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Post by Wyndam on Jan 8, 2009 20:40:27 GMT -5
I thought this was a decent issue. The first few pages (that we were shown in the preview) just did not flow well. I didn't like the thought captions and the dialogue was weird. After that though, the issue picked up. Soledad was certainly a surprise, but her "arc" was probably my favorite part of the issue in that it really showcased just how distant Buffy has become. Loved that to death.
I love Harmony, but I wasn't thrilled with her in this issue. I think Jane did a pretty decent job writing this issue (it could have used a lot of pacing editing though, RE: my comments about the first few pages), but Harmony's voice wasn't as solid as it could have been.
I was also surprised at the lack of attention Harmony got initially, exposing that vampires were real. Just didn't seem....right. I understand that this sort of served tthe story of the issue, in that Harmony needed a "villain" on her show in order to get better ratings, but in reality, if Vampires were exposed to be real in OUR world, they would get a lot more than a low budget MTV reality show in terms of TV coverage. Just really odd decisions.
Overall though, I did enjoy this issue. My hype meter was never very high for this arc (except for the last 3 issues), as I am really excited about Oz returning...in 5 months, but the overall message of this issue was really nice.
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Post by wenxina on Jan 8, 2009 21:25:07 GMT -5
Finally gonna take a break from work to post my thoughts on this issue. In general, not a fan. I was expecting more, especially since I've enjoyed most of the episodes written by Espenson. Like a few people have pointed out, the internal monologue/thought bubbles at the start didn't work very well. They just seemed awkward. Harmony in general has never really resonated well with me, but Jane's writing was commendable in that it rang true. The Soledad subplot was quite well-done, but while I understand why Buffy didn't connect with her, I have no idea why so many people are blaming Buffy for that. While it's true that she's been kinda out of touch with reality for a while (ironically, the issue parodies reality tv), how the heck was she supposed to know that our newly activated Slayer was fresh out of a gang, and didn't want to hear a spiel on sisterhood and unity and duty? But I do find it interesting that at least 2 rogue Slayers play rather important roles in this arc. Soledad, as sympathetic as her character was, went rogue. She did what Slayers are supposed to do in private on MTV for crying out loud! Offed by Harmony... that's gotta be sadder than being bagged by Drusilla. And yeah, I believe that she's dead. She was impaled by her own (makeshift) stake, before Harmony drank from her. As for why people were so cool with vampires and Harmony's killing, it may say something about the reality show watching audience. I mean, there are so many trainwrecks of shows out there that get renewed; I think people just like to be shocked by the next new thing. Also, I'm not quite convinced that people really believe this whole vampire thing. It's like those vampire cults... they may be an oddity that suddenly gained popularity.
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Post by Wyndam on Jan 8, 2009 21:51:15 GMT -5
I agree, Soledad is definitely dead.
[Spike]
Harm bagged a Slayer?!?
[/Spike]
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pablo
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 101
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Post by pablo on Jan 9, 2009 5:55:12 GMT -5
Yeah well seems like everyone's making their own record at slayer-killing. tho it'd be fun to see spike's reaction to this lol
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alycat7
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
I don't wanna be this good looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear - Spike[Mo0:4]
Posts: 752
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Post by alycat7 on Jan 9, 2009 10:52:39 GMT -5
I must say, after seeing the preview pages...I was so close to not even buying this issue. But it turned out really well. Good to see Clem again too.
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watcher
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 211
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Post by watcher on Jan 9, 2009 17:39:41 GMT -5
Honestly this issue was just painful to read. I loathe reality t.v and the thought of Harmony getting a show on mtv is nauseating. Frankly I could care less about harmony..sure I dont mind if she pops up for a cameo, but a whole issue dedicated to her is..well boring. This season seriously needs to get back to the core group of scoobies...I could care less about everything else. Sorry but this issue is
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Post by VampSlayer on Jan 9, 2009 18:08:42 GMT -5
Honestly this issue was just painful to read. I loathe reality t.v and the thought of Harmony getting a show on mtv is nauseating. Frankly I could care less about harmony..sure I dont mind if she pops up for a cameo, but a whole issue dedicated to her is..well boring. This season seriously needs to get back to the core group of scoobies...I could care less about everything else. Sorry but this issue is I'm sad to say that I agree with this.
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Jan 9, 2009 20:27:41 GMT -5
Honestly this issue was just painful to read. I loathe reality t.v and the thought of Harmony getting a show on mtv is nauseating. Frankly I could care less about harmony..sure I dont mind if she pops up for a cameo, but a whole issue dedicated to her is..well boring. This season seriously needs to get back to the core group of scoobies...I could care less about everything else. Sorry but this issue is I think I've jumped on this wagon, too. I totally called that this would be the first issue of Season Eight I really wouldn't like.
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Post by wenxina on Jan 9, 2009 21:05:18 GMT -5
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alycat7
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
I don't wanna be this good looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear - Spike[Mo0:4]
Posts: 752
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Post by alycat7 on Jan 9, 2009 21:39:35 GMT -5
Honestly this issue was just painful to read. I loathe reality t.v and the thought of Harmony getting a show on mtv is nauseating. Frankly I could care less about harmony..sure I dont mind if she pops up for a cameo, but a whole issue dedicated to her is..well boring. This season seriously needs to get back to the core group of scoobies...I could care less about everything else. Sorry but this issue is There is nothing I hate more than reality t.v. as well. Worst idea ever!
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Jan 9, 2009 22:10:18 GMT -5
Honestly this issue was just painful to read. I loathe reality t.v and the thought of Harmony getting a show on mtv is nauseating. Frankly I could care less about harmony..sure I dont mind if she pops up for a cameo, but a whole issue dedicated to her is..well boring. This season seriously needs to get back to the core group of scoobies...I could care less about everything else. Sorry but this issue is There is nothing I hate more than reality t.v. as well. Worst idea ever! It just doesn't really make any sense to me. Why would the general public except vampires? I mean, it makes sense in True Blood because the development of fake blood made vampires able to control themselves around humans by drinking the true blood. This is because people saw pictures of a vampire sucking the blood out of a human? Um, didn't people see that on the Buffy show and people flipped out and screamed. Also, why would they give Harmony her own reality show? Wouldn't she be on the news? Wouldn't some people have been against the idea? It wasn't that it was a bad idea...it was just poorly executed.
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Post by wenxina on Jan 9, 2009 22:49:21 GMT -5
Hey, MTV is not against some really bad ideas that translate into absolutely trashy reality TV. I think that was a point that was made quite clearly in this issue. I mean, how many people actually watch Room Raiders, Parental Control, The Real World, etc and not cringe. Well, how many people with good sense anyway? But the point is, these shows are popular, if for nothing else than "guilty pleasures". Yes, watching idiots cheat on other idiots, while their parents engage in a verbal smackdown with their current significant other really gives me a tingly feeling. But that just shows that people being against the idea doesn't really hamper its chances of happening. A network like MTV capitalizes on what's hot at the moment. They could care less if the fad faded by the next season.
People being assaulted by vampires; that's terrifying. They usually kill to feed. But Harmony is not killing people, as evidenced by the walking commercials for Band-Aid. And with the proper marketing, vampires are "sexy". I mean, hello, did we miss the Twilight phenomena? Or the legions of Angel and Spike lovers. Or even before them, Dracula, Louis, Lestat, Armand, etc. We're inundated by "edgy" and "provocative" media, all the time.
The fans are people who are apparently oblivious to the vampire mythos of the Buffyverse; that vampires are soulless, blood-sucking fiends. Being bitten is cool, a necessary hurdle for the 5 seconds of fame that the mindless yearn for. In the words of one such moron, "It's like you feel weaker, but you feel like that's okay".
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Post by hitnrun017 on Jan 9, 2009 22:59:57 GMT -5
Finally got it, and wasn't too impressed. Harmony being one of my favorite characters and Jane being one of my favorite writers got me EXTREMELY excited for this issue, but I was let down. It was still good, some great lines... but it just doesn't really make sense to me. I agree with Wyndam, a reality show on MTV? If the entire world found out vampires really do exist, I would imagine everyone freaking the hell out, being on the news EVERYWHERE... like a global crisis or something. The entire issue just flowed weird too, the way the whole thing was set up got annoying at times.
I didn't really get Soledad. Was I suppose to fall in love with her character in a couple pages? The only purpose she served in my eyes was for Harmony to kill her. Besides that, she ment nothing to me, she felt like a waste of time. At least we found out some Slayers are running their own gangs.
This issue did have one of my favorite moments of the season though, and that would be the horse trying to get it on with Dawn while Xander tries to restrain it. That gave big laughs. The last page was great too. I certainly didn't expect to see Anderson Cooper in a Buffy comic. Seems like Buffy's last line set up the rest of the season. I really hope Harmony doesn't get killed because of this, my heart will shatter. She is just too amazing to die.
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Post by wenxina on Jan 9, 2009 23:31:38 GMT -5
At least we found out some Slayers are running their own gangs. I thought we already learned that in #11, with Simone. Where in this issue did we learn that some Slayers are running their own gangs? The only instance I can think of is Soledad's old gang, but I'm pretty sure that all the other girls were just regular (albeit, with very violent tendencies) girls. Hence them all being taken down rather easily.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Jan 10, 2009 0:02:58 GMT -5
At least we found out some Slayers are running their own gangs. I thought we already learned that in #11, with Simone. Where in this issue did we learn that some Slayers are running their own gangs? The only instance I can think of is Soledad's old gang, but I'm pretty sure that all the other girls were just regular (albeit, with very violent tendencies) girls. Hence them all being taken down rather easily. Ah right, good point. All these girls are starting to confuse me. Slayer or not a Slayer?
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Post by henzINNIT on Jan 10, 2009 7:10:04 GMT -5
Quite surprised by the negative responses to this issue. Maybe not being a Harmony fan I had no hopes up or whatever, but I felt it was perfectly executed. Plenty of little laughs, and a real sense of a subtle shift that you just know will snowball into much larger things. I felt like it was kind of a sequel to The Chain in some ways, focusing on another individual slayer and the price she pays for Buffy's decision to call them all. Only this time she rejected the movement instead of joining it. It was great that Harmony didn't play such a massive, dramatic part. She's too shallow to be a major character (that's why Harm's Way failed) and it's brilliant that her life was shown in such a paper-thin, trash TV way. She could never know the weight of her part in this development and i love that this is shown in a shockingly accurate comment on media and reality TV.
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Post by Rebecca on Jan 10, 2009 14:26:50 GMT -5
I have to say I agree with Henz. I LOVED this issue. There were so many little things in it that really made it good for me. Like in the tattoo parlor, Harm is looking for tatts, and there were so many familiar tatts on that wall! Angel's, the "B" Buffy symbol, Faith's... the Prince symbol, Batman, the Flash, Dark Angel, Fantastic Four, the Punisher, Dark Horse, "5x5"... "I've got a little cartoon duck somewhere" hahaha. I thought Espenson captured Harmony's voice quite well. I could actually hear her voice coming through the lines "And you can just follow me around, and watch my life, see me with my friends who you can cast people for". ohemgee. I had to read that one twice, but I nearly fell out of my chair. Also: "Old media sucks but so do I, L.O.L." teehee. As for previous criticisms of the preview, I've come to the realization that the first few pages were supposed to be choppy, it was Harm editing it!! Also, Georges did a nice touch on all the unicorns. Andrew was hilarious as well. Wearing a Spice World sweater: "People suck. Ooh. Anderson Cooper." hahahahahahaha In addition to the wonderfully funny tidbits, I think there were some more serious things which add to the themes being shown in this season. I believe the Unicorn interested in Dawn has a two symbolic significances. One, it demonstrates Buffy's distance, where she doesn't recognize the scene is happening, and she is welcoming the new slayer over the phone. Two, the unicorn symbolizes purity, hope, love, and majesty. Buffy wasn't interacting with it, but Dawn, Willow, and Xander were. I believe that this represents the moral cleft separating the scoobies from Buffy. I can understand that not everyone would identify with the latina slayer (where did you get her name again??), but I sure did. I thought she was awesome and focused. [Although, slight nit-pick, I thought her face was drawn fugly in a couple panels.] She also demonstrates a theme peeking out in this season of Identity. Overall, I thought the reality-show thing went well. I did think it strange that everyone was made aware of vamps and they were made fashionable rather than fearsome, and I was slightly disappointed that the audience wasn't shown how the world was made aware of vampires in the first issue of this arc. [However if I remember correctly, they have 4 more issues to fill in the gaps, as I am under the impression that all of this arc is the same story told from 5 different perspectives.] And it is true, sometimes the world isn't that rational. I mean, Harmony kills a slayer on live TV and she's made out to be the victim!! I think this is one point, but also to illustrate what Emmie has been writing, that Buffy isn't as morally correct as she thinks she is. "They can tell who's wearing the white hats, right?" More than anything this issue makes me enjoy Whedon all the more. He turns the world upside down to explore the humanity of his characters, and Espenson handled it wonderfully. Awesome issue.
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Jan 10, 2009 14:28:10 GMT -5
A few people have complained that the vamps-being-outed story wasn't handled as seriously as it should have been. You have to remember that this is the Buffyverse we're talking about, remember how Cordelia and Oz reacted to demons being real? It was pretty much "Whatever, that makes sense". We've seen across Buffy and especially Angel that many members of the public are aware of the supernatural; everyone's dabbled with the occult or has a friend of a friend who was killed by a vampire. I'm guessing Harmony's "taste of Dick" probably wasn't the revelation we thought it would be. Not to mention that this is a parody of the MTV audience, who are pretty much numb to controversial material. I'm sure there are people in the Buffyverse complaining about Harmony Bites (the PTC won't be pleased I imagine) but the general public just find it morbidly fascinating.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Jan 10, 2009 14:47:52 GMT -5
A few people have complained that the vamps-being-outed story wasn't handled as seriously as it should have been. You have to remember that this is the Buffyverse we're talking about, remember how Cordelia and Oz reacted to demons being real? It was pretty much "Whatever, that makes sense". We've seen across Buffy and especially Angel that many members of the public are aware of the supernatural; everyone's dabbled with the occult or has a friend of a friend who was killed by a vampire. I'm guessing Harmony's "taste of Dick" probably wasn't the revelation we thought it would be. Not to mention that this is a parody of the MTV audience, who are pretty much numb to controversial material. I'm sure there are people in the Buffyverse complaining about Harmony Bites (the PTC won't be pleased I imagine) but the general public just find it morbidly fascinating. Yeah, that makes sense. But obviously the entire world wouldn't have that kind of reaction. Take Kate for example, in my eyes, she had the most realistic reaction to the supernatural. This was someone who had no idea about what else goes on, and when she finally did, it screwed her up. While she's not a huge character, Harmony Bites kind of retconned her entire character arc. But whatever, this is the Buffyverse. I guess it's also ok to show a young girl getting murdered on television.
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witcher
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
Homicidal Bunny
Willow fan forever[Mo0:30]
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Post by witcher on Jan 10, 2009 14:59:12 GMT -5
Well I just finished the issue and I must say that I agree with the most of the post: HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT!!!
First of all I'm not a Harmony fan so giving her a entire issue seems like such a bad move. And what is wrong with the world??? I get that when vampires went public there were couple of morons who thought that that is a great thing ( people liked Twilight - nothing can surprise me! ), but I figured there would be people with common sense that would be against vampires. Anything that happens - every war, every government decision, every artist ( or ones work) has pros and cont, so I would imagine that vampires have too. And why wasn't it a big news??? If people found out that we weren't on the top of the food chain any more we would start panicking! There would be riots, protests... The story just wasn't convincing enough! Couple of good things: I liked that new Slayer, and how she rejected to work with Buffy, because of the gang thing. It made me thing... When Buffy was the Slayer she went to school, went out, had friends, had romance... The Council let her have some level of normal life. Now that she is the boss.. She is recruiting girls, they leave their home, to join an army. People lose their daughters, sisters, girlfriends because they went to fight with Buffy. Other good thing was Dawn. The picture where she is attacked by that horse was the high-point of the issue.
All in all, I hated this issue! I just hope the rest of the arc is better!!!
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