NORMAL AGAIN; is all we see and seem but a dream?

[Saturn 5]

NORMAL AGAIN
The Good;
Some great acting from SMG, lovely to see Kristine/Joyce again. Also I really like the idea of Tara to the rescue, so lovely that she get's to play the hero for once.
The Bad;
Nothing bad, just a depressing ep
Best line;
Spike; "You didn't say it was a Glarg gul cashmanik demon!"
Xander; "Because I can't pronounce Glarg gul..."
Women good/men bad;
Jeez!;
Not the ep if you don't like needles, including Willow snapping the demons stinger off
Kinky dinky;
Xander queries what exactly Buffy means when she says 'Poked'.
Captain Subtext;
Will sees Tara smooching with another girl but it might be just platonic. Spike uses the term poof of Xander. Also see Missing Scenes. Buffy says that once you fall for Willow you stay fallen.
Guantanamo Bay;
Rather ruthless that Xander just wants to go down to the basement and execute the demon
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
(reputedly)
BUFFY: I could wrestle naked in oil for a living and still be cleaner than after a shift at the Doublemeat.
WILLOW: Plus I'd come to visit you every single day.
Apocalypses; 6
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage: Xander, Willow and Dawn all tied up
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 2
Dawn; 4

Scoobies knocked out: Xander and Tara
Buffy: 17
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 12
Will: 8
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;3
Dawn; 2
Tara; 1
Kills: 1 demon for Buffy
Buffy: 104 vamps, 55 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human, 1 god.
Cordy: 3 vamps, ½ a demon
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn.
Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon,
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 8 vamps and 4 demons
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp

Scoobies go evil: the Buffster herself
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 2
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1

Alternate scoobies: insane Buffy
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 3
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1

Recurring characters killed: 11
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina

Sunnydale deaths;
93

Total number of scoobies: no more Anya, we must assume she's out of the gang for the time being
Xander, Willow, Buffy, Spike,

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Cordy: 1?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 1 possible, Dracula(?)
Angel: 1;Buffy
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vampwhore
Spike; 1 Buffy
Spike; good or bad?
Spike helps save Buffy. He abuses Xander but for once he's justified, Xander seems to go out of his way to vent his anger by picking a fight with Spike who for once has a viable comeback to use against him.
Dawn in peril; 9 yes but in fairness the same as everyone else. She seems pretty resourceful both against evil-Buffy and the demon in the basement.
Dawn the bashful virgin; 7
What the fanficcers thought;
Obviously a lot of fic in this regard but I have 3 favourites. In one Buffy wakes up as an old woman in the asylum and promptly chucks herself out the window. The paramedics wonder why this dead old lady has such a smile on her face whilst back in the Buffyverse Dawn wakes Buffy up to join her friends for breakfast. Number 2 also has the same premise but in this one old Buffy turns her delusion into a series of bestselling novels/TV series and uses the money to start an orphanage called Sunnydale, naming all the kids after the Scoobies and her parents. Best of all though has Buffy awakening from her delusion just after the end of Chosen, still only 23 in the real world. She returns to her normal life with her old friends from Hemery High (who are all still alive as the deaths in the movie/Lie to Me never happened) but convinces a pregnant Joyce to call her new daughter Dawn.
Also plenty of fic focusing on a world where Buffy isn't the Slayer. Taboo Comics have a pornographic web-comic series where Buffy fantasises about a world where she isn't the Slayer. She and Willow end up slaves in a demon brothel but eventually get bored with it, poison their masters and go into business for themselves part-time whilst enjoying their normal lives into the bargain.
Questions and observations;
Actually for once it's Dawn who strokes Buffy's hair (and Joyce does the same thing to asylum Buffy). Buffy acknowledges for the first time that Dawn is taller. No Anya at all for the first time in 2 seasons. If you want to know how Buffy fared during her time in the asylum you can find it in the original Buffy comics (the fifty or so published whilst the show was still on air rather than the current post-Chosen/season 8 series). Although perhaps more fun is the story of Dawn and Hoopy Bear that occured whilst Buffy was away.
There are probably about a thousand reasons why the premise of Normal Again (that Sunnydale is the delusion of Buffy who's a mad girl in an asylum) can't be true but here are just a few that occur to me off the top of my head;
1. How does stuff happen in the Buffyverse that Buffy never knows about? Giles' questions about her killing Angel, Xander's 'Kick his ass' comment in Becoming pt2, all of Angel;TS but especially 'I will remember you'? And notice we only ever see the asylum from Buffy's point of view, she's in every scene.
2. How can Hank, Joyce and Ford exist in both Buffy's delusion and the 'real world'?
3. Why is Buffy's delusion in Sunnydale not happier than real life? Surely her delusion is supposed to be an escape?
4. The asylum can't be Buffy's ideal if it doesn't have Dawn in it
5. How can Buffy be aware of current events (Tom and Nicole, Gatorade's new flavour, Star Trek; Enterprise) if she's a mad girl in the asylum?
6. If Buffy had a momentary awakening when she was dead why doesn't she remember it? The asylum is far from heaven.
7. What about when Buffy runs away from her calling after the end of season 2? She's a normal girl in the real world and also in her delusion?
8. How can Buffy be in a fugue state in Weight of the World within her delusion? And how exactly can she be inside Faith's dreams in 'This Year's Girl'?
On the other hand...?
The final scene on Buffy has Sunnydale destroyed, the Hellmouth sealed forever, literally and figuratively defeating her demons and HERSELF in the shape of the First Evil, the Slayer's work done. Faith tells Buffy that from now on she's going to have to live as a normal person. Dawn wonders what Buffy is going to do now? Buffy smiles her enigmactic little smile...and wakes up in the asylum, her sanity restored. She resumes her normal life, all her friends who died in the film still alive as indeed is Joyce who is still together with Hank. She becomes a successful author of supernatural stories based on her delusion which are turned into movies and a TV series. And calls her children (and Joyce and Hanks beloved grandchildren) Dawn, Willow, Rupert, Faith and Alexander.
Third explanation of course, both are true, asylum Buffy and Sunnydale Buffy are both real and have some sort of subconscious link. Post-Chosen asylum Buffy regains her sanity and enjoys her normal life once more but the season 8 comics are her dreams which are the reality for Sunnydale Buffy.
Marks out of 10; 6/10 clever but not much fun

[gumgnome]

Again, I balk at the low score - this is one of the very best, and just because it isn't fun (what, are none of the episodes allowed to explore darker themes, 'cos if so, I think you've got the wrong show) doesn't stop it from being freaking amazing to sit through. For new writers, they really nailed a great idea.

The only part of this episode that really annoys me is the scene where Buffy explains to Willow that she spent two weeks in an institution when she first became the Slayer. This does not fit with the events of the first two seasons at all! There are numerous occasions when Buffy directly mentions being a Slayer to Joyce ("Witch" and "Bad Eggs" come to mind) and Joyce is merely puzzled by this. If I were Joyce and had felt the need to send my only daughter to a psychiatric clinic for two weeks because she was talking about killing vampires and being a superhero, I think I'd react differently to what would be, in her mind, relapses on Buffy's part. Instead of shrugging them off as strange, I'd probably become rather scared and concerned for my daughter's health again. The scene really doesn't add anything to the episode. With the events of Season 6, Buffy really doesn't need more reinforcement to the asylum theory; the idea that she thinks it might me real because she wants it to be real is much more frightening and effective than the idea that she thinks it might be real because she's been in an institution before. When I watched the commentary, I was horrified to hear the writers slapping each other on the backs for adding to the rich back-story of the show with this scene. You morons! That only works when the back-story you add fits in with what already exists! And this doesn't! Aaaarrrgghhhhh!!!!!!!!!

Phew. Rant over.

[henzINNIT]

Dec 8, 2009 6:15:14 GMT -5 gumgnome said:

Again, I balk at the low score - this is one of the very best, and just because it isn't fun (what, are none of the episodes allowed to explore darker themes, 'cos if so, I think you've got the wrong show) doesn't stop it from being freaking amazing to sit through. For new writers, they really nailed a great idea.

The only part of this episode that really annoys me is the scene where Buffy explains to Willow that she spent two weeks in an institution when she first became the Slayer. This does not fit with the events of the first two seasons at all! There are numerous occasions when Buffy directly mentions being a Slayer to Joyce ("Witch" and "Bad Eggs" come to mind) and Joyce is merely puzzled by this. If I were Joyce and had felt the need to send my only daughter to a psychiatric clinic for two weeks because she was talking about killing vampires and being a superhero, I think I'd react differently to what would be, in her mind, relapses on Buffy's part. Instead of shrugging them off as strange, I'd probably become rather scared and concerned for my daughter's health again. The scene really doesn't add anything to the episode. With the events of Season 6, Buffy really doesn't need more reinforcement to the asylum theory; the idea that she thinks it might me real because she wants it to be real is much more frightening and effective than the idea that she thinks it might be real because she's been in an institution before. When I watched the commentary, I was horrified to hear the writers slapping each other on the backs for adding to the rich back-story of the show with this scene. You morons! That only works when the back-story you add fits in with what already exists! And this doesn't! Aaaarrrgghhhhh!!!!!!!!!

Phew. Rant over.

I believe in the asylum being a manifestation of the demon's hallucinations. Works better that way.

[gumgnome]

Dec 8, 2009 6:40:46 GMT -5 henzINNIT said:

I believe in the asylum being a manifestation of the demon's hallucinations. Works better that way.

That's a nice way of thinking about it - but it's clearly not what the writers intended, which makes me mad. gumgnome smash!

[Randi Giles]

I watched this episode last night and I've come to realize that it's definitely one of the most underrated episode in the Buffyverse. I also think that it deserved more than a 6 as well. Damn Joss Whedon for making this episode. I love it and hate it at the same time. I also wonder about some of your questions and observations saturn/joxerlives. It really can go either way, which is why I hate it. Then again I can't help but love the fact that it was Alternative-Joyce that made Buffy realize how strong she was and that she could beat what she was going through.

[midwesternwatcher]

I'll have to read this thread in more detail before I give a thoughtful reply ... but for now

I'm in the "love it" camp. The inconsistencies with S1 and S2 don't bother me at all. Basically, I think it reflects, if overstates, what "most people", including teachers, classmates, workmates and so forth, would think of Buffy, and what most of you would think of her if you ever met her in the flesh.

I know it's a shock if you want to get carried away by the fantasy. I found I was able to re-suspend my disbelief with little trouble. Were you?

Nobody has mentioned Diego Gutierrez, who wrote this episode. I believe it was the first script he ever wrote for television, and the only Buffy episode he wrote. Curiously enough, he was Joss Whedon's assistant at the time, which ought to suggest something.

His later credits are extensive. Here's a link:

www.imdb.com/name/nm0305684/#Writer

[joxerlives]

Oct 31, 2010 15:13:16 GMT -5 Randi Giles said:

I watched this episode last night and I've come to realize that it's definitely one of the most underrated episode in the Buffyverse. I also think that it deserved more than a 6 as well. Damn Joss Whedon for making this episode. I love it and hate it at the same time. I also wonder about some of your questions and observations saturn/joxerlives. It really can go either way, which is why I hate it. Then again I can't help but love the fact that it was Alternative-Joyce that made Buffy realize how strong she was and that she could beat what she was going through.

No reason to hate it, if the Buffyverse is real then the asylum is just a delusion. If the asylum is real then Sunnydale is just a delusion which ends with Chosen and Buffy is sane again after 7 years and enjoying the life she led prior to meeting Merrick in LA. If they're BOTH real then both girls are happy and enjoy their seperate existances, meeting only in their dreams

[midwesternwatcher]

What way makes for the best story?

I have a take that's different from any of you.