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Post by Wyndam on Feb 21, 2010 17:20:32 GMT -5
So I'm hearing this issue's exact name is: "Immortality for Dummies: The Crown Prince Syndrome, Part 3 (The Trouble With Felicia)" (Issue #30)Can anyone confirm? I've got to say that is the stupidest comic issue name I've ever heard. For crying out loud- if the writers don't give this arc a definitive name soon I reckon we'll have to. Maybe "Who are you and wtf have you done with Spike?" That's not the name, each issue has its own title: Angel #28 - The Crown Prince Syndrome Angel #29 - Immortality for Dummies Angel #30 - The Trouble With Felicia There isn't a title for this arc (yet).
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
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Post by Paul on Feb 21, 2010 18:32:07 GMT -5
Whether you liked Aftermath or not, James is now a part of the Angel mythology. Why don't you want him to exist? hi i know you dont say it to me but i want to explain it for myself .İ dont want james to be exiist because : Cheap bad angels (you know big winged guys not our main character ) stories (look at supernatural , legion and soo ) doesnt make me happy Angels world is strong and cruel there wasnt fighting angels everywhere ( we never saw anythin like that if powers got angels why they need champions ) you know thats the reason why slayer exist There is no one divine god in universe and we deffinetly know powers never care humans (look whole season 4 ) or can diffent them Also even that i m reading all the angel comic i know that post atf comics are non cononcial ( whedon nearly said that himself actually ) and such a big universal change (power got their own fighters and like ..) cant be accepted without whedon saying anything about that so here my reasons and thanks for reading them and sorry for my english I think the Potentates are a cool addition to the Buffyverse. Superficially, men with wings are always a cool visual and especially suit the comic book medium (Angel from X-Men). We haven't seen James in a fight scene since Aftermath but I hope Willingham intends to use him for aerial battles. I don't think the Potentates as a concept really clash with what little we know about the Powers That Be. They're a zealous, amoral race of warriors who don't care about humanity, just about eliminating evil in any form. Sounds a lot like Jasmine. James explains that no more than a couple of Potentates can access Earth at a time (the events of AtF allowed more to break through), which explains why we've never seen them before and why the PTB still need Champions like Angel. The fact that James rejects his people's beliefs and joins Angel Investigations makes him a cool, rebellious individual. Say what you like about Aftermath, but the basic ingredients for a great character are there. His intelligent but slightly robotic personality has already been used to good comedic effect within the team. And the PTB have nothing to do with the Slayer. The Slayer was a man-made warrior, not a Champion of the Powers.
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Feb 21, 2010 20:46:11 GMT -5
Paul, what I think Emmie was getting at with James is that, in a room with far more developed characters such as Spike and Gunn, the only character the writer can manage to highlight is him, not Kate or Connor or Betta George even.
I'm okay with James and Dez coming along for the ride, but there's a point when you've just got too many characters on the page, and Willingham seems more willing to use the fresh, non-developed characters as opposed to the established ones. It's perhaps a sign that he isn't fully comfortable writing in each character's skin just yet.
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Post by Emmie on Feb 21, 2010 22:41:34 GMT -5
I'm still waiting for the intense development of Gunn's emotional rollercoaster to actually be addressed in the group. I care about that. I care about five years of Gunn's character arc. In a scene where James is doing comic relief and Gunn isn't being written well, I don't view that as a win. I've always been of the mind that Betta George is (to a degree) Lynch's voice actually. So apparently Willingham can't channel Brian Lynch either. I'm still waiting for the extreme character development from After the Fall to be keyed into the current arc. Aftermath didn't deal with the aftermath and it appears like Willingham's arc so far isn't planning to delve into the characters emotional journey either (though Illyria's story sounds like it could go either way). My main point, Paul, is that in a that room James can and should be used if that's what the writer wants. But it does not sell the book to me that Willingham can do James well and not deliver on the characters that actually make me want to read the Angel comics. I care about character-arc-continuity and I'm frankly not seeing it on IDW's horizon. Unifying vision, please for the love of GOD. And yeah, I'm not exactly lovin' Spike's character being reduced to a punchline. Yes, you can undercut Spike's heroism and god, it's hilarious. But that isn't all he is and that seems to be most of what's being shown recently. Spike is a romantic poet too and I haven't seen a single writer at IDW realize and express that (Lynch flirted with the idea in Spike's dream where he is shopping with Fred). The characterization in the comics is really falling flat--I'm not reading displays of the multi-faceted characters I know and love. I can write epically long essays on the notes they're not hitting--they're playing a cover of a classic and they're missing layers like whoa. (I really need to stop posting in this board. I'm always such a downer in here. But hey, maybe y'all will enjoy disagreeing with me.)
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Feb 21, 2010 23:20:14 GMT -5
I'm with you, Emmie, especially with regards to Gunn and Spike. Those two have been through a lot since their characters first started (Spike way back in "School Hard", Gunn in Angel episode "War Zone"), particularly with recent developments (I love Spike's arc in After the Fall, and Gunn has been great since the beginning of After the Fall and following through in Only Human) and I want there to be an acknowledgment of that somehow. Instead, it just feels like Willingham is starting completely, 100% over again. I really hate that.
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cant
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 32
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Post by cant on Feb 22, 2010 2:43:07 GMT -5
hi.Me again İ know slayer is manmade thats the reason there is a slayer and not angels because humans needs something to protect them from evil.There is no help from ( even this meaning isnt helping but destroying everything evil ) faşist goos type angel like demons (come onnnnnn ilove winged man thing but roman costume ......... and its started to became a even more cligue than good angels ) the events of AtF allowed more to break through : i read that too but what i remember from atf is powers cant do anything you know except little parlor trick which is also doing very hard.Soooooooo .................. thats not working for me either.
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BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Feb 27, 2010 18:38:22 GMT -5
Just read this issue. The only thing I really like about The Trouble With Felicia is Brian Denham's artwork (minus George, which I'm hugely disappointed in) and Alfred Rockefeller's coloring (minus George, again). My faith in Bill Willingham is withering. Bill Willingham can't write the Angel characters if his life depended on it. I see the Aftermath characters are still around, which blows. The whole Illyria wanting to mate with Connor is complete crap. The only thing I want to see now is Angel punishing (hopefully killing) the staff over in Innovation Labs and Connor's army.
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
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Post by The Night Lord on Mar 5, 2010 20:50:44 GMT -5
Read the issue the other day and I'm kinda at: wth?
First, there is Spike's regenerating limbs ability. It was established waaay back in 'Teacher's Pet' that vampires cannot regenerate lost limbs. Remember Fork Man? Secondly, Illyria can read minds AND she wants to mate with Connor? Man, he sure knows how to get the girls (older and powerful girls). And who is the funny looking floaty fish?
And hey, since Twilight's identity has been revealed, does this arc really matter or something?
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Mar 5, 2010 21:15:06 GMT -5
And hey, since Twilight's identity has been revealed, does this arc really matter or something? Yes. It does.
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Post by winterdreamer on Mar 6, 2010 1:48:53 GMT -5
That would be Beta george.....He first showed up in Spike: Asyum (where he died) was resurected for Spike: Shadow Puppets....then joined the Angel gang in After the Fall~where he was a very important part of the plot. Essentialy he is (as phrased by the gooey thing Spike keeps in the trunk of his car) a 'floating fish that brain yells'.
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iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:10]
Posts: 684
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Post by iloveromy on Mar 6, 2010 18:04:28 GMT -5
I'm still waiting for the intense development of Gunn's emotional rollercoaster to actually be addressed in the group. I care about that. I care about five years of Gunn's character arc. In a scene where James is doing comic relief and Gunn isn't being written well, I don't view that as a win. I've always been of the mind that Betta George is (to a degree) Lynch's voice actually. So apparently Willingham can't channel Brian Lynch either. I'm still waiting for the extreme character development from After the Fall to be keyed into the current arc. Aftermath didn't deal with the aftermath and it appears like Willingham's arc so far isn't planning to delve into the characters emotional journey either (though Illyria's story sounds like it could go either way). My main point, Paul, is that in a that room James can and should be used if that's what the writer wants. But it does not sell the book to me that Willingham can do James well and not deliver on the characters that actually make me want to read the Angel comics. I care about character-arc-continuity and I'm frankly not seeing it on IDW's horizon. Unifying vision, please for the love of GOD. And yeah, I'm not exactly lovin' Spike's character being reduced to a punchline. Yes, you can undercut Spike's heroism and god, it's hilarious. But that isn't all he is and that seems to be most of what's being shown recently. Spike is a romantic poet too and I haven't seen a single writer at IDW realize and express that (Lynch flirted with the idea in Spike's dream where he is shopping with Fred). The characterization in the comics is really falling flat--I'm not reading displays of the multi-faceted characters I know and love. I can write epically long essays on the notes they're not hitting--they're playing a cover of a classic and they're missing layers like whoa. (I really need to stop posting in this board. I'm always such a downer in here. But hey, maybe y'all will enjoy disagreeing with me.) Please don't stop posting. I stopped reading Angel two issues into Aftermath. Well, no, that's not true, I got both issues of Drusilla, then stopped. I was hoping for the story to find focus and the characters to have purpose and I don't think IDW is there. They are selling the Angel brand on short arcs without an overall vision.
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Post by wenxina on Mar 6, 2010 18:07:24 GMT -5
Pretty sure that Willingham is supposed to be on for a longer haul, though. And that he's pretty meticulous about setting up a gameplan and such. However, he's also apparently still missing the mark in terms of writing the characters right now...
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iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:10]
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Post by iloveromy on Mar 6, 2010 20:48:47 GMT -5
I'll probably check them out in TPB form. I'm just lost interest after Brian turned his focus to Spike. I'll read Spike's on going.
Hopefully when Joss steps in and gives IDW notes on Angel, the story will get grab my attention again.
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Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Mar 6, 2010 21:13:16 GMT -5
Hopefully when Joss steps in and gives IDW notes on Angel, the story will get grab my attention again. Is he doing this?
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Post by Wyndam on Mar 6, 2010 21:47:07 GMT -5
Hopefully when Joss steps in and gives IDW notes on Angel, the story will get grab my attention again. Is he doing this? No, not since After the Fall.
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Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Mar 6, 2010 21:49:35 GMT -5
I mean has be said that the will ever give anymore input to IDW?
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Post by Wyndam on Mar 6, 2010 21:59:10 GMT -5
Nope, at least not that anyone has heard outside of IDW.
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balesthebloody
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Post by balesthebloody on Mar 7, 2010 11:43:34 GMT -5
Which is really sad. I think what "Angel" needs right now is some direction. I think it is safe to say that since Mr. Lynch left the title "Angel" has been lacking. Now with the whole Twilight is Angel and Angel is Twilight revel I think the title needs to start having some direction towards the event of him becoming Twilight. However the only way I see this happening is with Joss going to IDW and outlining what needs to happen. I know he doesn't have time to write it but I have faith in almost any writer that they can get the job done.
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
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Post by The Night Lord on Mar 10, 2010 0:55:44 GMT -5
That would be Beta george.....He first showed up in Spike: Asyum (where he died) was resurected for Spike: Shadow Puppets....then joined the Angel gang in After the Fall~where he was a very important part of the plot. Essentialy he is (as phrased by the gooey thing Spike keeps in the trunk of his car) a 'floating fish that brain yells'. I was being sarcastic
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Mar 11, 2010 15:32:05 GMT -5
Betta george has been so marginalized . I feel bad for the poor little Brian Fish but he is an original character so there's room for error .
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