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Post by KingofCretins on Dec 23, 2008 20:18:06 GMT -5
Bah. I don't believe it. Scott, clearly this is just to throw us off the scent of your scheme to abuse the position as editor to corrupt the story against certain characters and relationships. Scott Allie = Just kidding. Thanks for making a statement about it, though, I like there to be a sense of shared purpose between the creative and administrative minds of the Buffyverse even though they are operating in different publishing houses at the moment.
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Post by KingofCretins on Nov 26, 2008 21:01:51 GMT -5
Scott -- I'd ask you to break us off any kind of 'shippy spoilage at all, but you'd say something about Warren and Amy's little spat.
So, how about this -- now that Riley is revealed as being villain-ish, can you confirm whether or not most of our theories for why Riley might be Twilight are right? Namely, does his turn have *something* to do with his wife?
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Post by KingofCretins on Oct 30, 2008 13:58:43 GMT -5
The reference is to a "major character from the TV series", so you can forget the Alpha Team, Vi, or Kennedy. The spoiler about Xander from Jeanty was that he'd be "hooking up" with someone in the future, he didn't say who or for how long.
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Post by KingofCretins on Oct 30, 2008 13:50:25 GMT -5
Modified thread title to permit spoiler discussion/speculation on this thread.
My guess is that it's Willow. Like, Willow.
If you look at the plans for upcoming episodes, Willow is unaccounted for in any of the upcoming arc of standalones. What's more, we have been told that the one shots deal with reaction to the major event -- we've taken it as given that this means the upcoming major change in 8.21. But wouldn't it also be a non-descript way to to describe the death of a major character?
It's Buffy's books. Kennedy is already on cover art, and plus "major" would sound like a stretch. Giles and Faith haven't been in the arc at all, so it would be really awkward. Xander and Dawn are in the (relatively) lighter "B" plot.
I *hope* it's FDW, but I'm not taking that as a given just because it is obvious and safe, and this is Joss. I'm going to say Willow or FDW is the likeliest by far, with reason to worry about Xander and Dawn. But, since we've had a few spoilers about Xander from Jeanty, and we know that they have an issue in the arc of one-shots planned, I tend to think they are safe.
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Post by KingofCretins on Oct 27, 2008 1:31:45 GMT -5
Pat is right -- as was Brian. Having Connor just articulate the idea behind the "Epiphany" speech is much more realistic and much better than having it go verbatim from Angel to Kate to Connor to Angel. Kate got it more or less verbatim, so that's plenty.
Angel understood anyway. As the son becomes the father, the father becomes the son?
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Post by KingofCretins on Oct 23, 2008 21:41:24 GMT -5
Buffy and Xander "Buff, don't open that raincoat" "... okay, open it"
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Post by KingofCretins on Oct 22, 2008 14:58:06 GMT -5
Well, that was a very cool issue in most respects. The very good stuff to me is pretty much all Connor driven. Not only him beating Gunn's ass silly, but also how he is so invested in "Cordelia" the dragon, and still protective of Gwen -- he genuinely loves her. It's also how he is in the write place and time to bring it back to Angel. Everything Angel told Kate, and Kate told Connor, Connor now basically tells Angel. I suppose one could have seen that coming, but it is still excellently done. And it ties "After the Fall" into a mythological and philosophical theme that ran through the whole televised series. Excellently pulled off. And I really liked Angel's dealings with Cordelia... although I'd have liked for her to steal another kiss (or for him too). Angel's reasoning was completely valid, and indeed, it feels like his emotions overriding him, love for Connor, not reason, not renewed belief (although Connor's talk helped) that makes him fight. Now, though, we come to my major, fundamental unhappiness. It's been building for a while based on interviews, but it's still going to have felt screwy. Spike shows up (complete with bevy of inexplicably affectionate Slayers?) and Connor needs Angel back on his feet, and we all know this can only go one of two ways. 1. Spike will have to sire Angel. This creates an astounding amount of continuity and mythological problems to solve. Either we'll A) completely ignore the vampire mythology and Angel will spring back to his feet normal and ensouled with his curse and all, B) he'll spring back to his feet completely ensouled sans curse, like Spike, C) he'll spring back to his feet like Lawson, with a sort of penumbral soul and a much harder personal dilemma, or D) he'll spring back to his feet and, after a Darla-like moment of anguish, be Angelus again. I'll say right now, A or B will absolutely destroy this series for me. Both are in complete contradiction to the established vampire mythology of the Buffyverse, and "it's Hell-A" isn't explanation enough, IMO. D creates some storytelling possibilities, but in a crowded story, I'm not sure about a new Angelus arc, especially when the point would be to get him into the fight quickly. Of those four, C is the only one that really takes us somewhere new and interesting in the story from a vampire perspective. But, I'm pretty starkly against Angel becoming a vampire again anyway, so while I know most will love it, and it's not anything Brian or Joss has to apologize for, I'm bound to be disappointed by any way they do it. A couple other continuity issues revamping him right now would raise are that vampires don't come back right away, and we would be ignoring completely the other possibility which is... 2. Angel will spontaneously regenerate as a human. We've had this foreshadowed for a while. The Slayers keep coming back. Gunn's vampires apparently have been coming back. Spike just came back. It all happens in that building. Ostensibly, as soon as Angel "dies", whatever mojo is going on in that building that turns into a no harm, no foul training zone will kick in, and he'll be back on his feet, still human. I hope this is what happens, of course, but I'm not optimistic. But, seriously, it absolutely *must* be dealt with in the story if it's not what happens. We can't have Spike just spontaneously UNDUST, show up talking about how easy it is to not be dead in Hell-A, and then re-vamp Angel without the story even addressing why he didn't just... get better, can't we? I really, really hope this is what happens with Angel. The set up seems to be there. All the revamping stuff could be a mislead. I'm hoping. As to the rest of the issue... I like Gunn as a villain. I like his emotional shifts, his arrogance, but also how he suddenly feels like he's been screwed over, and then suddenly he sees his opportunity and goes for it. Apparently, his visions told him he'd be killing "Fred"? He did have a chance in Chapter 9, though, didn't he? Regardless, at least we know she's not invulnerable in Fred mode. And we know how Illyria gets out. The bad news is I have to assume that the real Fred is well and truly gone at this point if she was ever really there at all Cordy the dragon... a noble death. Gwen... if she's dead, which she may well be, I was impressed with it emotionally, but I have to say, we never really learned what the hell was going on there. She hopes Charles was right, but right about *what*? We've never really gotten more than hints of what he thinks he can accomplish, and nothing of how he convinced Gwen of it. She was willing to betray Connor to achieve it (and willing to die to protect him, awwwwww Gwonnor). But she also seemed to think Gunn had some great vision that would either A) save her, or B) make it worth it, and we haven't gotten that at all yet. It's just confusing. Overall, it's a very good issue. Issue #12 didn't work for me nearly as well as it did for others, but Issue #13 definitely was better. I'm not comfortable yet about where things are going with Angel's human or vampire status, and that it can all be settled without continuity errors of the mythology (easily avoided by not revamping him!), but the emotional impact of the story, especially Connor, Cordy, Angel, and Gwen in this issue, protect the fun and excitement this series brings to the table.
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Post by KingofCretins on Oct 19, 2008 1:05:33 GMT -5
Someone who is asleep can not consent to sex.
Female on male rape will almost never be prosecuted and even less likely ever convicted.
Rape is probably the trickiest of crimes, because it's one of the only crimes for which the "actus reus", or physical act, is something that is legal under other circumstances.
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Post by KingofCretins on Oct 2, 2008 11:58:21 GMT -5
Except being the guardian of the Deeper Well requires more than just being a warrior like Kamal in Judgment. I see Drogyn as being chosen for that position because of his honor ("cannot tell a lie") as well as his talents as a warrior. With both prerequisites in mind, Angel would be the last person acceptable as the guardian of the Deeper Well because he murdered Drogyn dishonorably. Also, Drogyn seems to have been chosen for this position the way Kamal was chosen to be the woman's protector in Judgment. Angel had to step in because there was no time to call another warrior - he was the only suitable candidate at the time. In the Deeper Well, there would be time to call in another guardian. This all presupposes, without any supporting evidence in the text, that Drogyn's particularly gifts were essential to his role at the Well. Why assume that, other than to get Angel off the hook? We don't even know if there's anybody else watching out for the Well to call anyone else in. There's no evidence that this is a lineage of chosen like the Slayer line. Without any mythological basis to argue against this being Angel's responsibility, we can only rely on what we know of his character. His character says it's now his job, or the character has been changed. Again, where is all this mythology around the Well coming from? Apart from that it's old and important, we don't know if the Powers oversee it or have any role in selecting its guardian. We don't know that the "honor" of the person guarding it is important to the job. Drogyn, for his part, claims to have been the keeper of the Well "for decades" -- only for decades, apparently, since we know him to have been at least 1000 years old. What we know of him personally is just what Wes said -- "Gunn, this is Drogyn, the battlebrand, given eternal youth a thousand years ago. Demonbane, truthsayer... " If his particular degree of honor was essential to being the Guardian of the Well, then the Well has had hundreds of years worth of guys like Drogyn if he's only been on the job for decades. Sounds very much like it *is* a job, a mission he took on, just as Kamal took on being the Pregnant Woman's champion.
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Post by KingofCretins on Oct 1, 2008 14:50:24 GMT -5
The Well is presumably unguarded -- we have no mythology to suggest that the Battlebrand is either A) a lineage like the Slayer, or B) even tied to the Well at all.
The real answer to who should guard it is the man responsible for the vacancy -- Angel. We've already seen this with him.
Angel 2.01 "Judgment"
He was talking about Kamal, the Prio Motu demon protecting the pregnant woman. Angel killed Kamal. Angel is solely and directly responsible for Drogyn's death, including killing him. Whatever Drogyn's mission was, it's his now. Unless the character has lost a great deal of the honor he had in Season 2.
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Post by KingofCretins on Sept 18, 2008 16:34:35 GMT -5
That Meltzer quote... is fantastic. "My job isn’t to show you what’s not there, but what you’ve always seen before but never thought was there."
That looks... very suggestive of something 'shippy.
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Post by KingofCretins on Sept 8, 2008 1:43:02 GMT -5
I'm no fan of either of Buffy's vampire relationships, but I think it was more to do with Angel than with Spike, if it had to do with Spike at all. There's really no comparing the overall influence on who Buffy is no between the two of them. And, besides, is it as important what Joss has said, or what Willow would think of in that context?
I actually thought the line was really annoying and short-sighted.
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Post by KingofCretins on Sept 7, 2008 16:53:38 GMT -5
I'm Simba
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Post by KingofCretins on Sept 5, 2008 18:44:04 GMT -5
Stephen -- enjoy your work on "After the Fall" very much. Are there any kinds of scenes you look forward to working on more or less than others? Such as romance and kissing, or big set piece fight scenes?
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Post by KingofCretins on Sept 4, 2008 12:15:41 GMT -5
Not the best Season 8 issue so far, but it still advances the plot considerably.
I think Buffy and Fray's partnership is showing us some really difficult things about Buffy this season. For a while now, most of us have been really happy that Buffy has found her sense of humor again and it's been swell. It's felt like she's no longer the rather bitter and cold Buffy she often was in Seasons 6 and 7. And that's true, but only in a sense. In fact, it's true only in the worst sense. Buffy has lost the mission, and lost it badly. For all her good cheer and good humor that she's managed... she can no longer be bothered to jump in and slay some vampires to protect people. She was ready to accept watching vampires kill some people so that the vampires in question would be alive to follow back to their headquarters. Melaka, for her part, was rightfully disgusted by this and dove in... which only exposed her to Willow and whatever she had to say.
I do find it interesting to see Buffy and Erin together, commiserating about being big sisters, and Buffy say she thought about becoming a cop. Either that's a straight retcon of "What's My Line", or we're learning something new about Buffy -- at the time, she was openly offended at the idea law enforcement was a good career for her. Now, though, it seems like a good idea for a non-Slayer happy ending for her if Joss ever needs to come up with one.
Melaka is a joy, IMO. I still think she's going to be killed in 8.19, but I'm glad she's here to give Buffy a kick in the ass. I don't know what Willow must have shown her to make her turn on Buffy, but for the first time I'm starting to think it must have been legit if Fray thinks it's bad. Either Buffy really is dangerous and Fray and FDW are on the right side, or Willow lied to Fray. Either is possible right now.
I liked the Gunther scene, nice to see two good bad guy types have a nice staredown. Didn't seem to advance the story, but it was cool.
The forest scene with Xander and Dawn was pretty solid -- definitely improved by having the two of them completely indifferent to the Fire Ent guys, the obligatory Gilmore Girls reference by Xander, and the Fire Ent guy being all confused that something is scarier than they are. The chemistry and tension between Xander and Dawn is pretty stable, and teetering on 'shippy.
Willow... I have basically lost all respect for. Again with the serpent lady sex, and dialogue that suggests that she A) is enjoying it, and B) is somehow loyal to Vasuki, willingly. It strikes me as being little more than an affair that happens to be magically useful. I think Tara would be ashamed of what Willow has let herself turn into, and not just future Willow. I liked the touch that future Willow is essentially powerless -- just used all her power to stay alive for this, one assumes. So maybe 8.19 will have FDW dying, too.
Interesting trivia -- Willow telling Fray that the most important men in both of their lives (meaning Buffy's and Fray's) are both vampires. Seems like Joss is A) declaring for the 50% of the audience that prefers the vampire 'ships, and B) implying he is going to get off that fence eventually. Oh well.
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Post by KingofCretins on Sept 1, 2008 9:05:36 GMT -5
I tend to agree. It just goes with the overall sensuality of the cover. No, I don't see any Man Centaur Lovin going on, but I think words might be said, looks shared, lips touched. Still hoping not in hopes of Buffy/Xander -- Xander/Dawn is one of the few things that would make Buffy/Xander hard to pull off. But, it does feel like the direction of the story.
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Post by KingofCretins on Aug 31, 2008 17:10:40 GMT -5
Well, the commercials were well-intended enough -- they needed to reach these girls as best as they could. But, they do reveal just how cavalier they'd gotten, since the commercial itself isn't very subtle.
I had always imagined that work like this would be very person to person, or, like in my fic "Franchises", be the Scoobies going local and advertising meetings to be low-profile.
I really like the idea that Faith will show up and have to "reign in" Buffy a little bit. That, or that Buffy herself will look to Faith to set her back on track.
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Post by KingofCretins on Aug 31, 2008 16:40:20 GMT -5
As in the slayers are being pulled away from their foundation which is humanity? It's certainly true that recent events have made the slayers seen as enemies by humans rather than saviors or righteous protectors. I believe the 'Vampires in Public' arc will further demonstrate how the slayers are becoming alienated from who they were meant to protect - humanity itself. This is exactly what I meant. One might also have said "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain", even. The upshot is that Slayers, collectively, are dehumanizing already. Buffy robs banks. Sociopath Simone forms an armed gang. Genevieve turns from spoiled girl into murderous megalomaniac with just gentle manipulation. Gen. Voll's reference to them as a master race sounded like a paranoid throwaway line when he said it... but not as much now. And the next step is exposing the supernatural world and showing Buffy that the humans, the "mere" people, aren't going to see a difference between the things they fear and the things monsters fear. Even Xander has lost those connections. He used to be the one with a job and, at least theoretically, friends outside the Scooby circle (insofar as his "guys" were friends after he became a contractor, but there was Richard). Dawn had a life, but it was cut off by the three-stage hex. The point Emmie raises even connects a little to "Angel" Season 5, because the lack of the old connections to the world outside fighting the supernatural evil (or being the supernatural evil's puppets) was raised in Gunn's scenes of "Not Fade Away" when he goes to see Anne. Didn't Buffy once say that her work is too important to show the world? The hell? And Buffy *has* forgotten that, as well as the lessons of Season 4. Maybe there's somebody else who remembers those lessons better who is acting against her now *RileyisTwilight*
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Post by KingofCretins on Aug 31, 2008 16:10:00 GMT -5
As with many things, it's a theory that is arguably foreshadowed by the events of Season 7...
I think Emmie has grasped onto something with genuine meaning in the Slayer mythology -- the power is finite, but it's also unstable. I think this is another analogy Xander would be able to appreciate from his profession.
When you are mounting any kind of fixture in drywall, you mark and prepare a drill spot or a place to put an anchor carefully before using it. Why? Drywall isn't very sturdy under a lot of working, so if you need to redrill, renail, or resink it, it becomes more and more fractuous each time.
The Slayer lineage, by whatever means it has, anchors the Slayer power to the wall of human life by drilling into exactly one girl at a time.
The spell basically fired a minigun full of nails into the wall... and the foundation is giving out.
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Post by KingofCretins on Aug 30, 2008 23:40:08 GMT -5
Agree.
Xander/Summers Woman = win.
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