Angel's next Wesley?

[Wyndam]

In terms of the close friendships in the Buffyverse (Buffy/Willow, Buffy/Xander, Willow/Xander, Angel/Cordy and Angel/Wesley), Angel and Wesley always had the most subdued, and yet I wouldn’t classify them as anything less than best friends. Ironically, their friendship was at its best after Season 4. Part of that was because Wesley’s memories were altered, but even after he regained them, their friendship never really took another hit. Angel confided in Wesley the most, where he’d usually put on a brave face when all of Team Angel were together.

“Soul Purpose” comes to mind where Angel assured everyone he was fine, but it wasn’t until he was alone with Wesley that he let down his guard and claimed he might be sick. Even though this was just a dream, it’s still telling of their relationship. I've always compared them to Han and Luke from Star Wars who are very much the best of friends (especially in the Extended Universe), but won't ever say that they are "best friends."

Then there was the very much dead Wesley in After the Fall that was with Angel from beginning to end. Helped keep Angel alive, shield the fact he was human, and kept Wolfram and Hart at bay, all the while not being able to touch anything.

But anyway, I’ve been wondering for a while: Now that Wesley is dead and gone, who will, in a sense, become Angel’s next Wesley?

There are a few possibilities:

Connor: The most obvious choice, as he and Angel have the closest bond right now. A lot of this would depend on Connor though, as I don’t know if he’s ready to give advice that his dad could use. Willingham has even said that Connor is going to have to learn that Angel tends to get things right, and follow his lead every now and again. Angel can and certainly will confide in Connor, but I feel that this could be a one way street type thing, especially when comparing it to what Angel and Wesley had. Connor is still young and isn’t done making mistakes, but I am sure that the current arc will be good for Connor, so this is a wait and see type thing.

Gunn: Not counting Kate or Spike, as they haven’t been permanent figures in Angel’s post-soul life, Gunn is Angel’s “oldest” friend currently. They haven’t always been close, and their friendship has always been more about “respect” than confiding in one another. With the events of After the Fall though, they share some things in common. Gunn feels responsible about everything that he did as a soulless vampire, not unlike you know who. Gunn even killed Angel’s son; (temporary) removed Connor from Angel’s life. That’s not exactly unlike what happened with Wesley, where Connor was believed dead after getting sent to Quor’toth. The subdued nature of Wesley and Angel’s friendship would also work well with these two.

Kate: This is probably the one I’d like to see develop a lot. There is just a lot of potential here. I wouldn’t even mind if something romantic developed eventually, but I also think that Kate could fulfill this role perfectly. I could see Kate becoming Angel’s right hand (wo)man, his first lieutenant, whatever. They have a rocky history, but it ended on good terms and has resurfaced because of that original friendship. It will be interesting to see how Willingham balances all of the characters, but how he develops Kate is something I am most interested in.

While I don’t think anyone left in Angel’s life will fill that friendship role that Cordy and especially Wesley once did, it is definitely interesting wondering how this new team will develop together.

[hitnrun017]

Definitely agree about Kate. Both characters work so well together. Their scenes in Seasons 1 and 2 were some of the best, didn't matter if Kate liked or hated him. Angel did a lot for her, and it'd be nice to see what Kate could do for him. Hope we'll see some of this in the future, some old school detecting.

Brilliant Wesley/Gunn parrallels, btw. I'd love to see that issue brought up and explored.

[Hallow Thorn]

I don't really want anyone too. I want Cordy and Wesley to have that kind of bond and unique friendship with Angel that will take Angel many many years to find anything thing that comes close to that again. (like it took him to find Buffy/Cordy/Wes...)

If anything I want him to find that with his son and also James would I would like to have kind of a Dean/Castiel think going on. I think Gunn and Angel friendship has run its course (I would love for Gunn to become a Vamp for real this time, something for them to bond over? lol) I think Kate and Dez are really bland and lack any really development for me to have any interest on them (as much as I did like Kate on the show).

So it would be Connor and James for me.

[Hellbound Hyperion]

I've always found the Angel/Gunn relationship to be more of a mentor/mentee (uh, someone who is mentored... I dunno the word for that - apprentice?). It always seemed like Gunn was trying to do the right thing whenever he acted, but he was never really sure what the right thing was, exactly, which is where Angel comes in. See: end of "That Old Gang of Mine" and the "it should wake you up in the middle of the night, and it will... because you're a good man" scene from "Underneath". Angel's had quite a few years of experience in trying to do the right thing (and variously succeeding/failing on different levels), so he knows how Gunn feels moreso than most.

Angel/Connor will probably always have that arbitrary distance that exists between father/son - at least IMO. I definitely think they'll grow closer, but it won't be like best-bros close.

Angel/Kate is the best bet of the ones you posted. It's long overdue anyway, considering she just sorta disappeared after "Epiphany". I was hoping she'd play a bigger role in After the Fall, but no dice there.

I'd argue to Hell-A and back for Angel/Spike, but Spike's got his own deal going on now and I'm OK with that. Angel/Illyria would be a stretch and require one helluva story arc, but it could work - she still needs to settle into a place in this world, post-ZOMG-FRED'S-MEMORIES. She's another character that could benefit from working closely with Angel as a "moral apprentice", though she may trust Fred's memories/essence more in the end.

As for James or Dez... we'll see.

[Wyndam]

Dec 20, 2009 0:31:00 GMT -5 Hellbound Hyperion said:

I've always found the Angel/Gunn relationship to be more of a mentor/mentee (uh, someone who is mentored... I dunno the word for that - apprentice?). It always seemed like Gunn was trying to do the right thing whenever he acted, but he was never really sure what the right thing was, exactly, which is where Angel comes in. See: end of "That Old Gang of Mine" and the "it should wake you up in the middle of the night, and it will... because you're a good man" scene from "Underneath". Angel's had quite a few years of experience in trying to do the right thing (and variously succeeding/failing on different levels), so he knows how Gunn feels moreso than most.

Angel/Connor will probably always have that arbitrary distance that exists between father/son - at least IMO. I definitely think they'll grow closer, but it won't be like best-bros close.

Definitely agree with you here, on both counts. I think that both of the reasons for Gunn and Connor that you gave might ultimately prevent them from reaching that level. Connor maybe when he is much older, but with what Gunn went through in AtF, I don't see him ever not being able to learn something from Angel. I do think they could get to that place in their friendship though, but it could be a while.

I did want to include Spike, but since Spike will be getting his own limelight soon, and won't be around Angel enough to establish a much closer bond, I didn't think it was wise to include him. I love their relationship though, especially how much it has grown since After the Fall started.

[Hellbound Hyperion]

I did want to include Spike, but since Spike will be getting his own limelight soon, and won't be around Angel enough to establish a much closer bond, I didn't think it was wise to include him. I love their relationship though, especially how much it has grown since After the Fall started.

Absolutely. It moved away from that whole love-hate vibe they had just by being related to each other (in the vampire sense of being related via siring) and got more into them trying to figure out what the heck to do now that they're both mega-famous and, more importantly, Spike is now free of the obligations that previously tied him down (Buffy, earning the rights to his soul, the chip, at least two apocalyptic battles, etc etc). The two of them are just better characters all-around when they're working together.

[Wyndam]

Hehe it would be interesting to see what would happen to Angel and Spike if the "brothers in arms" aspect of their relationship was removed (perhaps when magic is banished, if that brought upon some world peace). My guess would be that they'd kill each other within a week. ;D

That would make for an interesting story somewhere down the line. Send Angel and Spike to a dimension where there are no demons or evils to fight, and see how long they can stand each other.

[Hellbound Hyperion]

That would make for an interesting story somewhere down the line. Send Angel and Spike to a dimension where there are no demons or evils to fight, and see how long they can stand each other.

Do you one better - I'll incorporate that into my Christmas fic for SlayAlive Scribes Challenge. Realistically, they'll probably drive each other crazy for 100 years, then sit and drink and shoot the breeze for another 100. Then they'll try to escape, only to have Illyria yank them out as they're about to execute the escape plan.

[Wyndam]

Dec 20, 2009 1:55:28 GMT -5 Hellbound Hyperion said:

That would make for an interesting story somewhere down the line. Send Angel and Spike to a dimension where there are no demons or evils to fight, and see how long they can stand each other.

Do you one better - I'll incorporate that into my Christmas fic for SlayAlive Scribes Challenge. Realistically, they'll probably drive each other crazy for 100 years, then sit and drink and shoot the breeze for another 100. Then they'll try to escape, only to have Illyria yank them out as they're about to execute the escape plan.

Lmao, I definitely could see it playing out that way. ;D

[patxshand]

I actually think it might be James. Yup. Crazy. But I do.

[Hallow Thorn]

Dec 20, 2009 3:32:40 GMT -5 patxshand said:

I actually think it might be James. Yup. Crazy. But I do.

I for one hope so.

[Wyndam]

Yeah it will be interesting to see what Willingham does with James. He's only been in a few issues (and written by a poor writer), so Willingham could really take him into any direction he wants.

[neowhobaz]

I really think the Gunn one has merit. But Like Hellbound said it would be more Angel mentoring Gunn back to a better state than on the same level. I really wouldn't mind seeing some Angel/Kate action lol. They had the level of comradery in the show where you thought they could be together. With time passed and a better understanding between the two of them I think it would be feesable.

[henzINNIT]

I echo the statements about Gunn. He and Angel were never really chatty, they're actually too similar to get on too well I think. There's respect, but there wouldn't be any sharing. I think Angel being Connor's father nullifies that kind of relationship too. He would never let his guard down for fear that he wouldn't be the rock at all times.

ATF ended in a way that led me to think Angel had found a greater faith than ever. I'm not saying he's going to get on his knees and pray to Cordelia exactly, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him talking to her still, be it grave visits or whatever.

[neowhobaz]

I think the whole grave visit thing was sort of quashed by her random Aftermath appearance. We'll just have to wait for another random appearance lol jk.

[VampSlayer]

It's hard to say...

Connor is his son, and they are for sure going to be close, and backing each other up.

Gunn and Angel have been fighting on the same side for a very long time, so odds are he may trust Gunn, even after The Fall.

And for Kate... I love Kate. I really wanted Angel/Kate to happen when I first started to watch the series... Now, Im not so sure. It would be great to see Angel and Kate get closer, because they're history together is great. Maybe they'll get together one day! I'd love to see Kate doing a lot, since she was gone for much of AtS.

[Paul]

Angel/Connor and Angel/Kate are the relationships I'm currently most interested in, which is weird considering I never liked either character in the show. I think Kate and Connor slot quite nicely into the roles that Cordelia and Wesley used to occupy. Kate is the motivated assistant, getting Angel organised and pro-active in his detective agency, and Connor is the right hand man, whose love and loyatly to Angel is understated but obvious.

They're not exact replacements though, and shouldn't be. Kate is an older, more damaged character than Cordy ever was and her relationship with Angel needs a lot of subtle development. It was very poorly handled in Aftermath; they had chemistry but there was no attention paid to their troubled history.

I think the father/son thing with Angel and Connor is less of a roadblock than some people think. I see them as similar to Bree and Andrew in Desperate Housewives; they've survived the traumatic teen years, with the hate and resentment, and now have more of an equal, respectful relationship. Connor's an adult now, not a stroppy teen, and I'd like to see him and Angel portrayed as best friends (as with Bree and Andrew). We saw glimpses of that in Aftermath, which was nice. I think there will always be slight awkwardness between them but Connor will be laid-back and mature enough to handle it.

I've never been that interested in Gunn, but I think the Angel/James relationship has a lot of potential. I'd like Angel/Spike to be given a rest for a while; that relationship has recieved a lot of (brilliant) attention lately and it's time to focus on someone else.

I wonder who could fill Lorne's "agony aunt" role to Angel? That was a very important relationship. I'd rather Lorne continue to appear but George might be a fitting replacement, given his psychic insight and snarky humour.

[neowhobaz]

After issue #32 I think Laura Kay weathermill is jockying for this spot.Granted She won't be the new wesley for the deep emotional connection and friendship he provided but possibly the more obvious things about Wesley like: ex watcher, Knowledge of the supernatural both by herself and her demonic library, and at this point a desire to fight evil from her actions at innovation labs. I could definetly see Willingham trying to make this his contribution to the verse character wise.

[Hellbound Hyperion]

Yeah, as soon as I saw this thread back up I was like "we're talking about the new Watcher lady now". Eh... she does seem rather knowledgeable. But I remain suspicious. She's gotta prove herself the way Wesley did. >

[neowhobaz]

Apr 29, 2010 18:39:01 GMT -5 Hellbound Hyperion said:

Yeah, as soon as I saw this thread back up I was like "we're talking about the new Watcher lady now". Eh... she does seem rather knowledgeable. But I remain suspicious. She's gotta prove herself the way Wesley did. >

Definetly, hence my reservations in giving her the whole Emotional cred. She might end up being brains for hire the way i see it.

Her Floating library was such a convenient plot point it was funny which I'm sure wasn't the intention.