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Post by lightandmagic on Sept 3, 2009 23:33:41 GMT -5
I voted for River... Sorry, guys.
As badass as Buffy has been, nothing beats River's massive smackdown in the bar, or the slaughter of the Reavers. Other than maybe Beatrix Kiddo vs. The Crazy 88s and Gogo. Now River vs. Beatrix Kiddo. That would be an awesome fight.
Buffy's most badass moment in my opinion is either the bazooka, or her rising up and telling the First to get out of her face.
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Post by caitaintdead on Sept 3, 2009 23:46:20 GMT -5
Other than maybe Beatrix Kiddo vs. The Crazy 88s and Gogo. Now River vs. Beatrix Kiddo. That would be an awesome fight. That would be an incredible fight. Want. To. See. Now.
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Post by VampSlayer on Sept 4, 2009 0:04:10 GMT -5
I actually think River would beat Buffy in a fight. River is a psychic, plus a ultimate weapon. Buffy is strong, and can fight pretty good, but I don't think it's enough to take down River.
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Post by Wyndam on Sept 4, 2009 0:06:13 GMT -5
River is human though. All Buffy would need is one nice punch and River would be down for the count.
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Mayor Of F♥ckville
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Post by Mayor Of F♥ckville on Sept 4, 2009 0:09:27 GMT -5
I actually think River would beat Buffy in a fight. River is a psychic, plus a ultimate weapon. Buffy is strong, and can fight pretty good, but I don't think it's enough to take down River. Hmm Buffy not being able to take down an ultimate weapon? -cough- GLORY -cough- God > Ultimate Weapon I think one of her badass moments was "I'm Buffy.. the vampire slayer, and you are?" in Anne...
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Post by Emmie on Sept 4, 2009 0:28:49 GMT -5
River's an ultimate weapon in the sense that she's a graceful trained fighter who's psychic.
What does this mean? It means that she can anticipate Buffy's moves and that she can hit Buffy. Hit Buffy...and not really hurt her because Buffy's the Slayer.
Now hand River a gun and she's in business. But then, Warren took Buffy down with a gun. Is Warren badass? That would be a big, fat no.
In a fight of hand-to-hand, which to me is the definition of badassery, even if River landed 100 hits, Buffy would only need to land one punch and River would be done. Badass also includes the idea of being able to take hits and keep on standing no matter what - think Bruce Willis in Die Hard when he's killing the terrorists and running barefoot over broken glass - he's in pain, but he keeps on going. With River, she's all about avoiding the pain in order to kill. With Buffy, she takes those hits, shakes 'em off like they're nothing and then PWNs you. Buffy fights through the pain = BADASS. River avoids the pain in order to fight = meh.
Another definition of Badass: attitude. Buffy snarks and mocks her enemies. River more mindlessly fights when the switch is flipped in her head. Which makes River more of a tool. Tool = not badass. She does finally reacquire her own agency at the end of Serenity, but it's one scene to me compared to years of proven badassery on Buffy's part.
Think on this too - If Buffy had a $40 mil you can bet that she'd have a wickedly badass scene that would go above and beyond what was shown on television. River only comes to the badass table when in a feature film, so it's amplified a lot. Imagine how badass Buffy would be in a Buffy movie.
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Post by VampSlayer on Sept 4, 2009 0:37:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I understand all of your points, but I still stick with River. I think both of the girls are awesome, so I can never really be sure who would win in a fight. But Buffy is more badass, sure.
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Post by Emmie on Sept 4, 2009 1:13:59 GMT -5
LMAO I'm thoroughly convinced by your argument of "just cause" for River and then intrigued by your backpedaling that "Buffy is more badass, sure". The jumpy, waffling style of persuasion is an interesting way to go. ;D
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Post by lightandmagic on Sept 4, 2009 11:54:22 GMT -5
It's not really fair to say Buffy is more badass because she would beat River in a fight. They are both part of completely different verses, so it's unfair to compare them in a fight as there are different rules and all that stuff in each universe.
Point is: River's spinning axes of death is the epitome of badass, so she wins.
*is still wanting a River vs. Beatrix Kiddo fight*
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Post by Emmie on Sept 4, 2009 13:07:21 GMT -5
It's not really fair to say Buffy is more badass because she would beat River in a fight. They are both part of completely different verses, so it's unfair to compare them in a fight as there are different rules and all that stuff in each universe. Ah, but I didn't solely say that Buffy beating River was why she was more badass, though, did I? I said Buffy wins also because of her attitude, the fact that she's her own agent, and that she fights in spite of getting punched in the face or stabbed in the gut while River dances around blows because she can't handle them. As for Beatrix vs. River. I'd go for Beatrix. Again, because the woman has taken the worst kind of pain handed to her and she gets up and kicks ass. Can River even take a punch? I'm trying to remember if the girl has ever been struck and still managed to win.
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Post by lightandmagic on Sept 4, 2009 15:38:44 GMT -5
It's kind of hard to discount River for not being able to take a punch when she never really gets hit in the first place so it's sort of a non-issue. =/ I mean she can see it coming before it comes, so I highly doubt she'd be hit.
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Post by buffyfan21 on Sept 4, 2009 16:00:19 GMT -5
On the Buffy badass moments - just remembered a fave fight scene. I love it in "Into the Woods" when Buffy has burned down the vampire crack den and then the group of 10 vamps try to ambush her in the alley and she takes them all down in 30 seconds because she's pissed off with Riley. Then the crack-whore vamp runs away and Buffy stakes her with a javelin. Awesome. I love this fight scene. Definitely a badass moment for our Buffy.
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Post by dragonweaver on Sept 4, 2009 20:37:37 GMT -5
Can River even take a punch? I'm trying to remember if the girl has ever been struck and still managed to win. Actually yes. It wasn't really a beat down or multiple hits, but she was hit (at least once, maybe twice) during the bar fight in the movie and still managed to keep on trucking. That said I still have to agree with Emmie. In my opinion Buffy has proven herself on multiple occasions (through fighting and attitude) to be one badass mother. For those that don't agree that's cool. As far as I know there isn't a clear cut definition of the word bad-ass and therefore the meaning & application of the word is up for debate.
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gumgnome
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Post by gumgnome on Sept 5, 2009 4:37:54 GMT -5
For those that don't agree that's cool. As far as I know there isn't a clear cut definition of the word bad-ass and therefore the meaning & application of the word is up for debate. Karma!
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Post by Emmie on Sept 5, 2009 5:57:29 GMT -5
Of course, dragonweaver! Everyone has the right to their own opinion. Plus if everyone agreed, it wouldn't be nearly as interesting, no? I'm still waiting for someone to really break out a detailed argument here. Does no one ever do superhero vs. superhero battles? Come on! Debate-y discourse and dissenting discussion focusing on narrative points - is that only fun for me apparently?
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Post by sagewoman on Sept 5, 2009 21:20:26 GMT -5
I think that they are showing the wrong picture of Buffy for this.
I think Buffy would win. I love River as well - but all we have seen her beat are humans - Reavers, yes, but still a bunch of humans. Buffy beats the unhuman who have greater strength. The Reavers are chaotic, so they don't seem to even think past attack and kill.
I also do not think that River won the Reaver fight because of her psychic abilities, I think her reactions and ability to see and anticipate are her mental strengths in the fight and the obvious traininig they put her through to be a killing machine. There are no aliens or para-normal beings in the firefly 'verse so no extra-para powers as well.
I think Buffy would be able to match River, blow for blow and if it is a draw - then Buffy would outlast River and win by shear (sp?) Slayer strength and fortitude.
And, yes the Browncoats are a powerful force. They will come together and stand firmly behind River.
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Randi Giles
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Post by Randi Giles on Sept 26, 2009 12:38:34 GMT -5
I just watched the episode Spiral last night and I have to say it was pretty bad@$$ of Buffy when she threw that axe at the guys chest and he went flying off the Winnebago. That's right folks she can even kick @$$ on a Winnebago. Lol. Plus as a lot of us have mention one of my favorite moments of her is in the episode Anne.
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