Does Illyria have romantic feelings for Wesley?

[balesthebloody]

I feel that this is a tough thing to answer at this point in the story. At times I feel like "it" has grown close to him and not just because Fred is inside of "it". Fred and Illyria are two different beings, or so it seems at this point. So if Fred was pulled away would Illyria still feel these feelings? I think that "it" just might. If "it" didn't care about Wesley then why take his body? I mean seeing Wes will only make Fred stronger, leaving Illyria weaker and I am sure that is not what Illyria wants.

So I ask you friends, what do you think? Let the debates begin!

[kaleidoscope]

My feeling is that Illyria is in love with Wes, but I don't think that Wes would ever reciprocate her feelings. He loves Fred. It's a tragic love triangle - even more so when you consider that Fred and Illyria appear to be sharing the same body. Throw in that Wes is incorporeal, only in a sort of existance because of his Wolfram and Hart contract and you have a recipe for alot of heartbreak for them all.

[Joe]

Illyria I think has grown feelings for Wesley, but I don't think she will ever be able to love him unless part of Fred infects Illyria..

[henzINNIT]

You can tell by the end of season 5 Illyria has affection for Wesley. It's an interesting idea, cause you can't be sure it's not some unseen Fred influence on her in the first place.

[VampSlayer]

In Not Fade Away, I had the same idea. Because she holding Wesley and said I will always love you, I was not sure if Illyria was pretending there or not. Im sure having Fred in her does not help either with her feelings if she has them.

[patxshand]

There are many questions about AtS/BtVS with very, very complex answers. This is not one of them. Very simply, "yes."

[Emmie]

I think Illyria does have a strong attachment to Wesley (love, whatever you want to call it). I'm not sure if I would define her feelings for Wesley as romantic. I define romantic love as a love that involves amorous or sensual feelings. The difference to me between romantic love and platonic love is the sexual element.

Illyria's sexuality seems up in the air to me. She doesn't act like a sexual being nor has she shown sexual feelings for Wesley. Maybe they are inside her but she doesn't understand them. But are they her own feelings or is it Fred's body responding to Wesley's?

There is clearly a strong attachment to Wesley, but is it based on Fred's memories and feelings that Illyria can now access or from Illyria's own experiences?

If it's Fred's past that has forged this feeling for Illyria, I'd question the authenticity of her emotions. Illyria's identity is similar to that of a vampire and that demon aspect taking over a body and commandeering it's thoughts, memories, emotions and physical reactions. I have trouble seeing Illyria's feelings for Wes seperate from Fred's.

The main reason why I doubt Illyria's "love" for Wes is based on the sum of her experiences with Wes in 7 episodes of AtS that they interacted. Let's not forget that she killed Wes in 'Time Bomb' when the time was going all wonky - that was straight up Illyria behavior. Superior and defensive. 3 episodes later (TGIQ, Power Play, then NFA) Wesley is dead for real and Illyria is "feeling grief" and cannot make it stop. I think this is the first indication of Fred's emotional re-emergence within Illyria. Now that we know Fred is still alive inside and fighting for control, I see it as originating in Fred and Illyria just hijacking the emotion and confusing as its own feelings.

Can Illyria (seperate from Fred's influence) even feel love or is he/she merely infected by Fred's humanity? Thinking of Illyria the God-king when it had its own body, I don't think love came into the equation. So I'm pointing the love finger at Fred. She's the one who loves Wesley and Illyria is tapped into this emotion and is even physically/emotionally/mentally feeling it because she's inside FRED's body, not Illyria's body but FRED's.

[Whedon Fan]

Come on did nobody buy the official Angel Magazine?! In one of the later issues after the show got canceled there was a couple pf pages deicated to what would have happened in season 6 had the show not been canceled. Here they are:

#1: Wesley would NOT have been killed.

#2: The Wesley and Illyria relationship would have been explored to its full potential.

#3: Wesley would have developed feelings for Illyria.

#4: Wesley would have had the choice as to whether or not Fred could come back to life, but at the expense of Illyria.

#5: Gunn would have survived the battle at the end of Season 5, but as a vampire, and would have been the 'big bad' for Season six.

#6: It is said that Joss was thinking about having Oz return as a guest star for season six

#7: The show would have still been set in LA but the city would have been in ruins, as a post apocalyptic world

#8: Angel would not have signed away the Shanshu Prophecy.

I think it is funny to look back at these and see just how close After The Fall actually is to season 6. First off LA never went to hell it was just going to be left in ruins...pretty cool idea and it shows that orignially Team Angel would have still lost the battle. We seem to be getting some more of the Wesley and Illyria "relationship" and I think it would have been a fantastic twist to make Wesley choose whether or not to bring back Fred as the expense of Illyria seen as he now had feelings for both. Oz coming back would have been brilliant, I'm guessing the main reason would have been to hel Nina control the Warewolf that is inside of her. Shame none of this happened on TV or in a movie but still After The Fall is as close as we are going to get to a season 6 of Angel so.....

[Emmie]

I still think that whatever Illyria is feeling is the part of her influenced by Fred. Illyria in her current form is a merging of Fred and the demon king. What if the Old One had infected another human being's body, like say Knox? I think then Illyria would have loved Fred and not Wesley. So I don't think it's Illyria that loves Wesley, but the part that Fred's controls that is influencing Illyria's emotions.

I see it relating to the demon possession of a vampire and absorbing the human host's experiences, the "same love infects us".

I love Illyria as a character, she's beyond cool. But I don't have trouble seeing that if Fred can be brought back completely, then that is the right course. Illyria had her time on Earth and died - she was finished. Instead she comes back and steals Fred's life and this proposed (AtS season 6) storyline that she would also be stealing Fred's love, Wesley. It just makes me wanna say "Get your own life Illyria, stop hijacking Fred's".

[balesthebloody]

Only time will tell at this point I guess. Maybe Fred and Illyria will become one being. Neither Fred nor Illyria but a new person. That would be something interesting to explore once the gang get out of this Hell-A, well IF they get out.

[angeliclestat]

Well apart from the fact that Illyria is really a guy.......

There has to be an element of Fred's love for Wesley still there, as how does an ancient demon GodKing know about the human emotion of love?

[Wyndam]

Jun 24, 2008 9:06:58 GMT -5 angeliclestat said:

Well apart from the fact that Illyria is really a guy.......

Was that ever stated on the show? I think that Illyria was always an "it" back when she was an actual god ruling on earth. Now that she has taken a female body and has been influences by female memories and the like, that would make "it" a she now.

[balesthebloody]

Jun 24, 2008 9:06:58 GMT -5 angeliclestat said:

Well apart from the fact that Illyria is really a guy.......

There has to be an element of Fred's love for Wesley still there, as how does an ancient demon GodKing know about the human emotion of love?

Oh course that element of Fred has had an influence on Illyria. Plus I would say that it is possible for a godking to learn to love, just like anything else. Sure it might have never been exposed to these feeling before bonding with Fredikins, so it might have learned from her and Wes. People and things can change. It just takes the right motivation.

[angeliclestat]

Jun 24, 2008 10:19:35 GMT -5 Wyndam said:

Jun 24, 2008 9:06:58 GMT -5 angeliclestat said:

Was that ever stated on the show? I.

Well Illyria was referred to as the God-King so I took it that Illyria in its original form was a male demon.

[kimtaro]

Jun 24, 2008 11:38:45 GMT -5 angeliclestat said:

Jun 24, 2008 10:19:35 GMT -5 Wyndam said:

Jun 24, 2008 9:06:58 GMT -5 angeliclestat said:

Was that ever stated on the show? I.

Well Illyria was referred to as the God-King so I took it that Illyria in its original form was a male demon.

there were female kings way back in ancient times...but I'd go with the "it" theory, since I don't think the Old Ones have genders

Also, to answer the forum question, I think Illyria's feelings for Wesley are Fred's intertwined with Illyria's experience with Wesley.

[illyria]

It would be intresting to see if Wesley grows more feelings toward Ilyria! and see if he drifts away from fred i have a feeling that they are taking it that way.

[themaleslayer]

I think Illyria does, in fact, have feelings for Wesely. But does Wesely love her back? Possibly.

[WolfRamHart420]

Jul 1, 2008 19:50:24 GMT -5 illyria said:

It would be interesting to see if Wesley grows more feelings toward Ilyria! and see if he drifts away from fred i have a feeling that they are taking it that way.

it would deff be interesting although i am not sure i want to see that happen

[buffysmglover]

I vote she has feelings for him.

[hawkedup]

Illyria was asexual back in the Old Days—I remember Joss said that in an interview a long while back. Maybe even read it in the Buffy magazine. But I think she is definitely female now. You can argue that we humans are asexual before the coin flip that is our sexes determining themselves. That's how I figure it is with her. She had no sex in human terms prior to her being implanted into Fred’s body, but she is most definitely female NOW. And she definitely has feelings for Wesley. I think Fred's memories predisposed her to having these feelings—for instance, seeking Wesley out to begin with—but they have grown beyond just being Fred's leftover emotions.

Wesley only put up with her because he had hope that he could bring Fred back. And because she looked like Fred. But I think, despite himself, Wesley really did start caring about her. I would really love if there was more of this relationship covered in the series.