Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Dec 18, 2009 22:30:14 GMT -5
Did anybody else almost instantly think "Topher" when he was talking about Clyde 2.0? At the time (about 40 minutes ago, heh), it seemed to fit. But maybe it really is Bennett.
Oh well. I suspect we're going to find out soon anyway. Not like a certain other super-villain whose identity remains shrouded in mystery *coughcoughTWILIGHTcoughcough*
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Post by Wyndam on Dec 18, 2009 22:32:34 GMT -5
I don't know about Bennett being Clyde 2.0. C2.0 was said to do whatever it was told to do, and Bennett kind of went and did her own thing out of personal revenge on Caroline. It's still interesting to think about and I love how mythology heavy this episode was, as well as balancing some great character stuff (heck, even Dominic went through some changes).
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Post by Emmie on Dec 18, 2009 22:33:07 GMT -5
Bennett can't be Clyde 2.0 because Clyde 2.0 is an active. If Bennett were an active, Topher's device would have dropped her. Just like Topher and Adelle have been proven to not be active imprints.
You need to look for characters we don't know enough about. Sen. Perrin surprised us because we thought he wouldn't be an active, but we were never shown proof that he wasn't an active, not like with Bennett, Topher and Adelle.
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BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Dec 18, 2009 22:33:31 GMT -5
Just got done watching Stop Loss and The Attic. It was great to see Dominic again. I'm totally psyched that Adelle was in on bringing down Rossum the whole time. It sucks that we have to wait three weeks for the remaining three episodes. Can't wait to see how everything goes down. I need me some Saunders. So Dewitt had Topher get a copy of Paul's brain when he first started working for the Dollhouse? I hope we see Mellie/November/Madeline again. So if no one ever leaves the Attic, how did Dominic get out in Epitaph One? Also... isn't the Attic pretty extreme? Are the dolls left there even when their contracts are up? Hope we get a better understanding on Bennet and Caroline's past experiences together. Too bad that Dollhouse is almost over.
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Dec 18, 2009 22:34:00 GMT -5
Bennett can't be Clyde 2.0 because Clyde 2.0 is an active. If Bennett were an active, Topher's device would have dropped her. Just like Topher and Adelle have been proven to not be active imprints. Heh, oops. Silly us, already forgetting the amazing Public Eye/Left Hand. Amazing begets amazing replaces amazing? So then it's probably Alpha? ETA: When the contracts are up, they go back to their normal lives. See: Stop-Loss, Omega.
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Post by Wyndam on Dec 18, 2009 22:36:16 GMT -5
So if no one ever leaves the Attic, how did Dominic get out in Epitaph One? Also... isn't the Attic pretty extreme? Are the dolls left there even when their contracts are up? Hope we get a better understanding on Bennet and Caroline's past experiences together. Too bad that Dollhouse is almost over. Adelle lets Dominic out because she felt sorry for him (in Epitaph One). And only Dolls that prove troublesome and disruptive to Rossum go to the Attic, not all of them end up there (Mellie and Victor were freed, for example).
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BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Dec 18, 2009 22:38:51 GMT -5
When the contracts are up, they go back to their normal lives. See: Stop-Loss, Omega. I meant if they are in the Attic and their contract is up.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Dec 18, 2009 22:39:22 GMT -5
On the one hand, it makes me want to cry that the show is coming to an end when it's getting this good.
On the other hand, I wonder if they'd be kicking ass this hard if they didn't have a ticking clock?
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Dec 18, 2009 22:40:08 GMT -5
When the contracts are up, they go back to their normal lives. See: Stop-Loss, Omega. I meant if they are in the Attic and their contract is up. If they're in the Attic, I have a feeling their contract is null and void.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Dec 18, 2009 22:40:52 GMT -5
Holy crapola. From the first minute to the last second, this episode was flawless. Don't really know what to say since my mind is blown. Kind of think this is episode we've been waiting for since Epitaph One. Really hope the writers stay on top this for the next two episodes and give us closure for the finale. And speaking of the writers, well played: "2010, maybe. We don't know how long we've been off the air".
First off, the actual attic. Holy creep factor. The room and the hallways, didn't imagine it like that. It was even better.
Loved being in the character's minds, experiencing their worst nightmares. The revelation that they were all connected, and being used to Rossum's advantage was awesome. Arcane was creepy as hell. Hmm... it was basically the same exact thing as Restless, but it just worked so well. Liked all the homages to past episodes. Seeing Dominic again was too cool. Yay for epiphanies.
All the exposition when they were in the Clyde's mind moved the show's mythology from an 8 to an elevinty billion. I'll admit I was tearing up during the final montage. Just so exciting.
Faux-evil Adelle was just... you hated her so much, but it was fascinating to watch. Olivia Williams rocked it. Liked seeing Topher and Boyd bond more, what happened with Paul was excellent, cool that more is happening with Ivy (totally expecting her to be dead next episode though). And I totally never saw the ending coming with Adelle. Total overload. Their own little army, just amazing. Now get Madeline back and I'll be happy.
Oh, and please get John Cassaday to direct more stuff. That was visual sex for your eyes.
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Post by VampSlayer on Dec 18, 2009 22:45:04 GMT -5
(Mellie and Victor were freed, for example). They didn't set Anthony/Victor free, did they? I thought his five year contract was up, like Boyd stated to Echo, and Adelle said to Rodger.
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Dec 18, 2009 22:46:53 GMT -5
They didn't set Anthony/Victor free, did they? I thought his five year contract was up, like Boyd stated to Echo, and Adelle said to Rodger. It was, but after finding out about the groupthink thing, I'm willing to bet that's when Adelle put into motion her plan. So she either thought Echo would need help in the Attic OR she was trying to keep up the facade of being a cracker-jack Rossum employee while trying to work out a plan.
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Post by Xander-Shaped Friend on Dec 18, 2009 22:50:48 GMT -5
Okay. Amazing. I was freaking out the entire time.
Oh, by the way, AMAZING TEASER. I was like NOOOO and then OH I GET IT! Crazy.
Also, the end when I saw them all together, so inspiring, in the vein of Buffy or when the powershot in "Not Fade Away"
I am OFFICIALLY angry this show is over.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Dec 18, 2009 22:53:21 GMT -5
Hmm... the co-founder and Clyde 2.0? My mind immediately went to Clive Ambrose for the co-founder and Harding as Clyde 2.0. But I can see how that might be a little obvious. Caroline knows doesn't she? So hopefully we'll find out next episode. Maybe it has something to do with that Caroline/Bennett flashback.
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Dec 18, 2009 23:04:25 GMT -5
Saw this posted on another forum, was too good to not post here: It's true, taking in Caroline was probably the worst thing Rossum has ever done.
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Post by Eric on Dec 18, 2009 23:43:12 GMT -5
Oh my god, this is probably my new favorite episode! My head is spinning with all the things I need to say. Sorry if it's a little disorganized.
Was I the only one expecting to see Madeline in the attic? At the end of The Left Hand, I was thinking Bennet could have put her in their house's attic.
As for Bennet being Clyde 2.0, I really doubt it. Summer Glau is 28 and it's most likely that the approximate age Bennet is. Clyde 2.0 was created in 1993 meaning Bennet would be about 12. I really doubt they would imprint a 12 year old, although it's possible that 2.0 was imprinted on her several years later.
Another reason: Bennet and Caroline were best friends, and in The Left Hand, Bennet very obviously remembers. If Bennet was made into Clyde 2.0, she wouldn't remember that. If she already was Clyde 2.0, I really doubt they would let her out to socialize... Unless they ordered her to interact with and befriend Echo... Again, head is spinning!
When Echo was talking about the last soldier they needed, I totally expected her to say Saunders. I should've seen Caroline coming, but I just didn't. Oh well. Saunders is coming back regardless.
As for the ending... I was a little shocked. Adelle gave Rossum Topher's plans for the remote-imprinting-machine-thing, so I really thought thats where her character was going. I guess that was kind of the point, for it to be surprising. But why give Harding Topher's plans? That wasn't an act. Was the constantly getting shit faced an act? Great ending though. Gets me excited for the last episodes. Really excited.
As for those episodes, I'm kind of thinking that Echo and Co. will end up causing the future we saw in Epitaph One by failing to take down Rossum and then Rossum retaliating in a less than pleasant way. Anyone agree? Anyone disagree?
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Post by wenxina on Dec 18, 2009 23:46:26 GMT -5
I will point to the one quasi-negative thing I have to say about this episode... this is what, the third/fourth time that a Joss production has pulled this twist on us. Where you're not so much misinformed as you are not-all-informed, and the twist shows you that tiny pivotal moment that makes all the difference. That said, it's highly effective, and even though it's been pulled before... this kid didn't see it coming. Well-played, sir.
Adelle's cold-hearted performance was stellar; Olivia Williams does play rather convincing ice bitch from hell. Giving Paul Active architecture was an amazingly ironic touch... though I'm wondering what it is that they took away from him. There was that whole thing about compromise... But being able to reprogram a brain... that's pretty freakin' cool, even if it is merely in the realm of sci-fi at the moment.
John Cassaday's directing style is definitely very graphic, and several of his scenes were quite stylized. But in the realm of the Attic, it worked out pretty well.
Finally learning what the Attic is, and its purpose beyond being a holding tank for problematic employees was pretty rewarding. The whole Dante-esque nature of the episode was kinda cool; having to go through hell to find hope, and emerging from it better than before. So... Echo is Echo... but Victor and Sierra seemed to be Anthony and Priya, respectively. I guess in order to force the Actives into that highly-stimulated state, they need something there for them to react to, but in the case of Echo, she's already a full person.
Still digesting this ep... but it's definitely awesome in the whole mythology-building way. Kinda wondering how much of Joss' original 5-year plan got smushed into this season, and definitely sad that we won't be seeing that plan come to fruition now.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Dec 18, 2009 23:49:10 GMT -5
As for Bennet being Clyde 2.0, I really doubt it. Summer Glau is 28 and it's most likely that the approximate age Bennet is. Clyde 2.0 was created in 1993 meaning Bennet would be about 12. I really doubt they would imprint a 12 year old, although it's possible that 2.0 was imprinted on her several years later. Clyde 1.0 mentioned that 2.0 had probably been through more than one body by now. But it's true that Bennett can't be a doll, or Topher's doll stun-gun would have taken her out.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Dec 19, 2009 0:01:53 GMT -5
As for the ending... I was a little shocked. Adelle gave Rossum Topher's plans for the remote-imprinting-machine-thing, so I really thought thats where her character was going. I guess that was kind of the point, for it to be surprising. But why give Harding Topher's plans? That wasn't an act. Was the constantly getting shit faced an act? Great ending though. Gets me excited for the last episodes. Really excited. Yeah, that's a problem with the reveal, hopefully it'll be explained. I'm thinking she gave them Topher's plans to make Rossum trust her and wouldn't see her coming. Plus, she needed contol of the Dollhouse back. As for the drinking, could've been an act, but it must have been stressful lying to everybody, acting like a heartless bitch. Maybe even guilt for giving Rossum the plans.
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Post by wenxina on Dec 19, 2009 0:11:44 GMT -5
I think that it can be interpreted that Adelle finally made up her mind during/after her refreshing shower. There's no reason to act like a drunk to the point of drooling all over one's self. Echo challenged her early on in the "Stop/Loss", as did Boyd later on. She may have seemed like a bitch right after the shower, since she ordered Echo to be sent to the Attic, but her plan was revealed in the end. She's now decided to take down Rossum. If the future glimpsed in "Epitaph One" comes to pass, then Topher apparently goes mad with guilt, and Adelle feels very responsible for Topher. The fact that Adelle may have expedited the entire apocalypse may be the reason for her maternal nature towards Topher.
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