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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Feb 23, 2010 18:20:53 GMT -5
I see where you're coming from. If I wasn't a die hard Spike fan I might be wanting the spotlight to be on another character for a change. But lucky me, I'm pretty much only interested in Spike.  It would be cool with a mini series focusing on different characters POV through a common adventure. Like for 5 issues a big bad is fought, and each issue is being told from one character's POV. I would like to read from Nina's, Lorne's, Groo's, Gunn's and Cordelia's perspective(since she's been "brought back" we might as well make the best of it, see her watching from above, providing her thoughts on the other characters.) |
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Feb 23, 2010 19:59:41 GMT -5
I see where you're coming from. If I wasn't a die hard Spike fan I might be wanting the spotlight to be on another character for a change. But lucky me, I'm pretty much only interested in Spike. It would be cool with a mini series focusing on different characters POV through a common adventure. Like for 5 issues a big bad is fought, and each issue is being told from one character's POV. I would like to read from Nina's, Lorne's, Groo's, Gunn's and Cordelia's perspective(since she's been "brought back" we might as well make the best of it, see her watching from above, providing her thoughts on the other characters.) I love Spike too (extremely excited about the ongoing) but there's such a thing as overexposure. With every title Spike appears in, his character gets more and more diluted. It's the Wolverine factor. Wolverine started out in the 70s as a cool scene stealer. In the 80s, he'd become a well-developed three dimensional character capable of sustaining his own storylines and series. By the 90s, his popularity had gone through the roof and people were buying titles purely to see him. Nowadays, he appears in over half a dozen books a month and most of them don't mean a damn thing to his character. He's just a marketing device, not a character. I suspect Brian's series is the only place we'll see any substantial character development for Spike in the future. The rest will be "Look fans, it's Spike! Give us your money! $$$" |
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Post by winterdreamer on Feb 23, 2010 21:35:25 GMT -5
I have to say I dont mind the additional projects with Spike....I mean, sure they may not add oodles to the character~but chances are its gonna be lots of fun and its not like comics break the bank, so I dont mind spending.  I tend to just read/watch/play entertainment for the sheer enjoyment I get out of it.....if its deep thats great, if its just fun thats cool too. (and personaly I think it looks to be fantastic) Spike cant always be moping about Buffy or being deep....he wants to go get drunk & throw vampires onto fences, I'm good with it. Also, I am guessing (by the cover) the Spike/Eddie interaction is going to be funny......although currently it looks a lot like they are having an argument about who is taller. (or perhaps who has the tighter pants  ) |
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Post by wenxina on Feb 23, 2010 21:49:20 GMT -5
Vamp Limey vs. Demon Guido... this will be interesting...
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Feb 23, 2010 22:08:34 GMT -5
BTW, Wolverine factor is now Deadpool factor.  Although I guess Deadpool has more mass appeal than Wolvie, or whatever. That doesn't mean he needs a variant cover for every damn Marvel book in existence.  |
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Kratos
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Post by Kratos on Feb 24, 2010 6:31:42 GMT -5
I'm getting excited about this series. I don't think Spike is being overexposured. I do think this about Angel, having just finished another miniseries + having an ongoing series + (s8 spoilers) Being the bigbad in season8 . But you don't see people complaining about him. Wolverine,Batman,ect all cool heroes that over the years got more popular and had more stories. Idw's terrible writing of Spike in the Angel series makes me damn glad that they atleast give the Spike fans their own stories away from Angel. For Spike, his last comic was Spike:After the fall which dates back to july 2008. Well over a year ago. I don't see Spike getting any real development in the Angel series. I don't know this new writer and i'm not familier with his earlier work. But reading some of his comments on the net makes me very hopeful. I don't think this series "The Devil you know" will be very deep but that's ok. It would be a nice breather between Spike:After the fall and the upcoming Spike series. To just have a story where Spike is having fun, kicking ass and taking names while doing it. I'm guessing being a mini-series it will be 4 issues, hopefully more. Any idea when it will be released? |
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Post by wenxina on Feb 24, 2010 9:29:19 GMT -5
I don't think this series "The Devil you know" will be very deep but that's ok. Isn't that the problem with the Spike character in the ANGEL series right now? That he's written so superficially that he's become a caricature of himself? |
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Feb 24, 2010 9:53:26 GMT -5
BTW, Wolverine factor is now Deadpool factor. Although I guess Deadpool has more mass appeal than Wolvie, or whatever. That doesn't mean he needs a variant cover for every damn Marvel book in existence. F***ing tell me about it. Half the X-solicits are bloody Deadpool titles. Doesn't he have like four ongoing series? He's a great character but I can't stand him anymore because he's so overused. I'm getting excited about this series. I don't think Spike is being overexposured. I do think this about Angel, having just finished another miniseries + having an ongoing series + (s8 spoilers) Being the bigbad in season8 . But you don't see people complaining about him. At least there's some diversity in the Angel books, though. You have the Angel ongoing (set in the present day), a varied selection of spin-offs (most of which are set in the character's past, WWII etc), and S8 (which is likely set in the character's personal future, but that's yet to be confirmed... either way it's an original and relevant take on the character). Spike, on the other hand, is appearing in three titles set during the same time period; his role in the Angel title is superficial and this miniseries doesn't look that exciting (IMO). It just feels like IDW is sticking him in the books because he's Spike, not because there's a story to be told. I don't think this series "The Devil you know" will be very deep but that's ok. Isn't that the problem with the Spike character in the ANGEL series right now? That he's written so superficially that he's become a caricature of himself? It's poor understanding of the character as well. Willingham seems to have him down as some kind of womanizing horndog, which is a total misconception. If he was at least an accurate caricature, it would be more bearable. |
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Kratos
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Post by Kratos on Feb 24, 2010 10:11:24 GMT -5
Isn't that the problem with the Spike character in the ANGEL series right now? That he's written so superficially that he's become a caricature of himself? Yes and no, the problem with the Spike in the Angel series is that he's totally OOC. The oldest and simplest characteristics are used for the current Spike and that does't work in anyway. It would be like taking Angel's negative characteristics from the start of the series. He was cowardly(didn't want to confront The Master, Xander had to force him), not a fighter(he told Buffy that he had always been weak),ect and use these in current Angel persona. I can guarentee you that forums would be on fire with complaints and for good reason. What we have seen so far, Spike's plans always fails or are a joke, nobody takes Spike's seriously, he flirts with everyone, Connor being the leader which is such a joke on itself. I've said this before but i really do hope that there won't be any of this destiny bullcrap in the Spike series that is so dominant in the Angel series. Ugh Angel and Connor the chosen ones  I've read that "The devil you know" is more an actionseries and makes Spike look badass, which is fine by me, we've never gotten that before. I'm sure Brian's series will have plenty of Spike more in touch with his feelings and explore/develop the character. But it is just as fun having Spike kick ass. Fighting and love are his two biggest passions, love i don't see him getting any further with, Buffy remains the love of his life and the reunion will come from the big man Joss himself. So fighting remains the only passion and he's damn good at it, i want to see the same power and skill he had being evil and getting a legendary rep for it now used for good. At least there's some diversity in the Angel books, though. You have the Angel ongoing (set in the present day), a varied selection of spin-offs (most of which are set in the character's past, WWII etc), and S8 (which is likely set in the character's personal future, but that's yet to be confirmed... either way it's an original and relevant take on the character). Spike, on the other hand, is appearing in three titles set during the same time period; his role in the Angel title is superficial and this miniseries doesn't look that exciting (IMO). It just feels like IDW is sticking him in the books because he's Spike, not because there's a story to be told. I think Bill Williams stated that The Devil you know takes place in one nights time as to not clash with the story Brian will tell. I agree about Spike in the main-Angel series, i don't see him having any purpose there and do feel he should be out of it. Hopefully with the rise of complaints these last issues they will make it happen. And anyway i doubt Spike fans are still buying the Angel series for Spike, lots of non happy campers. There's only one other upcoming Spike miniseries which is from John Byrne, like his past Angel story this will be a past Spike story so it won't clash with anything they have going on now. |
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
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Post by neowhobaz on Feb 25, 2010 17:24:15 GMT -5
I was wondering what that cover was gonna be 4. Can't say as I'm sad either. I totally agree with people when it comes to over exposure but only when its done gratuitously. We won't really know that about this use of Spike in this until it comes out so until then, excited am me . |
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Post by winterdreamer on Mar 24, 2010 12:29:27 GMT -5
From a link at Whedonesque I see that the first issue of 'The devil you know' is due out in June. (which is awesome, something else for me to read while BtVS does its summer-hiatus thing) Anyway~I dont think the little plot-blurb had been posted yet, so.... SPIKE: THE DEVIL YOU KNOW #1 Written by Bill Williams, art by Chris Cross, covers by Franco Urru. While out and about (drinking, naturally) Spike gets in trouble over a girl (of course) and finds himself in the middle of a conspiracy that involves Hellmouths, blood factories, and demons. Just another day in Los Angeles, really. But when devil Eddie Hope gets involved, they might just kill each other before getting to the bad guys. I think its going to be lots of fun. |
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nmcil
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Post by nmcil on Mar 24, 2010 17:52:38 GMT -5
This may sound ungrateful, but... Am I the only one[/b] who is getting tired of Angel Minni-Series, One-Shots, Episode Comics, ect? I wanted to keep up with everything, and add them to my collection, but it seems like way too much work, and money now. I don't even enjoy the main line that much anymore, so doing a mini-series off of it seems like a waste of time, imo. :/[/quote] No, you are not the only one. Beleive me, I am happy that IDW is showing so much love to the Angel franchise, I just think they need to slow their roll and concentrate on the main book (and the Spike series, of course).[/quote] As much as I love Drusilla - for me her comics seemed like product done just to sell another book - I think a lot of the current readers, like myself, who never read comics books are starting to have "burn out" - especially with so many issues and how slowly this format advances the stories for how the characters seem to change from the TV series, but without the background story for that change. Curious about how many new readers make up the current fan base - Thus far, and I was really hoping that I would like this new writer and his work, but I am totally hating this Spike chracterization. This Spike, in his current persona, is not a Spike that I would like at all. |
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Post by henzINNIT on Mar 24, 2010 19:28:55 GMT -5
IDW seem a little hasty in general. While After the Fall was going, I thought they had Dark Horse beat; but the changing of artists and colourists hurt that story more than I realised. Since that story wrapped, it seems like there's a lack of certainty about the title's future and IDW's way of dealing with that appears to be "throw stories at the wall and see what sticks".
Spike's rise in status was earned by Lynch. His ATF side-story shows perfectly how the character can hold a title (although it didn't justify stealing the main title's artist). This book confuses me as it seems to be stealing the thunder from the big "Spike" launch a bit.
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Post by Wyndam on Mar 24, 2010 20:04:18 GMT -5
Cover and solicitation:  SPIKE: THE DEVIL YOU KNOW #1
Written by Bill Williams, art by Chris Cross, covers by Franco Urru.
While out and about (drinking, naturally) Spike gets in trouble over a girl (of course) and finds himself in the middle of a conspiracy that involves Hellmouths, blood factories, and demons. Just another day in Los Angeles, really. But when devil Eddie Hope gets involved, they might just kill each other before getting to the bad guys.
32 pages, $3.99. |
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Post by Emmie on Mar 25, 2010 0:43:18 GMT -5
I'd disagree that Spike's rise in status was earned by Lynch. Rather, Spike's rise in status was earned by his story in the TV show and the fact that there were clear plans for a Spike movie or spinoff series for him. He's had leading man potential for a long time, long before the comics decided to capitalize on it.
But yeah, I agree that the side story feels like it's stealing the thunder from the upcoming Spike series. I think the comments on him becoming the new Wolverine or Dead Pool is interesting. It's like the company is trying to capitalize on the Spike-effect, but to me the best way to do that is great Spike characterization. The OOC of this issue shows a lack of heart when it comes to expressing Spike. And the Spike that's being depicted by Willingham is not the kind of character that can carry his own title, so I'm baffled by what they think they're doing.
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Post by henzINNIT on Mar 25, 2010 8:11:58 GMT -5
When I said "earned" by Lynch I probably should have said "validated" or something. He obviously grew in popularity and story potential a long way back, but it was Lynch that has given Spike the important solo material so far. It was certainly down Asylum and After the Fall that I see the potential in a Spike series, because honestly I never thought he'd be an effective lead before them.
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Kratos
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Post by Kratos on Mar 25, 2010 10:07:52 GMT -5
Spike's rise in status was earned by Lynch. His ATF side-story shows perfectly how the character can hold a title (although it didn't justify stealing the main title's artist). This book confuses me as it seems to be stealing the thunder from the big "Spike" launch a bit. Plenty of Spike fans had long seen the potential in Spike as the leading man. As Emmie pointed out we came very close to having a Spike series/dvd movies,ect And Brian already demonstrated with with Asylum,Shadow puppets that Spike could hold his own title. These series were also Franco's first foray in the Buffyverse, technically Angel stole him away. I'd disagree that Spike's rise in status was earned by Lynch. Rather, Spike's rise in status was earned by his story in the TV show and the fact that there were clear plans for a Spike movie or spinoff series for him. He's had leading man potential for a long time, long before the comics decided to capitalize on it. But yeah, I agree that the side story feels like it's stealing the thunder from the upcoming Spike series. I think the comments on him becoming the new Wolverine or Dead Pool is interesting. It's like the company is trying to capitalize on the Spike-effect, but to me the best way to do that is great Spike characterization. The OOC of this issue shows a lack of heart when it comes to expressing Spike. And the Spike that's being depicted by Willingham is not the kind of character that can carry his own title, so I'm baffled by what they think they're doing. Agreed, frankly i'm amazed it took Idw 5years before finally starting Spike's own series. Many of their stories seem like they only watched season 5 Angel to reference Spike. Spike is so much more then that one hit and miss season. But even that season doesn't match Willingham's terrible writing of Spike. He simply doesn't get the character. And his version of Spike would never have the huge following of Joss's Spike. I think it's cool when Spike is compared to Wolverine, Angel i would see as Cyclops but for the love of god give the character it's own identity. Idw's treatment of Spike is exactly what Joss refused to do in his own series, simply use him as a background character with no real purpose. In Joss's own words, Spike is a too important of character. Yet that's exactly what he's reduced to in the Angel series, background character, the dumb little mule that follows Angel(and now Connor's which is a whole new world of humilating) lead. Like someone else pointed out, Willingham is making such a big deal about Angel being a vampire with soul. Euh hello, Spike is also a vampire with a soul and more importantly he chose to get one. On a cosmic scale that makes it a 1000 times more significant. Another thing, his cast is way too big and dull. Having Connor lead makes no sense. This is what happens when you have a character that isn't lead material, Connor imo is one of them. The rest of the gang, characters that don't matter and shouldn't have such a huge focus on, Des,James,Nina,Kate,ect. I was bummed to hear Brian say in a recent Q&A that he will make all three versions of Spike(his ongoing series+Willingham's Spike+season 8 Spike) fit into his continuity. Season8 i find only normal, it is the mother series written by Joss himself. Making it fit with it is a given if you care about the fans. But for godsake don't try to mash it with the Angel series, it's terrible. And i'm definitely not interested if we get 10 references to whatever Willingham made happen to his Spike. I doubt it would boost sales, just the opposite, i think it might hurt them. |
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Post by henzINNIT on Mar 25, 2010 11:31:33 GMT -5
Spike's rise in status was earned by Lynch. His ATF side-story shows perfectly how the character can hold a title (although it didn't justify stealing the main title's artist). This book confuses me as it seems to be stealing the thunder from the big "Spike" launch a bit. Plenty of Spike fans had long seen the potential in Spike as the leading man. As Emmie pointed out we came very close to having a Spike series/dvd movies,ect And Brian already demonstrated with with Asylum,Shadow puppets that Spike could hold his own title. These series were also Franco's first foray in the Buffyverse, technically Angel stole him away. Did you read my last post? I pretty much said exactly that. Franco was the ATF artist before the Spike off-shot was proposed and he moved over. As much as I like the Urru/Lynch "Spike" team, I think he should have stayed on Angel to maintain consistancy. I don't think he should have jumped ship half-way into a story. As for Lynch including the recent Spike material in continuity, don't panic. I doubt there will be any direct references or anything, just Brian taking responsibility not to over-write other's work. |
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Kratos
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Post by Kratos on Mar 25, 2010 12:12:01 GMT -5
Did you read my last post? I pretty much said exactly that. Yes i did and no you didn't. It was certainly down Asylum and After the Fall that I see the potential in a Spike series, because honestly I never thought he'd be an effective lead before them.As i said, Spike fans have long seen the potential for Spike as the lead, it predates any comics by Brian. We only got a fifth season of Angel because of Spike(studio's deal, no Spike=no season 5.). I don't know, i think they failed with the new artist they picked to pick up the inbetween issues. They could have just as easily picked a better artist then Franco. And he did eventually return to Angel. Why? A less then mediocre(that's being kind) story should not be taken into account while you are creating your own universe. The Spike series shouldn't support itself on the Angel series, it should stand on it's own feet. As for the not over-writing, that's easy. Willingham's Spike is worth nothing and does nothing of importance. |
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jellymoff
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Post by jellymoff on Mar 25, 2010 12:40:07 GMT -5
I've gotta go with Henz on this one regarding Lynch making Spike fit into continuity. I think that he will be respectful to the current story while still doing his own thing with Spike. He has a responsibility to make sure that IDW's stories don't contracdict each other, unless his series takes place in an "Alternate Universe". Canon is such a huge deal to so many people, and while the post ATF Angel stories are "questionably canon" they are trying to make it fit as much as possible.
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