Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Feb 20, 2009 10:46:26 GMT -5
I can't tell you how much fun it is to be literally the only person in the world who wants Buffy and Satsu to be together. Parker Abrams must be relieved to no longer be Buffy's least popular hookup. You're definitely not the only one who feels that way (not sure if that makes you feel better, or worse ). I'd never call myself a shipper of any pairing, but I did enjoy the Buffy/Satsu storyline, and wouldn't mind at all seeing them get together on a more permanent basis. Satsu's a great character, and being a fellow slayer, might actually "get" Buffy better than any of the previous lovers in her life--or at least, certain aspects of her. After all, it was Spike's understanding of the darkness within her that provided him with his original "in" in S6. And I don't think I'd go so far as to say Satsu's passed Parker as Buffy's least-popular hookup. I think there were plenty of fans out there who didn't have a problem with it (In fact, this poll had the Slayalivers give it an overall positive reaction, by a small margin). It's just that, like anything else, the haters are a very loud group. It bothered me in this case, because I think a lot of them (not all, but a lot) were using the gender thing as a convenient excuse. Simple fact is that I think a lot of the 'shippers got angry because in their minds Buffy should only be with _______ (fill in the blank with Angel, Spike, or Xander), and should remain alone and celibate until that happens. It's that same logic that makes people say, even now, halfway thru S8, "I don't like Kennedy because Willow should only be with Tara", or "I only want Xander to be with Anya!" You can't retard the growth of the characters--or the story--hanging onto the memories of characters who just aren't around anymore, and in the case of Tara and Anya, probably won't ever be around again... Yeah, I can't say I understand the logic behind "shipping". Sure, there are certain relationships I like or support more than others, but I don't obsess over one single pairing to the exclusion of all others. Different relationships bring out different sides of the characters and that's a good thing. I also don't see the need for all characters to "end up with someone". I prefer to view them as individuals, which is why I love the cookie dough scene in "Chosen" so much. It did a great job of showing that Buffy loves both Angel and Spike, but is not concerned with spending the rest of her life with either. At the risk of being offensive, I think the kind of obsessive shippers that El Diablo Robotico describes are the lowest form of fan. If the only thing you care about in Buffy is who character X is dating, you're not really fully appreciating the characters and the series. Not saying that you shouldn't care about a particular relationship, but there's other stuff to enjoy, you know? As for Buffy/Satsu, I'm satisfied with their brief relationship, but I certainly don't agree with those who claim that Satsu was just a hump-and-dump for Buffy's convenience. There were genuine feelings there (possibly not romantic on Buffy's part) and it's totally different from the abusive Buffy/Spike relationship.
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Feb 20, 2009 13:39:51 GMT -5
I think that its not correct for people to try and relate Buffy and Spike to Buffy and Satsu. The sexual liason with Spike brought shame and a desire for secrecy for Buffy, she was only sleeping with him because of her depressed and blank state that she was in. As Buffy tells Xander in S8, she doesnt feel a connection to the Slayers anymore, and Xander replies with, "well maybe thats what you had to give up". So therefore Buffy was guided to the one person she SHOULD have a connection with (a fellow Slayer) and connected by having sex with her. I think she realised this afterwards that it was the wrong thing to do, but that doesnt mean that she didnt have an emotional connection to Satsu, but the connection she had with her wasnt the same one that Satsu had with Buffy.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 20, 2009 13:46:32 GMT -5
I think that its not correct for people to try and relate Buffy and Spike to Buffy and Satsu. The sexual liason with Spike brought shame and a desire for secrecy for Buffy, she was only sleeping with him because of her depressed and blank state that she was in. As Buffy tells Xander in S8, she doesnt feel a connection to the Slayers anymore, and Xander replies with, "well maybe thats what you had to give up". So therefore Buffy was guided to the one person she SHOULD have a connection with (a fellow Slayer) and connected by having sex with her. I think she realised this afterwards that it was the wrong thing to do, but that doesnt mean that she didnt have an emotional connection to Satsu, but the connection she had with her wasnt the same one that Satsu had with Buffy. I can agree with this, I think. The way I sum it up is: I think Buffy genuinely loves Satsu, but is not in love with her. (Although she totally should be. )
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Malsad
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Attack Attack!
[Mo0:37]
Posts: 684
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Post by Malsad on Feb 22, 2009 14:54:19 GMT -5
Why does every one say that buffy loves Satsu now, she just slept with her thats it, they had some fun, thats all
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Feb 23, 2009 14:10:34 GMT -5
I dont think Buffy LOVES Satsu in any way. She was attracted to her, slept with her, but that was it. Other than the sex, she never showed any true forms of affection; she didnt send her flowers and take her to a dance or hold hands in public.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 23, 2009 14:43:25 GMT -5
I dont think Buffy LOVES Satsu in any way. She was attracted to her, slept with her, but that was it. Other than the sex, she never showed any true forms of affection; she didnt send her flowers and take her to a dance or hold hands in public. Didn't show her any true forms of affection? Please. Re-read the comics. And maybe expand your definition of "love" to more than just stereotypical sex and romance.
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Malsad
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Attack Attack!
[Mo0:37]
Posts: 684
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Post by Malsad on Feb 23, 2009 16:04:32 GMT -5
maby its you who should re read the comics
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Post by Wyndam on Feb 23, 2009 16:07:46 GMT -5
Let's stay civil, everyone.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 23, 2009 16:27:09 GMT -5
I've read these comics quite enough times. If you can actually read ABS and WatG and not even see any affection between Buffy and Satsu, then I'm afraid nothing I can point out is going to help you. Buffy holding Satsu after the Twilight attack. Their scene together in the hospital. The bed scene at the beginning of WatG (not the sex, the talk). The scene at the end of WatG, with Buffy hoping she didn't hurt Satsu, and agreeing it was one of the best nights of her life, and the look in Buffy's eyes during that whole scene.
If you can't see affection there, then frankly you're trying too hard not to see it.
Buffy is not in love with Satsu. But she loves and cares for her. She is not in love with Willow or Xander or Dawn either, but she loves and cares for them. There is more than one kind of love.
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Post by iamthewalrus on Feb 23, 2009 17:13:19 GMT -5
i agree with AndrewCrossett i think Buffy does love Satsu in the way that she genuinely cares about her, but she isn't IN love with Satsu
i don't think Buffy has any truly romantic feelings for her at all
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Malsad
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Attack Attack!
[Mo0:37]
Posts: 684
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Post by Malsad on Feb 23, 2009 18:17:12 GMT -5
There is a difference between affection and attraction
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Post by wenxina on Feb 23, 2009 19:30:36 GMT -5
There is a difference between affection and attraction Yes, but love can encompass both. That was the point Andrew was making. Split hairs much? And btw, Buffy was very appreciative of Satsu's style. She called Satsu "hot", and loved her hair. While that may not be attraction per se, it does speak of Buffy's appreciation for Satsu's hotness. Shall we debate lust vs. love now?
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 23, 2009 19:32:14 GMT -5
There is a difference between affection and attraction Yes, there is. And Buffy feels both for Satsu. She is clearly attracted to her (Example: had sex with her twice) And she clearly feels affection for her. (Example: just about everything else the two of them said or did together over the course of 5 issues.) Buffy is not in love with Satsu. She doesn't want to marry her and have her kids, she doesn't want to live with her or spend the rest of her life by her side. She is physically attracted to her, she admires and respects her, she likes being with her, she wants her to be safe, she wants to avoid hurting her, she wants her to be happy. She came right out and said every single one of these things.Buffy had sex with Satsu because she desperately needed to feel the love and connection that Satsu could, and wanted to, give her. She wouldn't have been able to feel that with someone she didn't care about. If relief was all she was after, a piece of plastic with a couple of batteries inside would have done the job. Buffy loves Satsu, as a very close friend with whom she shared a special intimacy.
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Whedon Fan
Ensouled Vampire
Joss Is Boss
Banner & Avatar Made By CBG[Mo0:3][Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,312
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Post by Whedon Fan on Feb 23, 2009 20:04:43 GMT -5
There is a difference between affection and attraction Yes, there is. And Buffy feels both for Satsu. She is clearly attracted to her (Example: had sex with her twice) And she clearly feels affection for her. (Example: just about everything else the two of them said or did together over the course of 5 issues.) Buffy is not in love with Satsu. She doesn't want to marry her and have her kids, she doesn't want to live with her or spend the rest of her life by her side. She is physically attracted to her, she admires and respects her, she likes being with her, she wants her to be safe, she wants to avoid hurting her, she wants her to be happy. She came right out and said every single one of these things.Buffy had sex with Satsu because she desperately needed to feel the love and connection that Satsu could, and wanted to, give her. She wouldn't have been able to feel that with someone she didn't care about. If relief was all she was after, a piece of plastic with a couple of batteries inside would have done the job. Buffy loves Satsu, as a very close friend with whom she shared a special intimacy. Totally agree, finally someone who gets the Buffy/Satsu thing. + 1 Karma Andrew! The amount of posts I've read with "Buffy loves Satsu, they should be together" OR "Buffy doesn't like Satsu, why would she"? They shared a special night together that is all, she obviously has a connection with Satsu but Buffy is not gay as stated numerous times. Buffy had an experimental one night stand (well two night stand) that is all. She needed to feel something and Satsu could make her feel they way that she needed. Hate to say it but she used her, not in the way that she used Spike. She was a lot nicer to Satsu but she did and Satsu needs to move on. Glad to see she is at least trying as seen at the end of issue 22.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 23, 2009 20:18:08 GMT -5
The amount of posts I've read with "Buffy loves Satsu, they should be together" OR "Buffy doesn't like Satsu, why would she"? They shared a special night together that is all, she obviously has a connection with Satsu but Buffy is not gay as stated numerous times. Buffy had an experimental one night stand (well two night stand) that is all. She needed to feel something and Satsu could make her feel they way that she needed. Hate to say it but she used her, not in the way that she used Spike. She was a lot nicer to Satsu but she did and Satsu needs to move on. Glad to see she is at least trying as seen at the end of issue 22. I wouldn't say Buffy "used her"... they both definitely got something out of the experience. Satsu got to sleep with the girl of her dreams, after all. And, as I said, there's more between them than just sex. It's a loving friendship with a couple of special memories attached. I'm sure Joss will do something horrible to them before this is over, but it's nice while it lasts.
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deathisyourgift
Ensouled Vampire
to read makes our speaking English good!
Timothy Dalton should win an Oscar and beat Sean Connery over the head with it!!-Andrew[Mo0:37]
Posts: 1,166
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Post by deathisyourgift on Feb 23, 2009 20:21:12 GMT -5
Quick question:
Is this topic titled "Buffy and Satsu: Yay or Nay?" because I came here expecting posts talking about vampy cats and giant four-armed slug monsters..lol
If there isn't already a Buffy & Satsu discussion thread, there should be, since it's obviously a good topic to debate and has a lot of interested posters here..and almost every other topic on this whole site..
Ok, now about those vampy cats and giant four-armed slug monsters. This issue was fun, it reminded me of the fun episodes from the series, such as The Zeppo, A New Man, or Him. The vampy cats are precious and hilarious. Hopefully they've helped the gang/army towards figuring out more about Twilight. I really liked the quick little scene of Harm on Larry King, and Buffy's retort. Most of all, I enjoyed Xander's comment about big but's and Slayers..classic Xand.
Great issue, can't wait for #23.
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Post by wenxina on Feb 23, 2009 20:31:55 GMT -5
Quick question: Is this topic titled "Buffy and Satsu: Yay or Nay?" because I came here expecting posts talking about vampy cats and giant four-armed slug monsters..lol Scroll back a few pages. There's plenty of discussion about the Vampy Cats and other topics of interest.
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deathisyourgift
Ensouled Vampire
to read makes our speaking English good!
Timothy Dalton should win an Oscar and beat Sean Connery over the head with it!!-Andrew[Mo0:37]
Posts: 1,166
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Post by deathisyourgift on Feb 23, 2009 21:10:34 GMT -5
Quick question: Is this topic titled "Buffy and Satsu: Yay or Nay?" because I came here expecting posts talking about vampy cats and giant four-armed slug monsters..lol Scroll back a few pages. There's plenty of discussion about the Vampy Cats and other topics of interest. I know, it was just a comment on how it feels like every topic ends up being a Buffy and Satsu debate, which is valid since it was definitely a plot twist and has a lot of emotional ties with readers. Thanks anyways.
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commandercool
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
DON'T PANIC![Mo0:37]
Posts: 744
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Post by commandercool on Feb 23, 2009 22:25:42 GMT -5
Quick question: Is this topic titled "Buffy and Satsu: Yay or Nay?" because I came here expecting posts talking about vampy cats and giant four-armed slug monsters..lol What's the difference between a slug and a four inch long, living booger? ... ... I couldn't think of one either!
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Feb 24, 2009 2:21:23 GMT -5
Scroll back a few pages. There's plenty of discussion about the Vampy Cats and other topics of interest. I know, it was just a comment on how it feels like every topic ends up being a Buffy and Satsu debate, which is valid since it was definitely a plot twist and has a lot of emotional ties with readers. Thanks anyways. Well, to be fair, Andrew wasn't a member here a year ago when the Buffy/Satsu stuff was a real hot topic. The newbies oughta have an equal chance to debate everything, too, including the old stuff--at least, as long as there's someone else out there willing to get into it with them. Besides, most of the discussion of this particular issue has dried up over the last week or so, anyway, so it's not like it was detracting from a live Vampy Cat or "How'd the slayers work the submarine?" conversation...
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