Q: Whedon's recycling of actors

[whedongeek]

HI. For a possible essay, I'd like to hear about your responses to Whedon's use of certain actors repeatedly. JossBtVS as well as whedonesque.com promotes the work of actors from the Whedonverse, encouraging people to see, for instance, Superman: Doomsday because it has Marsters and Baldwin in it. Do you think your readings of the "product" (whether it be cartoon or film or television) change based upon your enthusiasm for a particular actor? For instance, it took me several episodes of Firefly to get over the gut reaction to Nathan Fillion of: that's Caleb! He's evil! (Yes, I watched Firefly after it went off the air.) When I saw Zoe (on F), I connected her with Jasmine (from Angel). And so on. What does making these connections do for your viewing experience? Thanks. Private responses to [e-mail] would be great. Alyson

[buffysmglover]

I've only ever been a little distracted with the recycling of an actor once. The vamp in one ep of BtVS who then became Knox. I have no trouble at all watching Firefly because of Nathan, and I JUST started watching it last week.

[commandercool]

I watched Firefly before I got to those episodes (I watched Buffy, Angel, and Firefly this summer on DVD) and while it was really distracting to see Nathan Fillion with a southern accent gouging out Xander's eye, it was also really cool.

[whedongeek]

Could I ask what you mean by "really cool"? And distracting how? (darn academics, always asking you to say more!) I think this could be a really fun conversation....

[whedongeek]

buffysmglover: Why did you get distracted by Knox/Holden (and he's also in Firefly)? I think his identity became clear to me because he got unusually long screen time for a one episode vamp. Enjoyable screen time. Okay, he's hot. Plus I liked the whole psychoanalysis script device. Care to share? Why don't you lay down on that nice coffin over there.... Oh, wait, that's HOLDEN....

[henzINNIT]

Well for me, with the Firefly cast playing villains on BUffy/Angel, it was just fun to see them again. The played their parts well so it wasn't at all distracting for me.
I agree that Holden and Knox were a little more distracting. It's a little more noticable because they're in the same universe, and also because they had the poor guy playing essentially the same character over and over. He does it well, but it's still off-putting.

[CowboyGuy]

Personally I think Whedon is just doing a good service to his actors. he has faith in these people...they are very talented and I think he enjoys showcasing them as much as he can.

But as a viewer I did notice that we first saw Tom Lenk as a vampire, then he later played Andrew. It's kinda annoying, when you notice it.

[commandercool]

whedongeek said:

Could I ask what you mean by "really cool"? And distracting how? (darn academics, always asking you to say more!) I think this could be a really fun conversation....

By "really distracting" and "really cool" I mean that I like most of the actors Joss Whedon uses a lot, and most of them aren't in much, so I love to see them outside of the shows they originated in because they do good work. However, I am constantly reminded of their characters from other shows. Nathan Fillion and Gina Torres don't look that much different in Buffy or Angel than they do in Firefly. Their characters are very different, but they still remind me of Mal and Zoe just because of the visual similarities, which can be distracting.

[ladyparasyte]

Didn't he also reuse the actorthat played demon Ken from "Anne" later in "Angel" as the fiancee of Doyle's ex-wife who needs to eat the brains of Doyle before the marriage?

For some reason when I realized that Tom Lenk played a vamp in the earlier Buffy episode. I didn't like him as anyone other than Andrew.
I really enjoyed Nathon Fillon as well as Knox/Holden.

[Jsebold87]

It never really bugged me.

Also don't forget about Adam Baldwin's double appearance. As Hamilton on Angel and Jayne on Firefly.

[commandercool]

I didn't know he was on Angel. What's Hamilton? I'm just now watching Angel season 5 on TNT since I can't seem to find the DVDs anywhere short of buying them, and I wouldn't have even noticed Knox if you peopel hadn't pointed it out. The actor isn't that distinctive looking.

[pesk]

Buffy and angel reuse actors all the time, but its not usually noticable, because one or more of the characters are in costume & make up. For example, the werewolf hunter from season 2 of buffy later played sarjon in many eps of angel, but it wasn't noticable because they looked so different. I'm not sure but I think cyrus, the vampire played by tom lenk, was always in vamp face, so its not like he was identacle in appearance to andrew.

Jonathan M. Woodward (holden the vamp, knox) on the other hand played 2 human characters with very similar personallities/mannerisms within a very short space of time from each other. It was very noticable and annoying.

[buffysmglover]

whedongeek said:

buffysmglover: Why did you get distracted by Knox/Holden (and he's also in Firefly)? I think his identity became clear to me because he got unusually long screen time for a one episode vamp. Enjoyable screen time. Okay, he's hot. Plus I liked the whole psychoanalysis script device. Care to share? Why don't you lay down on that nice coffin over there.... Oh, wait, that's HOLDEN....

I'd watched that ep a million times before I got to Season Five of Angel. The first time through watching him as Knox left me always calling him Holden. Now I haven't seen that ep in forever.

And I'm only on the 4th ep of Firefly, so havent seen him yet. I have too much school work right now.

[whedongeek]

I'm enjoying the thread! Is it "annoying" and "distracting" because it pulls one out of the so-called 'suspension of disbelief' necessary to enjoying fiction, esp. fantasy fiction? i.e. it reminds one that these are actors rather than the characters they play? BTW, I hadn't realized the Tom Lenk one, either. So we've got:
Jasmine/Zoe -- Gina Torres
Holden/Knox/Tracey -- Jonathan Woodward
Caleb/Mal -- Nathan Fillion
Hamilton/Jayne -- Adam Baldwin
Cyrus (vamp Lenk)/Andrew -- Tom Lenk
Kane (werewolf hunter)/Sahjhan -- Jack Conley
Ken/Alliance agent Dobson/Richard Straley -- Carlos Jacott
Are there more? I think CowboyGuy is right, too -- I think Whedon tries to reuse actors who have worked well for him. The idea that makeup and character matters is an important one, too: we notice the recycling when they are most similar to the other characters they played, which suggests some typage or typecasting. Hmm....

[commandercool]

I never noticed that the werewolf hunter guy and Sahjhan were the same guy, but it seems pretty obvious now. I haven't seen season 3 (the werewolf hunter was in season 3, right?) of Buffy in a long time.

[pesk]

The werewolf hunter was in season 2, Phases.

There are loads more actors playing multiple roles, in particular Camden Toy, who played a gentleman, Gnarl, the ubervamp, and on angel the prince of lies.

Then there's brian thompson who played luke the vamp in the first 2 eps, and the judge in season 2.

And jeff kober who played rack the wizard in s6, as well as that vamp from helpless.

And persia white who played the girl who found the dead body in the locker in the first episode of buffy... and a friend of lornes on angel who he talked to about going back to pylea.

And jeff ricketts who was a watcher on buffy and angel sent to retrieve faith... as well as the 4 legged sewer demon in late season 4 of angel.

And leland crooke who was buffy's professor for one episode before moving to angel to play archduke sebassis in season 5.

And buffy/angel writer/producer david fury, who has apeared on the buffy episodes 'once more with feeling', 'selfless', and the angel eps 'reprise', 'the house always wins' and 'smile time'.

And michelle trachtenberg who was an extra in restless (in line for an ice cream) before being hired to play dawn in the very next episode.

And thats just the buffy and angel ones I know of, If I watched firefly Maybe I could name some more.

[whedongeek]

Great list, pesk! Good eye! I would think that the bit parts aren't as distracting, though, as the more major characters. We again hit the notion of makeup as providing another means to concealment of the actors. Did you pay attention to the playlist, for instance, read about the reuse of these actors, or notice them yourself? For instance, I couldn't have told you who played Gnarl upon looking at him -- actually, I tried to avoid looking at him ("I meet your blech and raise you a guhuhuh" _Bad Eggs_).

[pesk]

The only ones I noticed while watching were knox/holden, cyrus/andrew and luke/judge. The rest I had discovered over the years from magazine interviews or through the internet.

I should point out that david fury has always appeared as a human, but aside from his appearance in smile time he has always had a very minor cameo in the episodes he was in.

[JBrow]

ladyparasyte said:

Didn't he also reuse the actorthat played demon Ken from "Anne" later in "Angel" as the fiancee of Doyle's ex-wife who needs to eat the brains of Doyle before the marriage?

This is the only time the actor recycling seemed off to me. Normally it doesn't even phase me because it's on another show that sets in a different time, etc (like firefly) OR it's a human/demon situation. But here you have the same actor playing two completely different characters (both demons) within the same show basically AND living in the same city. Would have been different if he'd been on Buffy in Sunnydale and then Angel in LA, but both characters were in LA.

Otherwise though I think it has a very classic feel to it. A lot of great directors/writers/etc use the same people for different projects.

[taraswizard]

ANd the Whedonverse hat trick goes to Andy Umberger, played D'Hoffryn in BtVS, an Alliance star cruiser captian in Firefly episode Serenity, and a character Dr. Metzler in AtS, first season I Fall to Pieces.