El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jul 10, 2008 15:10:45 GMT -5
Well, gee, mikey, call me crazy, but when I make a post disagreeing with someone, I like to try to throw some reasoning in there to support my opinion and explain why I feel the way I do. I guess I could say, "nah uh!", or "um, no", but I thought it might be better to actually try to sound at least a little bit intelligent... Yes but it's much better to try to condense such things. My point was more about your reaction and the rant, not so much your explaining your opinion. And I was only being half-serious. So relax. ;D Guess I'm just not as even-keeled or blessed with the gift of brevity as you are...
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Post by partyking09 on Jul 10, 2008 18:40:09 GMT -5
I honestly dont think that in the variant fo issue 17 that is evil willow for the simple fact dark willow is the total opposite of regular willow,dark willow isnt the type to be someones sidekick thats just not her.Id say it was amy before id say it was dark willow!!!I just dont see dark willow being a sidekick!
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Smashed
Junior Vampire Slayer
[Mo0:3]
Posts: 908
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Post by Smashed on Jul 10, 2008 19:10:44 GMT -5
I honestly dont think that in the variant fo issue 17 that is evil willow for the simple fact dark willow is the total opposite of regular willow,dark willow isnt the type to be someones sidekick thats just not her.Id say it was amy before id say it was dark willow!!!I just dont see dark willow being a sidekick! Another vaild point. And karma for El Diablo.
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Post by phoenixfire on Jul 10, 2008 22:15:23 GMT -5
OMGOSH THE ENEMY IS WILLOW AND ALSO IN WILLOWS EYE YOU CAN SEE BUFFY'S PAIN BUT DIDNT ROBIN SAY BUFFY WAS GOIN TO BE BETRAYED FROM "ANYWHERE BUT HERE" BY A CLOSE FRIEND ??
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Post by sagewoman on Jul 10, 2008 22:45:42 GMT -5
I like the "AMY" angle - Since it is the future we are seeing before the present has been rolled out, then perhaps something happens to Amy so that she not only lasts a few hundred years, but also carries a damn big chip on her shoulder.
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vipertm
Innocent Bystander
We only see in others what we see in ourselves[Mo0:2]
Posts: 11
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Post by vipertm on Jul 10, 2008 23:04:35 GMT -5
Love the cover <3 Can't wait for this issue. Joss seems to be into time-travel lately. Anyone catch his run on Runaways? If not you guys might find it interesting to see how he handled the complexities of time-trvel logic.
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Post by wenxina on Jul 10, 2008 23:37:49 GMT -5
OMGOSH THE ENEMY IS WILLOW AND ALSO IN WILLOWS EYE YOU CAN SEE BUFFY'S PAIN BUT DIDNT ROBIN SAY BUFFY WAS GOIN TO BE BETRAYED FROM "ANYWHERE BUT HERE" BY A CLOSE FRIEND ?? It's never explicitly stated that it's a close friend that betrays Buffy. The quote reads "Betrayal. The closest, the most unexpected". At which point, I'd like to point out that Willow isn't exactly the "most unexpected". Buffy asks her point blank three panels later, "Is it you?" So much for unexpected. Also, could you possibly not type in all caps? It just reads like you're screaming. I get it, you're excited. The "OMGOSH" gave it away.
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Smashed
Junior Vampire Slayer
[Mo0:3]
Posts: 908
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Post by Smashed on Jul 10, 2008 23:59:00 GMT -5
Saying it's Willow means you have to jump to A LOT of conclusions.
Drusilla being the enemy would make more sense, and less of a fanwank.
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Jul 11, 2008 4:20:46 GMT -5
Saying it's Willow means you have to jump to A LOT of conclusions. Drusilla being the enemy would make more sense, and less of a fanwank. But really, jumping to Dru is conclusion too. Maybe it's NEITHER of them on the cover....hm?
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Slayer489
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Why do I feel like this? Why do I let Spike do those things to me?" - Buffy 'Dead Things'[Mo0:0]
Posts: 784
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Post by Slayer489 on Jul 11, 2008 7:02:30 GMT -5
I REALLY don't think the enemy is Dark Willow. It's more likely Drusilla. Vampire - can last hundreds of years. More sense.
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Smashed
Junior Vampire Slayer
[Mo0:3]
Posts: 908
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Post by Smashed on Jul 11, 2008 9:49:22 GMT -5
Saying it's Willow means you have to jump to A LOT of conclusions. Drusilla being the enemy would make more sense, and less of a fanwank. But really, jumping to Dru is conclusion too. Maybe it's NEITHER of them on the cover....hm? With Willow you have: She somehow survived hundreds of years. Betrays Buffy (which is out of character). Wants to kill Buffy. Teamed up with somebody evil. With Dru you have: Survived (which is normal for vamp) Teamed up with somebody evil. Wants to kill Buffy. Which are all in character for Drusilla, not Willow. I guess It would be less complicated and make more sense to be Drusilla.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jul 11, 2008 11:48:34 GMT -5
I had kind of a hectic day yesterday. Very busy, and then I was also carrying on a couple of private conversations thru PM's, and then there was that ("half-serious") post that took issue with how I chose to express my opinion. So there was a post I kinda glossed over and didn't really notice until late last night. After finally getting a bit of a chance to think about it this morning, I wanted to go back and respond to it, so if you'll allow me: I was completely certain it was Drusilla until today, actually. But with the 8.19 reveal of DarkWillow, there's really no reason to overspeculate our way into there being a *second* former enemy lurking in the story. It's as inexplicable as when people were theorizing that Drusilla had turned into a centaur that looked like Dawn. There's some logic to that idea. But the flaw in it is that you're assuming Dru's presence would make her a second enemy because you're pre-supposing that Willow will be back to total Darth Rosenberg, full-on evil mode, and there's just no proof of that yet. We've seen her "go brunette" twice where it didn't lead to her turning evil ("Get It Done", and issue #3), and since the time-travel element in #16 so closely mirrored that from GID, it's very reasonable to assume that Willow will have to repeat what she did the first time in order to get Buffy back this time, which is very possibly what Jo's cover is depicting here. Based on the currently-known facts, that's a much smaller leap of logic than to "overspeculate" our way to Willow becoming immortal and waiting hundreds of years just for the chance to kill Buffy and Mel. That's a theory. Not saying it's right, just saying that it's the simplest one that fits the current evidence. My original post wasn't a "rant", as one person ("half-seriously") thought, but I was frustrated by how quickly a couple of people jumped to conclusions, and then started passing them off as fact . Especially since there's been a real lack of good topics to speculate over and debate about here recently, and this was certainly one that seemed to lend itself to interesting discussion, and it was annoying to see it pronounced "case closed" so fast. king, I won't bet you a dollar, but I will bet you a karma point, if you like.
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postitnote
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Dr. Erin
Willow Rox my Sox Off!
Posts: 639
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Post by postitnote on Jul 11, 2008 12:59:58 GMT -5
I knew it! Ha! I totally called that a couple threads ago!!
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Post by Emmie on Jul 11, 2008 14:58:20 GMT -5
I haven't posted in forever regarding any speculation for season 8 recently. I think my head hurts from OSS (over speculation syndrome).
After giving the comics a break for about a week, I think I'm going to go re-read them with the intention of looking for Twilight clues and the re-emergence of Dark Willow.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jul 11, 2008 15:10:05 GMT -5
Definitely do that, Emmie. The conversation's really been dragging lately without you. Seriously, where did all the good S8 talk go? It's been so ssslllllooooowwwwww around here lately...
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Whedon Fan
Ensouled Vampire
Joss Is Boss
Banner & Avatar Made By CBG[Mo0:3][Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,312
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Post by Whedon Fan on Jul 11, 2008 15:17:07 GMT -5
I honestly dont think that in the variant fo issue 17 that is evil willow for the simple fact dark willow is the total opposite of regular willow,dark willow isnt the type to be someones sidekick thats just not her.Id say it was amy before id say it was dark willow!!!I just dont see dark willow being a sidekick! I'm not saying that it definatley is Dark Willow. I personally think she will be better suited in the TOYL arc than Drusilla but who said that Dark Willow was the sidekick maybe Harth is the sidekick, even though he is sitting on the chair in the #17 cover. Maybe there is no side kick but a evil team up.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jul 11, 2008 16:39:34 GMT -5
That cover is the shiznit.
Somehow makes S6 Willow look eeeeeven lamer.
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Lukee
Ensouled Vampire
Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
Posts: 1,137
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Post by Lukee on Jul 11, 2008 17:13:35 GMT -5
Why would Dru want to kill Buffy?? Also how do we even know that the big bad here knows that Buffy is in the future and its not just someone teaming up to take out Fray but Buffy just so happens to be there???
Dru isn't a big bad in Buffy's Past in fact they hardly ever made contact. Why would Dru care about Buffy?
Dark Willow would not team up with some one also.
Plus i don't even think it looks like Darth Willow we saw in Season 6. Looks more like Willow Season 7 when she uses too much magic.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jul 11, 2008 17:46:24 GMT -5
Why would Dru want to kill Buffy?? Also how do we even know that the big bad here knows that Buffy is in the future and its not just someone teaming up to take out Fray but Buffy just so happens to be there??? Dru isn't a big bad in Buffy's Past in fact they hardly ever made contact. Why would Dru care about Buffy? "Lovers Walk":Spike: "It was that truce with Buffy that did it. Dru said I'd gone soft. Wasn't demon enough for the likes of her. And I told her it didn't mean anything, I was thinking of her the whole time, but she didn't care." "Fool for Love":Drusilla: "Why can't you kill her?" Spike: "You're the one who keeps bringing her up! I haven't said a word about the bloody Slayer since we left California. She's on the other side of the planet, Dru!" Drusilla: "But you're lying! I can still see her floating all around you, laughing. Why? Why won't you push her away?" Spike: "But I did, pet. I did it for you. And you keep punishing me. Carrying on with creatures like this." ... Drusilla: "You can't blame a girl, Spike. You're all covered with her. I look at you... all I see is the Slayer." So crazy or not, Dru does have her lucid moments, and did love Spike, and did blame Buffy for being the thing that "ruined" Spike for her and broke them up. She never showed any real desire to come back and take revenge on Buffy for that, but if she had a vision that showed her she'd have a chance to kill her, she'd certainly take it. She's a vampire, Buffy's a slayer--does she need any more reason than that? She killed Kendra without ever having any previous contact with her, after all. And the blurb writers have proven already that their descriptions don't always necessarily tell the full and complete truth, and aren't always entirely accurate (Renee's death being a "massive hit" was not the best choice of words, for example). She could be teaming up with Harth for another apocalyptic scheme similar to what he had working in "Fray"--she's shown the desire to go along with that sort of idea in the past ("We're going to destroy the world; want to come?"). So despite what the blurbs say, killing Buffy and Mel may not be Harth's and _____'s #1 goal...
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ded1
Rogue Demon Hunter
The Zombie Lord
BRAINS!!![Mo0:8]
Posts: 468
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Post by ded1 on Jul 11, 2008 18:57:09 GMT -5
My new favorite cover
I don't have a firm idea as to who the person is that is supposed to kill the last two slayers (Dru,Willow,Amy,etc.),however I can see logic in all three choices.The question,to me, is why they want to kill them.We really have no clue to this.It could be something that happens in Buffy's past(the present timeline of the season) or something that happens in Buffy's future(still the past in Fray's time).
As for lasting long enough(100 to 200 years,I don't remember the actual time difference between Buffy and Fray,and am too lazy to go check right now),this doesn't necessarily mean immortality.Remember Holtz in Angel.He was an ordinary human who was held in a sort of suspended animation.Why couldn't this happen again?
To those who ask "Why would Willow want to hurt Buffy?",think about this.A current theme in this season so far is asking if activating all the slayers was really a good thing.We have so far seen a rouge slayer (Gigi),renegade slayers (Simone),and even a loosening of Buffy's moral code (robbing a bank.Perhaps more)Perhaps things could degrade enough that Willow could be forced to take action against the slayers.Perhaps she would have to tap into alot more power to do so,driving her insane(Maybe it's not Dark Willow,but Crazy Willow)Perhaps it is designed to give Buffy a real glimpse of a darker outcome from activating the slayers,and when she gets back to her present,attempts to prevent it from coming to pass. Please note that this isn't a prediction,but rather simply a way to show that Willow isn't really a far-fetched guess
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