Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
|
Post by Mathieu on Oct 15, 2008 18:46:29 GMT -5
Just another crazy theory. But think about it. I personnally think that Jasmine was genuine when she said that she was trying to bring world peace (she would have eaten a few humans a day in exchange of millions of lives she could have saved). But stupid Angel opted for a world of chaos in the name of free will. Interesting to debate though.
Anyway let's consider Jasmine was bringing peace on Earth. At the same time the First was trying to bring hell on Earth starting with Sunnydale. Wouldn't it make sense if he had tried to stop Connor from helping Cordelia to give birth to Jasmine so she wouldn't get in the way? From that new perspective one can wonder if Darla was not actually the first when she tried to talk Connor out of Cordy's plan.
|
|
Malsad
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Attack Attack!
[Mo0:37]
Posts: 684
|
Post by Malsad on Oct 15, 2008 20:48:16 GMT -5
kool idea but i dont think so She was used as an agent of the PTB
|
|
|
Post by SlayerLV on Oct 16, 2008 0:15:28 GMT -5
I don't think she was the first she seemed to want to help Connor make the right decisions.
|
|
Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
|
Post by Mathieu on Oct 16, 2008 6:17:23 GMT -5
Well, why not? The First's job is to mess with people's minds. It wouldn't be interesting if it showed up saying "beware I'm evil and I'm going to give some nasty evil pieces of advice!". Plus why LA and Sunnydale wouldn't be more connected? What happens in one place should have consequences in the other place. Sometimes it seems like it can be apocalyptic in Sunnydale and all sunny and birds singing in LA or vice versa. When it comes to the end of days it certainly goes global, doesn't it?
I think my theory makes sense... but I'm pretty sure it was not the writers' intention!
|
|
|
Post by faithnspike on Oct 16, 2008 7:17:39 GMT -5
Nope The first would have tried to get him to kill the girl. The first likes messing with people in order for them to do something for the first. Kill spike, kill themselves, inspire fear, not save a life
|
|
|
Post by henzINNIT on Oct 16, 2008 8:38:46 GMT -5
It would be the First's agenda to stop Jasmine from rising and ruining its own apocalypse. I also urge you to consider the similarities between Connor's vision of his mother and Dawn's encounter with Joyce earlier that year. Joyce was portrayed as very loving (as was Darla) and it was still the First. Now I don't neccessarily think it was written that Darla was the First, but it can be logically applied and certainly wasn't proven wrong at any time. I like the idea personally, it adds a layer of competition amongst the evil forces.
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Oct 16, 2008 13:07:19 GMT -5
I agree, it could be the first. But considering how the powers that be can enter this world, it might have been them that sent the ghost of Darla.
I disagree about the "world-peace over free wil tough". If there's just one nice person who says; "I don't want to risk getting eaten or give up my free will" it shouldn't be done, even tough many would have liked that. And after a while, how many humans would have existed? After a few centuries, wouldn't she have eaten them all?
EDIT- I found and argument to why the first could have been Darla.
In season 3, the first wants to kill Angel. Why? Could it be because the first knew of Jasmine's plan, the one Skip told of, that everything that had happened was meant to create Connor and then Jasmine? So the First tried to kill Angel to stop Jasmine from coming forth. It would only make sense if The First made one last effort to stop Jasmine by pretending to be Darla.
|
|
jason321
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 128
|
Post by jason321 on Oct 17, 2008 1:12:08 GMT -5
It wasnt the first(aka the LAME), but it wasnt the real Darla either. I tend to think that if the real Darla encountered Conner she would have been more like "OMG Conner, you sank big daddy Angel to the bottom of the ocean! Thats my boy!," rather than "Conner, killing virgins is bad, mmmkay."
|
|
|
Post by faithnspike on Oct 17, 2008 7:22:30 GMT -5
This is the human Darla though. She killed her self to give Conner life, just because she was sharing a soul, imagine what she would be like as human. I know we saw her as human at the beginning of season 2, but she was dealing with the pain of being reinsouled. Angel wasn’t the same person as he is now right after he got his soul. She very likely would try to help him after all she died for him. I also think the First would have tried to stop Jasmine at another point. The opportunity to screw Conner up for life, and making him a killer would have been very tempting to the first.
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Oct 17, 2008 12:20:48 GMT -5
It wasnt the first(aka the LAME), but it wasnt the real Darla either. I tend to think that if the real Darla encountered Conner she would have been more like "OMG Conner, you sank big daddy Angel to the bottom of the ocean! Thats my boy!," rather than "Conner, killing virgins is bad, mmmkay." Like faithnspike said, you're thinking of soulless Darla and human Darla from early season 2, not of the later, "improved" darla. She died for her son and Angel did a lot for her, which i think she appreciated.
|
|
|
Post by buffyverseforever on Oct 17, 2008 16:53:56 GMT -5
I don't think so. I don't see the First trying to foil Jasmine's plans-the First would be encouraging her.
Best wishes,
Scott
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Oct 18, 2008 4:20:51 GMT -5
I don't think so. I don't see the First trying to foil Jasmine's plans-the First would be encouraging her. Best wishes, Scott The First wants to destroy, Jasmine wants to eat and control. Not exactly the same agenda. Besides, they're both evil and know not to trust each other. I bet they don't like working with others.
|
|
cant
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 32
|
Post by cant on Oct 18, 2008 6:34:42 GMT -5
i think it was first.and i dont think that even darla herself know she has a son.her soul was heaven or hell or ether .when she pregnant demon that inhabit darlas body is effected with CONNORs soul not her real soul again.she feel and get soul yes but not hers.she realy ether in that moment.
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Oct 18, 2008 7:00:21 GMT -5
i think it was first.and i dont think that even darla herself know she has a son.her soul was heaven or hell or ether .when she pregnant demon that inhabit darlas body is effected with CONNORs soul not her real soul again.she feel and get soul yes but not hers.she realy ether in that moment. When Angel had a soul, he remembered what happened to him when he didn't have a soul, and when he lost his soul and added two letters to his name, he remembered everything that happened to him when he had soul. So in case Darla comes back to life again, she'll be able to tell us about her birth pains, wheter she has a soul or not. (Unless, what happened to Angel's memory of the beast, which only Angelus remembered, can happen to Darla. But I figured that was a special case, caused by Jasmine or her followers. Why would Jasmine bother erasing Darla's memories of Connor?)
|
|
cant
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 32
|
Post by cant on Oct 18, 2008 7:05:27 GMT -5
its because of brain keeps memories so yes if darla bring back to her body she ll remember it because of the memories on her brain.if she sees him like a ghost she cant remember him.its exactly what happens when you sired.demon posess your body and because of your memories in your brain it remembers everything.vampire you ll tells that he is exactly you and he believes it but actually he is not and you are long dead. darlas soul cant remember that unless she watches them from where she is.after vampire killed his demon spirit goes to hell or destroyed(but i think they goes to hell because darlas demon came back when she sired by drusilla again) ps:and sorry for my english but as you notice english isnt my native language
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Oct 18, 2008 7:16:21 GMT -5
That could be true. After all, when Angel was re-ensouled the first and second time, he didn't remember immediatly. I see that there would be three reasons for her to remember; 1.She didn't know, but the powers that be filled her in so she could go to Connor. 2. When she staked herself, her brain-memories and whatever spirit that was left in her vampire-body joined her soul in the ether, which means that her soul knows. 3. She simply just knows. The only reason Angel didn't remember anything when he got his soul back is because his soul had jet-lag and couldn't fill him in immidiatly. But the soul taht is in the either is "all-knowing" or something. I guess we just have to guess. its because of brian keeps memeory so yes. it tells that he is exactly you and he believes it but actually he is not and you are gone so long Huh? Brian who? Who believes what? "your are gone" as in me, Skytteflickan88? And we're not allowed to double-post, you must edit your former post in case you have something new to say. Write "EDIT" and add what you have to say.
|
|
cant
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 32
|
Post by cant on Oct 18, 2008 7:44:51 GMT -5
thanx ý modify my post.
|
|
|
Post by buffyverseforever on Oct 18, 2008 16:32:37 GMT -5
I don't think so. I don't see the First trying to foil Jasmine's plans-the First would be encouraging her. Best wishes, Scott Jasmine was causing a lot of destuction while believing she was doing good-I think the First would like that. Also,remember the First needs to be able to work with others better than most villains since the First can't actually touch anything. The First needs pawns... Best wishes, Scott The First wants to destroy, Jasmine wants to eat and control. Not exactly the same agenda. Besides, they're both evil and know not to trust each other. I bet they don't like working with others.
|
|
Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
|
Post by Mathieu on Oct 19, 2008 19:23:02 GMT -5
I think it all comes down to knowing if Jasmine was there to do some good or if she was just a villain. I personnally believe she was genuine when she said she wanted world peace.
|
|
|
Post by luna on Nov 30, 2008 19:43:03 GMT -5
This poll is null and void because it was Darla's spirit. She was trying to save Connor from turning evil so this "Theory" is so totally flawed it isn't funny. And what's all the talk about Jasmine about? I mean if your going to discuss Jasmine then shouldn't the poll be about her?
Also, one last thing. "Joyce was portrayed as very loving and it was still the First."
Joyce wasn't the first when Dawn saw her that was the acutally Joyce. The only Joyce that was evil was the dead one that was all blue laying on the sofa.
|
|