slayer line to exist for millennia. It's like spending all your money in one day versus saving if for a lifetime and doling it out responsibly. For a long while, I assumed that the "one Slayer at a time" rule was there because there was a finite amount of power. I thought that when Willow cast the Scythe spell and activated all the Potentials, she used up all the Slayer power that was meant to sustain the next several hundred years of Slayers. That would explain why no Slayers were called until Fray... because it took that long for the power to recover. I was surprised to find out in Harmonic Divergence that there are still Potentials out there, and they're being called regularly. That made me wonder why the Shadow Men hadn't just created an army of Slayers right from the start. It would have been interesting to see the urgency that would have resulted if Willow had in fact burned through all the Slayer power. Buffy would have been faced with having to completely eliminate demons and vampires within her lifetime, because after the current crop of Slayers there wouldn't be any more.
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Jul 14, 2009 21:17:28 GMT -5
It also works in explaining why Buffy would banish all demons and magic from this dimension. Her last hail mary against demonkind with the realization that this generation of Slayers, when they die out, will be the last for a few hundred years. She has to take drastic measures to protect humanity in the face of a few centuries of demons roaming free without a Slayer to beat back each apocalypse. And tangent: Did Buffy's return to life cause the instability in the Slayer line, or did ripping up a heavenly dimension and dragging her soul out via primordial dark magick do it? I'd go with the latter, since Buffy's first return to life didn't cause the instability the First apparently needed. As far as what we've got from Showtime: BELJOXA'S EYE It cannot be fought, it cannot be killed. The First Evil has been and always will be. Since before the universe was born, long after there is nothing else, it will go on.
GILES I refuse to believe that. There must be some way to destroy it.
BELJOXA'S EYE What, am I talking to myself here? There's no way.
ANYA OK, we tried. Let's go, Giles. (starts to walk away)
GILES Are you saying that The First will succeed in—in wiping out the line of slayers?
BELJOXA'S EYE The eye sees not the future, only the truth of the now and before.
ANYA Yes, we've all got that—it's called memory. Can you help us out with something a little bit more demony?
GILES If The First has been around for all time, then why hasn't it attempted something like this before? Why now?
BELJOXA'S EYE The opportunity has only recently presented itself.
GILES Opportunity?
BELJOXA'S EYE The mystical forces surrounding the chosen line have become irrevocably altered, become unstable, vulnerable.
ANYA Something The First did?
BELJOXA'S EYE The First Evil did not cause the disruption, only seized upon it to extinguish the lives of the chosen forever.
GILES Then what has caused the disruption? What—what is responsible for letting this happen?
BELJOXA'S EYE The slayer.
GILES Are you all right?
ANYA (limping) Yeah, I just—I don't understand how Buffy's death mucked up the whole slayer mojo. You know, it's not like she hasn't died before.
GILES It's not because she died. The Beljoxa's Eye was quite clear about that in its enigmatic way. It's because she lives. Again. Buffy's not responsible for that.
ANYA Oh. Oh. Willow and me and Xander and Tara. We're the ones who brought Buffy back. We're—we're the reason The First is here, the reason those girls were murdered. No, it's our fault. The would would've been better off if Buffy had just stayed dead. (walks off) It's interesting but I wonder if perhaps Buffy's mystical resurrection irrevocably altering the Slayer Line and making it unstable and vulnerable also made it possible for Willow to rechannel the Slayer Power in order to activate all the Potentials into Slayers. But who's to say that the Slayer Line is now stable? If anything, it seems to be as unstable and vulnerable as during Season 7. The fact that Buffy's resurrection could weaken the line suggests to me that the power is delicately balanced and finite. Look at what the vamps tried to do in Wolves at the Gate? Do we think no Big Bad has ever wanted to depower a Slayer before? But perhaps this wasn't possible until now when the Slayer line is unstable and vulnerable, going this way or that depending on whoever has captured the power flag. Before this, the power was protected by ancient powers and couldn't be altered - or at least that's the impression given by saying it was stable and nigh invulnerable. The modern day Watchers had no control over where the Power went, the Power decided it somehow mystically. Now there's a spell to individually depower Slayers if Buffy ever wanted to, for instance, depower Simone for going rogue. This is very different from back when being Chosen wasn't something you could run away from (though Buffy certainly tried). Now the power can be "cured" and taken away from you. Before in Helpless, this wasn't true - drugs could only mask the power and the only way to get a new Slayer was to kill the current one and free the power.
|
|
|
Post by Rebecca on Jul 14, 2009 21:41:31 GMT -5
It also works in explaining why Buffy would banish all demons and magic from this dimension. Her last hail mary against demonkind with the realization that this generation of Slayers, when they die out, will be the last for a few hundred years. She has to take drastic measures to protect humanity in the face of a few centuries of demons roaming free without a Slayer to beat back each apocalypse. More than anything I see this happening. At first when Twilight was introduced, I thought his ultimate goal was to balance magicks. I think moreso now that he wants to balance the agents of good and evil by taking down the Slayer army. Remember the chess symbolism he made in the end of NFFY? I think this is how he sees the world: two opposing forces, balanced. Right now it isn't balanced, and he's rectifying that. With the heavy messages we're getting with abuse of magic, with Buffy questioning now whether she did the right thing (exactly what Twilight wanted) and now she either repressing or extracting the magic within herself and in her slayer army, why wouldn't she be the one to banish demonic magic from this dimension as she realizes this may be the last of the slayers for generations? With her army de-magicked, but still 'empowered', that might just be a winning strategy--and would also cause a collision between Buffy and Willow... something that makes Willow live on with regret.
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Jul 15, 2009 7:19:28 GMT -5
Em: If nothing else, the quotes in bold illustrate how contradictory the information given in S7 is. By the same source, we're led to believe that Buffy's being resurrected recently caused the disruption in the Slayer line, but Giles' statement in bold then makes that fuzzy by saying that it's the very fact that she's now alive... why the second resurrection vs. the first one? The only difference between both deaths and resurrections is that the first set was entirely natural, and the second, entirely supernatural.
The only way for the Slayer line to actually be compromised is if what happened was the second resurrection actually restored Buffy into the Slayer continuity again (I think this was a pet theory of yours), and this could partially explain why Buffy constantly reminds the Potentials in S7 that her death could call one of them. Or one of the original drafts of the "Chosen" speech, where she declares that both her and Faith have to die in order for a new Slayer to be called. But to be perfectly honest, I see that as just fanwanking to the point of the practice of a 13-year old boy. The entire issue about the First was ill-conceived, and even more shoddily executed. Doesn't really matter in terms of delivering the final message, and so hey, I'll give it a slip.
EDIT: Back to the subject of #29 a bit, I contacted Georges about his missing cover, and he divulged some interesting tidbits:
Hmmm....
|
|
|
Post by henzINNIT on Jul 15, 2009 7:51:31 GMT -5
Cover's lame. I prefer the artist who covered last time. Hopefully Jeanty's cover is good this time.
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 15, 2009 8:05:21 GMT -5
I was surprised to find out in Harmonic Divergence that there are still Potentials out there, and they're being called regularly. That made me wonder why the Shadow Men hadn't just created an army of Slayers right from the start. Maybe the only needed one. Maybe they thought they could only control one. Maybe they only had enough power to make one.
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Jul 15, 2009 8:28:36 GMT -5
I was surprised to find out in Harmonic Divergence that there are still Potentials out there, and they're being called regularly. That made me wonder why the Shadow Men hadn't just created an army of Slayers right from the start. Maybe the only needed one. Maybe they thought they could only control one. Maybe they only had enough power to make one. The original Shadow Men who created the First Slayer might not have been interested in the world beyond their local area. Back in those days they might not have even known that there were more than a few thousand people in the entire world. In those days of tribalism it's probable the shamans weren't interested in protecting anyone but their own people, and one Slayer was probably enough to accomplish that.
|
|
cutiepatootie
Common Vampire
lay waste to the world, and everything in it[Mo0:0]
Posts: 87
|
Post by cutiepatootie on Jul 15, 2009 16:57:12 GMT -5
If Twilight touches my Satsu.... Heads will roll.
|
|
stakey
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
2nd in command to Mr pointy
"Don't be a hero Scherbatsky." [Mo0:31]
Posts: 676
|
Post by stakey on Jul 15, 2009 17:27:17 GMT -5
hmmmm...
I like the fact we have a cover focusing on Twilight...but Im not loving his weird gaping mouth with the fabric kinda sucking in...looks odd.
Dont want to read the paragraph below in fear fo spoilers however...so I only have an opinion on the cover. ;D
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Jul 15, 2009 18:29:43 GMT -5
If Twilight touches my Satsu.... Heads will roll. Satsu karma!
|
|
richie
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:1]
Posts: 170
|
Post by richie on Jul 15, 2009 19:10:02 GMT -5
i felt a little weird about the this cover... the mouth sucking mask is really awful... i liked the ideia.... but for me it could orkut, as a panel in the comic, not the cover about the the frist issue, i think that it could only appear and put his plans active since the frist death of buffy dindt use magic.... with willow using dark magic to bring back the slayer back, affected the way the chosen way... cause it wanst natural. the slayer magic have the characteristcs of bieng something natural... so, when willow brought buffy back, she change the odds. like a cheat. thats why the 1 could act. and i think twi plan its to reorder the balance. tip the scales... i think whats twi trying to do its end with magic. and for that to work he need the slayer.
|
|
richie
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:1]
Posts: 170
|
Post by richie on Jul 15, 2009 19:51:59 GMT -5
If Twilight touches my Oz.... Heads will roll.
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Jul 15, 2009 20:09:57 GMT -5
Please don't double post (unless your last post on the topic is 24-hours old or older). Use the "Edit Post" function and edit your posts. The same can also be done should you notice any glaring errors in any of your posts. Thank you.
|
|
Skeptic
Initiative Soldier
[Mo0:24]
Posts: 344
|
Post by Skeptic on Jul 15, 2009 21:23:37 GMT -5
Wow, what an interesting cover. I almost feel like it's part old-style supervillain sketch, part stained glass, part chiseled out of stone. And no, at first I didn't like it: the colors didn't actually seem to really match; styles were mixed; the colors and lines were either too soft or way too strong. But now I think I really like it. I had to look it up, but I think that is actually a take on the flag of Tibet: Emmie and Andrew, your thoughts on there possibly being a finite amount of power are intriguing, and I tend to agree with everything you've said so far. I also tend to think that all women didn't end up with the power, because not all women are potentials. I think the mystery of how potentials and slayers actually come into being will always remain a mystery, though. I think we're getting enough small, albeit vague, pieces of the mystery to start trying to piece a bigger picture together, though. I think by the time Season 8 is said and done, we will know more about the Slayers and their existence than we've ever known before. I've long suspected that #30 might be a turning point, since it's a good, round number and occurs right after a tumultous arc. I saw Scott Allie's comment about #30 in the Q&A and feel like we're really switching gears right now, because after this arc, the terrain and landscape changes and the effects and repercussions of the final arcs of the season will resonate and change the whole story - Buffy's, Fray's, the potentials, the slayers, the future - forever. I seriously think this is it - I seriously feel like Joss is slowly turning the boat to face into the sunset. Whatever's coming, though, I'm ready and excited. Unless Satsu gets killed. Then I'm cranky.
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Jul 15, 2009 21:36:01 GMT -5
I had to look it up, but I think that is actually a take on the flag of Tibet: Hey, that's interesting. I kept wondering why the Japanese rising sun motif kept showing up in a story set in Tibet... but the Tibetan flag has a similar pattern. I think this comic is gonna be banned in China. Unless Satsu gets killed. Then I'm cranky. I'm trying to use psychic powers to haunt Joss's dreams and dissuade him from doing any such thing.
|
|