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Post by wenxina on Jun 8, 2008 12:56:33 GMT -5
I just thought of a question, when Willow took hold of Kumiko's head and said "Talk to me" what was she trying to do? She had a vision, but I don't think that's what she intended to do. Any ideas? By the way, I loved the banter between Willow and Kumiko in that fight. A classic Buffy fight scene. Or it was exactly what she wanted to do, read Kumiko to better understand her capabilities. Except she got that unexpected revelation featuring Saga Vasuki, and swooned instead.
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Aloha Joe
Potential Slayer
Mostly Harmless
Now Available in Minty Pineapple![Mo0:25]
Posts: 179
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Post by Aloha Joe on Jun 8, 2008 15:21:08 GMT -5
My issue was missing the middle!
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Jun 8, 2008 17:32:58 GMT -5
My issue was missing the middle! Oh man! That sucks!!! What are you gunna do? Go out and buy another or return it?
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Aloha Joe
Potential Slayer
Mostly Harmless
Now Available in Minty Pineapple![Mo0:25]
Posts: 179
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Post by Aloha Joe on Jun 8, 2008 19:36:48 GMT -5
I contacted TFAW and asked if I could get a replacement. In the meantime... I read the issue through other means... and boy did I miss a lot. Holy Mecha Dawn, Batman!
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Iceeh★
Bad Ass Wicca
Also, Angels.
Somewhere, along in the bitterness.[Mo0:7]
Posts: 2,298
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Post by Iceeh★ on Jun 8, 2008 19:41:38 GMT -5
I contacted TFAW and asked if I could get a replacement. In the meantime... I read the issue through other means... and boy did I miss a lot. Holy Mecha Dawn, Batman! "I cry a lot!"
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Jun 8, 2008 20:55:41 GMT -5
Was I the only one that was sort of annoyed with the third to last panel (Buffy/Satsu?)
I don't like them together....nor do I want to see them together. Satsu is boring...doesn't matter if she is a girl.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jun 9, 2008 1:07:41 GMT -5
On a more serious note, just take it for the kicks... WatG has been a lukewarm arc for me... and since it started out campy, there probably wasn't any other way to go. My biggest problem with the arc in general is that aside from some big revelations, the general feel of it has been filler... But you could describe some of the best standalones in the entire series as "filler", if you want to apply that term to any episodes where very little of long-term importance happens: "I Only Have Eyes For You", "Band Candy", "Earshot", "Hush", "Fool for Love", "Triangle", "Normal Again", "Selfless", "Storyteller", and probably a few others I'm not thinking of. Personally, I loved this arc, and think it's going to be hard for anything that happens the rest of the season to top it in my eyes. I think I said this already, but if you consider the entire 4-issue story the equivalent of one episode, then it probably cracks my all-time favorite Top 10 list...
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
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Post by dane5by5 on Jun 9, 2008 2:54:43 GMT -5
Was I the only one that was sort of annoyed with the third to last panel (Buffy/Satsu?) I don't like them together....nor do I want to see them together. Satsu is boring...doesn't matter if she is a girl. I actually liked them together, for the brief time they were. It seems unfair to say Satsu is "boring" as she's only featured in what, 9 comic issues? I loved that last page. The narration by Dracula and the montage of Buffy and Satsu, Willow summoning Saga Vasuki and Xander pouring Renee's ashes into the wind. That would have been a beautiful and very moving scene if it had been on television. It was very powerful even though it wasn't.
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
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Post by dane5by5 on Jun 9, 2008 2:58:24 GMT -5
On a more serious note, just take it for the kicks... WatG has been a lukewarm arc for me... and since it started out campy, there probably wasn't any other way to go. My biggest problem with the arc in general is that aside from some big revelations, the general feel of it has been filler... But you could describe some of the best standalones in the entire series as "filler", if you want to apply that term to any episodes where very little of long-term importance happens: "I Only Have Eyes For You", "Band Candy", "Earshot", "Hush", "Fool for Love", "Triangle", "Normal Again", "Selfless", "Storyteller", and probably a few others I'm not thinking of. Personally, I loved this arc, and think it's going to be hard for anything that happens the rest of the season to top it in my eyes. I think I said this already, but if you consider the entire 4-issue story the equivalent of one episode, then it probably cracks my all-time favorite Top 10 list... I also thought this was an amazing arc. I feel like each arc is equivalent to a two part episode, like Becoming Part One & Two. Had this been an episode, it would most definitely be in my top ten also.
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Post by Emmie on Jun 9, 2008 5:54:26 GMT -5
Was I the only one that was sort of annoyed with the third to last panel (Buffy/Satsu?) I don't like them together....nor do I want to see them together. Satsu is boring...doesn't matter if she is a girl. Lol that's how I feel too. I find Satsu too boring for our girl. But I'm glad Buffy's having a little fun - she did miss the sex, great muppety Odin. I actually liked them together, for the brief time they were. It seems unfair to say Satsu is "boring" as she's only featured in what, 9 comic issues? I tried to give Satsu a little more credit. But really, Aiko captured my heart in less than a third of one issue. And Dracula in issue 15 restored his cool factor, something that has been lacking from Buffy vs Dracula through issue 14 imo. If these characters can be developed in such a short span of time, why do I find Satsu's development so lukewarm?
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Jun 9, 2008 9:04:34 GMT -5
I tried to give Satsu a little more credit. But really, Aiko captured my heart in less than a third of one issue. And Dracula in issue 15 restored his cool factor, something that has been lacking from Buffy vs Dracula through issue 14 imo. If these characters can be developed in such a short span of time, why do I find Satsu's development so lukewarm? You took the words RIGHT out of my mouth. The only thing I really know about Satsu is that she is iunsecure. Maybe they will do a standalone focusing on her in Tokyo and how she is handling not being around Buffy. Sort of the like The Chain but with a character we--somewhat---know.
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Slayer489
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Why do I feel like this? Why do I let Spike do those things to me?" - Buffy 'Dead Things'[Mo0:0]
Posts: 784
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Post by Slayer489 on Jun 9, 2008 11:00:18 GMT -5
I tried to give Satsu a little more credit. But really, Aiko captured my heart in less than a third of one issue. And Dracula in issue 15 restored his cool factor, something that has been lacking from Buffy vs Dracula through issue 14 imo. If these characters can be developed in such a short span of time, why do I find Satsu's development so lukewarm? You took the words RIGHT out of my mouth. The only thing I really know about Satsu is that she is iunsecure. Maybe they will do a standalone focusing on her in Tokyo and how she is handling not being around Buffy. Sort of the like The Chain but with a character we--somewhat---know. I'd like that. Because I feel the same way as you two do. We need more Satsu development.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jun 9, 2008 12:35:23 GMT -5
I tried to give Satsu a little more credit. But really, Aiko captured my heart in less than a third of one issue. And Dracula in issue 15 restored his cool factor, something that has been lacking from Buffy vs Dracula through issue 14 imo. If these characters can be developed in such a short span of time, why do I find Satsu's development so lukewarm? You took the words RIGHT out of my mouth. The only thing I really know about Satsu is that she is iunsecure. I think you're both really selling her short, and I think that we actually managed to learn a fairly decent amount about her in a comparatively short period of time (as was pointed out, she was only in 9 issues, and really only had what you'd consider a "starring role" in 1--#11). Her backstory is still a mystery, but her personality? Let's see: - She's a great slayer, the best in Buffy's entire Scotland operation. - She has a wry sense of humor ("You were saying everyone who loves you gets hurt--should I look out for that, then?"; "You have no idea/I can't believe I just said that out loud".) - She has the courage to stand up for herself, even against Buffy, when she feels she's being treated unfairly. - She has the self-awareness to realize that the situation she was in wasn't good for her or Buffy, and the strength of character to remove herself from that situation for the good of both of them, even tho probably a large part of her is screaming at her to stay, and see if there's any way possible to make it work with Buffy. If you didn't like her, didn't think we found out much about her, then I'm afraid you might end up feeling the same way about any new characters introduced in the comics, because they're never going to be as deep and fully-realized as the characters from the shows ( Emmie, did Aiko capture your heart because she was such a great character, or because she had a tragic fate?). They have much less time to be developed, and they don't have a living, breathing actor who can bring them to life and give them personality. Still, in the limited time they got, I ended up liking Satsu and Renee FAR better than any of the potentials from S7...
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Post by Emmie on Jun 9, 2008 12:46:13 GMT -5
You took the words RIGHT out of my mouth. The only thing I really know about Satsu is that she is iunsecure. I think you're both really selling her short, and I think that we actually managed to learn a fairly decent amount about her in a comparatively short period of time (as was pointed out, she was only in 9 issues, and really only had what you'd consider a "starring role" in 1--#11). Her backstory is still a mystery, but her personality? Let's see: - She's a great slayer, the best in Buffy's entire Scotland operation. - She has a wry sense of humor ("You were saying everyone who loves you gets hurt--should I look out for that, then?"; "You have no idea/I can't believe I just said that out loud".) - She has the courage to stand up for herself, even against Buffy, when she feels she's being treated unfairly. - She has the self-awareness to realize that the situation she was in wasn't good for her or Buffy, and the strength of character to remove herself from that situation for the good of both of them, even tho probably a large part of her is screaming at her to stay, and see if there's any way possible to make it work with Buffy. If you didn't like her, didn't think we found out much about her, then I'm afraid you might end up feeling the same way about any new characters introduced in the comics, because they're never going to be as deep and fully-realized as the characters from the shows ( Emmie, did Aiko capture your heart because she was such a great character, or because she had a tragic fate?). They have much less time to be developed, and they don't have a living, breathing actor who can bring them to life and give them personality. Still, in the limited time they got, I ended up liking Satsu and Renee FAR better than any of the potentials from S7... I liked Aiko starting from that panel when she was standing with the Kabuki demons. And to counter the argument that comic characters can't be developed deeply or that I'd be dissatisfied, I love Fray very much. And I was starting to like Renee at the beginning of the WatG arc. I still believe that Satsu is weak sauce when it comes to characterizing her. The most action we see from her is always as an attachment to Buffy on the battlefield in LWH or in the bedroom. For instance, we know Satsu is the best because Buffy says she's the best. That's not as endearing as being shown her talent in action or by comparison to other slayers. It makes her feel a bit like the teacher's pet to me.
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Post by wenxina on Jun 9, 2008 13:04:15 GMT -5
On a more serious note, just take it for the kicks... WatG has been a lukewarm arc for me... and since it started out campy, there probably wasn't any other way to go. My biggest problem with the arc in general is that aside from some big revelations, the general feel of it has been filler... But you could describe some of the best standalones in the entire series as "filler", if you want to apply that term to any episodes where very little of long-term importance happens: "I Only Have Eyes For You", "Band Candy", "Earshot", "Hush", "Fool for Love", "Triangle", "Normal Again", "Selfless", "Storyteller", and probably a few others I'm not thinking of. Personally, I loved this arc, and think it's going to be hard for anything that happens the rest of the season to top it in my eyes. I think I said this already, but if you consider the entire 4-issue story the equivalent of one episode, then it probably cracks my all-time favorite Top 10 list... Hey, I take filler with the meat... it's a buy one get the other type deal with me. Some of the episodes you're quoting up there are definitely ones that I'd pick for a fave list. On the other hand, I disagree that some of the listed episodes are actually "filler". Although they probably don't progress the external storyline much, they're huge internal structure narratives, and so I wouldn't consider them filler per se. The thing about WatG with me is that it was rather uneven... it started out weak (to me), got stronger in the middle, had a stellar third act, but the end was somewhat flabby again. I liked in fine; just reread the whole arc last night, but it doesn't rank in my faves list.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jun 9, 2008 13:18:09 GMT -5
I liked Aiko starting from that panel when she was standing with the Kabuki demons. And to counter the argument that comic characters can't be developed deeply or that I'd be dissatisfied, I love Fray very much. And I was starting to like Renee at the beginning of the WatG arc. I still believe that Satsu is weak sauce when it comes to characterizing her. The most action we see from her is always as an attachment to Buffy on the battlefield in LWH or in the bedroom. For instance, we know Satsu is the best because Buffy says she's the best. That's not as endearing as being shown her talent in action or by comparison to other slayers. It makes her feel a bit like the teacher's pet to me. Mel was the main character in a story where all the characters were brand-new. I'm talking more about S8 specifically, where you're going to have new characters introduced who'll only ever be drawings on a page with word bubbles over their heads, interacting with characters who we saw played by actors we love for 7 years and 144 episodes. There's no way the new comic characters are going to measure up in that comparison. None, zero. If people didn't like Satsu, just wait and see what happens if they ever try to introduce a new guy for Buffy, and watch people's heads explode as they scream about how he boring he is, how he doesn't even come close to matching up against Angel or Spike, that he even makes Riley look interesting, blah, blah, blah... I liked Aiko, too, for the same reason as you. But she got an introductory panel that showed her as a total badass, then a tragic death where the thing that made her such a badass was taken away just beforehand... and that's pretty much it. I think if you ran a poll right now of "Which new slayer did you like best?", Renee might very well win, and why? Because she was an Aiko-esque badass? No, because the only two times we ever saw her in battle, she was getting stabbed (Scottish zombie, Toru). She won me over with the Xander/Dracula scenes in 8.13, but I think the reason she'd win a poll against Satsu is that she... well, died. Like Aiko. And it was a heartbreaking death, at that... like Aiko. Which just makes me believe that people are dissing Satsu because she's A) standing in the way, even temporarily, of Buffy being with Angel, Spike, or Xander; and B) because she didn't get a similarly-heartbreaking death that would capture the audience's hearts (while at the same time removing her--conclusively and decisively--from ever returning and possibly threatening their favored 'ship again)...
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Jun 9, 2008 13:24:21 GMT -5
- She has a wry sense of humor ("You were saying everyone who loves you gets hurt--should I look out for that, then?"; "You have no idea/I can't believe I just said that out loud".) Oh right! I totally forgot that Satsu did make me laugh when she said "I can't believe I just said that out loud." Very funny. But still, maybe I don't like them together because most of her funny snappy dialogue came AFTER they slept together (at least for me anyway) and that just made me hold a little grudge against her.
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Post by Emmie on Jun 9, 2008 13:26:42 GMT -5
My main complaint is that for Satsu being a significant other to Buffy, irregardless of how long it lasts, I feel like I don't know her character all that well. Her most defining moment for me was when she told off Buffy in 14 about her being benched.
And of course Fray was a main character that had time to be developed. But Satsu has had 9 issues and I still feel like she's a shadow to Buffy. If someone is going to have an important role or be important to Buffy, the central character, than I'd like for them to be developed in individual action. Too much of Satsu's action was about following Buffy. I've gained respect for Satsu's character after issue 14 but I'm still lukewarm on whether I like her all that much.
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Smashed
Junior Vampire Slayer
[Mo0:3]
Posts: 908
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Post by Smashed on Jun 9, 2008 13:27:13 GMT -5
"Oh God, I never got to tell him".....-Renee Paraphrasing. But, what did she never get to tell Xander?
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jun 9, 2008 13:52:20 GMT -5
My main complaint is that for Satsu being a significant other to Buffy, irregardless of how long it lasts, I feel like I don't know her character all that well. Her most defining moment for me was when she told off Buffy in 14 about her being benched. Okay, granted. Yes, we discovered more about her personality than I think people are giving her credit for, but still not nearly as much about her as I would've liked. But I think that was the point--that they jumped into it without knowing each other that well, and then had to deal with the aftermath. That's not a storyline everyone's gonna like, obviously, but it is something that happens in real-life. Like I said in another thread, Buffy deserves to be able to have a brief fling every now and then, too, and doesn't always have to be either alone or in a serious relationship. Do you feel the same way about Renee, in terms of being a potential significant other to Xander? Because I think you could make the same complaints about her: that nearly everything we ever saw from her revolved around how she felt about Xander. Obviously, the one major difference is that, unlike Buffy and Satsu, Xander and Renee never slept together. But if her death is going to be the catalyst that leads Xander down a dark path the rest of the season, did we learn enough about Renee to care, or to really sympathize with him, the way we did with Willow at the end of S6, for example? I'm not sure we did... smashed, I think that was supposed to mean that she never got the chance to tell him she loved him.
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