Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Aug 19, 2010 16:34:17 GMT -5
Poor Dez, I was never a fan of hers like I am James but hey, characters die. :/
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Post by VampSlayer on Aug 19, 2010 16:43:33 GMT -5
Anne back is pretty cool. I love how she's been a big discussion in the 'Characters that Should Come Back' thread, and here she is! I smell a new Team Angel member. (I kid, I kid. xD)
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nickclark89
Common Vampire
Watching....[Mo0:0]
Posts: 62
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Post by nickclark89 on Aug 19, 2010 17:03:30 GMT -5
Oh God, who cares about Spike, he's in like 10 books a month. Dez died this issue, get some perspective people! Tongue-in-cheek comments aside, I'm actually not very impressed with how Aftermath has been completely washed away. Okay, so it wasn't a very popular story (although all the venomous hate for it was a tad overdramatic IMO) but guess what, IDW, you published it and you should have more respect for your own work. Poor Kelly Armstrong, who came in and did her best to introduce and flesh out new characters to the Angel mythology, only to have them lazily retconned and killed off immediately after. Someone on Whedonesque described IDW's handling of Angel as "wishy washy", and it's totally true. Since the end of AtF, they've floundered embarassingly, unable to commit to any kind of longterm direction. They're just publishing the first crap they can think of, then retconning it when the fans hate it. Dez was a decent character, and Armstrong did a good job of establishing her backstory and personality. If you want to kill her off, fine, but do it in a way that's respectful to the character. How about you have her go into a feral rage to protect Connor, and find herself unable to turn human again (as foreshadowed in Aftermath). That way, her human self is "dead" in a genuinely tragic and heroic way? It's a sad state of affairs when Illyria of all people comes out and says "Hey guys, shouldn't we be mildly upset that a member of our family is dead on the floor? Guys?" I defended Dez and James for so long, insisting that they had potential, but why bother when IDW obviously have no investment in their own creations. The rest of the issue was pretty bad as well, although for some reason I find it too fascinating to stop reading. It was nice seeing Anne again finally, although her dialogue was horrible and stilted. James continues to interest me as a villain, although the whole Potentate-retcon is unclear and lazy. I totally agree with you, i haven't read the issue yet, but i'm very upset and dissapointed cause they didn't something interesting with Dez, they simply erased her Guys, she's a warrior mayan jaguar with a tragic story, that's really cool
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on Aug 19, 2010 21:51:48 GMT -5
No, not really. I had never been interested in Dez whatsoever, so in a way, I'm glad that she's gone
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BlueJay
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Resident Charmed Fan[Mo0:12]
Posts: 631
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Post by BlueJay on Aug 19, 2010 21:54:20 GMT -5
I completely agree with Paul and NickClark.
While Dez herself wasn't that interesting so far, she had potential of being a likable character. I was very intrigued in her backstory and I wondered what became of her sister Penelope. By the end of Aftermath, Dez was losing her ability to stay in human form. During Willingham's run she's able to go all Animorph without any issue. I hated the way she died too. The only one who even acknowledged Dez's death was Illyria. Everyone else was fretting over Laura's pet rock. Seriously?
As for James, I definitely didn't care for the potentate storyline. I cannot picture winged angels roaming around protecting people in the Buffyverse. While I like the retcon, I kinda don't like the execution of it. This is makes me wonder about the people who represented The Powers in Aftermath. Were they real? Was Cordelia real? I pretty much believe that in that entire story, James was undercover the entire time, working for the real deal. I doubt that there will ever be any mention of Aftermath ever again once James is killed off.
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Aug 20, 2010 10:48:31 GMT -5
No, not really. I had never been interested in Dez whatsoever, so in a way, I'm glad that she's gone Whether you like the character or not, doesn't good storytelling require that she be handled with some respect? I don't really like Eddie Hope, but I'd rather see his story arc come to a meaningful conclusion, than be aborted and forgotten. I hate when writers spend time introducing a new character, and then another writer comes along and just kills them to make room for their own. It happens in comics all the time and just makes readers cynical towards new characters.
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Aug 20, 2010 23:41:48 GMT -5
I hope we get some answers in the new 'Angel' over at DH. about Dez, some characters just don't get a meaningful conclusion all the time.. Makes her death a bit more real...She still had so much more to give.
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BlueJay
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Resident Charmed Fan[Mo0:12]
Posts: 631
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Post by BlueJay on Aug 21, 2010 0:35:26 GMT -5
Well I'm hoping that #37 at least gives her a proper send off.
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Aug 21, 2010 16:41:31 GMT -5
Well I'm hoping that #37 at least gives her a proper send off. maybe they'll have a moment where the stand solemnly in her memory. I could picture that.
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raith
Innocent Bystander
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Posts: 22
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Post by raith on Aug 23, 2010 14:15:03 GMT -5
I liked this issue a lot. Ever since issue #32, everything has been progressively better. So glad that Anne is back. I've always felt she could be a vital member of Angel's team. Maybe she'll tell Angel how a certain somebody helped her get on her feet, hehe. I agree with some of you here regarding Dez. Personally, I liked the character but IDW could've at least given her a heroic death-hated character or not. I sincerely hope Laura will not suffer the same fate.
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Post by angeliclestat on Aug 24, 2010 6:18:41 GMT -5
I liked Dez as well - but sometimes people just die. Not everyone gets a heroic death. It was very sudden and shocking.
There are 2 more issues in this arc right?
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 24, 2010 8:57:10 GMT -5
Yeah, the arc ends with issue 38.
I'm glad a lot of Aftermath has been retconned. I feel like the story is better for it. For one, making James a villain was a great idea. I didn't like the Potentate storyline at all in Aftermath, and now I can at least read the issues and enjoy them a bit more.
That's something at least. As for Dez, we were promised deaths, so she'd be first on my list to go.
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Post by angeliclestat on Aug 31, 2010 6:04:16 GMT -5
Yeah, the arc ends with issue 38. I'm glad a lot of Aftermath has been retconned. I feel like the story is better for it. For one, making James a villain was a great idea. I didn't like the Potentate storyline at all in Aftermath, and now I can at least read the issues and enjoy them a bit more. That's something at least. As for Dez, we were promised deaths, so she'd be first on my list to go. Good - I knew things couldn't be wrapped up in 1 issue. Ya I am glad that a lot of the mistakes of Aftermath have been fixed. I think next issue will see some more explanation as to all the funky stuff going on. I did quite like Dez...but cannot say that I am very sad she is gone. I dont understand why she was kept in the story when Willingham took over-at least James has been given an interesting storyline, but Dez did seem to be just....there.
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Aug 31, 2010 19:51:40 GMT -5
Yeah, the arc ends with issue 38. I'm glad a lot of Aftermath has been retconned. I feel like the story is better for it. For one, making James a villain was a great idea. I didn't like the Potentate storyline at all in Aftermath, and now I can at least read the issues and enjoy them a bit more. That's something at least. As for Dez, we were promised deaths, so she'd be first on my list to go. What exactly didn't you like about the Potentate story? I've heard so much hate towards Aftermath but it's never that specific. I agree that the art was cheap and nasty, but the story (although nothing special) was pretty inoffensive to me. I've heard people complaining about actual angels existing in the Buffyverse, but in a world with demons, faries, trolls, dragons, etc, I don't see the big deal. I actually quite liked the idea of the Potentates being vicious, single-minded warriors for the Powers That Be; it was interesting how their kill-anything-remotely-evil stance was at odds with Angel's morally grey world. I especially liked the parallels between the Potentates vicitms (who were destined to commit evil in the future) and Angel himself (the Shanshu prophecy). The Potentates were a good foil for Angel and his beliefs, and were therefore an interesting and valid addition to the Buffyverse. Making James a villian isn't a bad idea in and of itself, but Willingham made NO effort whatsoever to reconcile it with what we saw in Aftermath. So it was a terrible, unconvincing retcon. Is James a Potentate or not? If not, why do the other Potentates recognise him? Do the Potentates exist at all? And why the hell does James have to construct such an elaborate plot just to observe Earth? Why does he need to infiltrate Angel Investigations? His plan to turn the Earth into a demon breeding farm is dull and one-dimensional. As Emmie asked earlier (possibly in another thread, I forget), where is the moral dilemma? How does this relate to Angel on a personal level? Why does it not make ANY sense? Sorry, but "Myresto Mor" is a shite direction for James and I'm personally looking forward to him being killed off so I can forget about him. Which is a shame, because I liked the character before Willingham got his grubby mitts on him. A better way to retcon the Potentates (if such a retcon is really needed, which I don't think it is) would be if James was actually a spy for the Senior Partners, who had constructed the entire Potentate scenario in Aftermath to earn Angel's trust. This could play into IDW's final arc in some big way, with the SP using information gained by James against the team. Instead, we have some half-baked pish about demon farming and Soul Eaters. And again, killing Dez isn't a bad idea at all. This is the Buffyverse, shit happens. But the way it was done was lazy and disrespectful. Aftermath >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Willingham's run. At least Kelley Armstrong tried her best, and respected what had come before. And her story made some amount of sense.
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on Sept 1, 2010 4:46:39 GMT -5
A better way to retcon the Potentates (if such a retcon is really needed, which I don't think it is) would be if James was actually a spy for the Senior Partners, who had constructed the entire Potentate scenario in Aftermath to earn Angel's trust. This could play into IDW's final arc in some big way, with the SP using information gained by James against the team. Instead, we have some half-baked pish about demon farming and Soul Eaters. Now that actually sounds like a really good idea for an Angel story. Is there anyone who knows how to write the Angelverse at all? Apart from Brian Lynch and a few select others? And as for Armstrong's story, I have never found any sense in it. Got no idea what the storyline was about at all
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Sept 1, 2010 23:28:13 GMT -5
there really are alot of loose ends that need to be tied up and with 8 issues left they do have the power to do it. It all comes down to whether or not they will. This is their last stab at Angel, I hope they make it count.
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