Season 8 - Living Doll: Issue 25

[Emmie]

May 6, 2009 11:26:57 GMT -5 AndrewCrossett said:

Will there be a Scott Allie Q&A this time around?

As always.

I've actually already opened the thread, though I normally like to wait until I've actually read the current issue so I'm not spoiling myself by being online.

[hitnrun017]

Just got the issue. Spoilers beware...

Such a great issue! Without a doubt the best of the Predators & Prey arc, and it's probably one of the best of the season. The story was okay, but the aspect that made the issue really special were the characters and Doug Petrie's writing, it's the kind of character dialogue that makes us love the show.

Buffy, Xander and Dawn all shine in this issue, some very funny and touching stuff. Andrew had a few great moments and Willow was present for about one second. What is with that this arc? The thing I loved most about this issue is we finally get some Buffy/Dawn sister relationship-ness, something that was lacking terribly this season and we haven't seen since issue 4. I was very happy that Buffy decided to let the Slayers take care of the vamp army while she looked for Dawn. That was a really nice twist because I was worried it would be the other way around. One of the best moments so far this season is on the final page and it deals with Dawn's problems we saw in that scene with Xander in issue 2.

The whole story with Kenny and the other dolls was good, but it was just too rushed, which is my only problem with the issue. I think the problem had to of been the standalone format, it would have worked a lot better as a little story within an arc. There is a nice scene between Kenny and Dawn, and I loved the twist when she became normal again, all she had to do was something so simple. There is a little plot hole I think. We found out in Time of Your Life that there would only be three stages in Dawn's transformations, but here it says they would have kept going. That can be easily fan-wanked though.

Another brilliant thing about the issue: Jeanty's art! Holy wow it was so good, probably his best yet, everything about it was perfect: the environments, likenesses, facial expressions and action. Having Cliff Richards fill in for Safe did wonders. How amazingly cute did Buffy look?! With the pigtails and hat. Aww.

Now the major disappointment. The big Twilight revelation? Nothing. Not even a mention. But other then that and a story that was a little rushed, this issue is pretty damn near perfect.

[AndrewCrossett]

May 6, 2009 11:51:23 GMT -5 Emmie said:

I've actually already opened the thread, though I normally like to wait until I've actually read the current issue so I'm not spoiling myself by being online.

I know what you mean... in fact, I had to make my eyes go out of focus when scanning past hitnrun017's post, up there.

[hitnrun017]

May 6, 2009 12:12:53 GMT -5 AndrewCrossett said:

May 6, 2009 11:51:23 GMT -5 Emmie said:

I've actually already opened the thread, though I normally like to wait until I've actually read the current issue so I'm not spoiling myself by being online.

I know what you mean... in fact, I had to make my eyes go out of focus when scanning past hitnrun017's post, up there.

[Emmie]

Hooray for the return of Buffy-speak! Petrie is on fire as he brings closure to the 'Dawn transformation' plotline with wit, wonderful pacing and pitch perfect character gold.

One point of order before I go into what I loved about this issue - how does Buffy always manage to choose the most supernaturally hot hotspots to set up her homebase? Apparently not only are there forest folk nearby but a Gepetto who lives in a "creepy" ass cottage. Just saying, it'd be nice to have a Hellmouth to explain the crazy or perhaps some kind of Scottish legend backing it up.

And the torture scene in the beginning is a complete mislead as Gepetto is actually keeping porcelain doll!Dawn safe because her soul could leak out if she's broken ('course he's still keeping her captive, but he's a cuddly captor). There are no villains to defeat in this issue, no demons to slay except for Dawn's guilt and regret. The whammy Kenny put on her magically released itself when Dawn said "I'm sorry." And I'll pause for the requisite I told you so" ---- But ha! I told you so to everyone who said that Buffy and Willow were fully informed about Dawn sleeping with Kenny's roommate when they're clearly not. Xander accidentally lets the cat out of the bag to Buffy and hates himself for revealing Dawn's secret. A secret that he can "now hate [himself] in British" for spilling.

The witty repartee in this issue was a joy to read and Xander's line - "I have an ace in my hole. Let me instantly rephrase that...we have an inside man." - made me laugh so hard I had to put down the comic for a minute. Along with the wonderful Xander dialogue and the awesome Veronica Mars shout-out, the final closing scene between Buffy and Dawn is utterly heartwarming. Buffy reassuring Dawn that she has "a thousand soldiers. Only one sister...I love my sister to death" is great to hear and the closing threat "I will kill you" to Dawn for scratching her VM dvd ends the issue on a perfectly snarky note.

Interesting to note that the supposed vampire threat that got such a viciously, wicked name - Judas Priest - turns out to be so lame that the Slayers immediately overwhelm the enemy of all six vampires in the army. Kinda reinforces the idea that the Slayers are so large in number perhaps they're becoming their own worst enemy.

The hilarity continues with Andrew as the "inside man" who pretends to be a college student looking to room with Kenny in order to set up totems to transport the Thricewise back to Scotland - the awesome part besides Andrew's awkwardly funny dialogue - the totems are Yodas. Hee!

And my review is horribly out of order with the way things went down but just read it as Memento meets stream-of-consciousness.

[Tyler Austin "tiewashere"]

I was a little dissapointed because there was no "major Twilight revelation" like everyone said there was going to be. But liked the issue, none the less. Definitely a keeper from this terrible, terrible, arc...I'm just happy it's over.

[wenxina]

Okay... where to start? Hmmm... how about how much I loved this issue? Yeah, that's as good a place as any. This, and #22 have been the only two issues of the entire "Predators and Prey" arc that I've really liked. #21 was okay too, but the clunky start kinda robbed it.

Art: I guess there was a silver lining after all, in last month's hiatus from overall quality. The Richards' stinky art was coupled with Krueger's stinky writing. But it gave Jeanty time to do this, deliver art worthy to be compared to "WatG" again. The pencils are definitely some of the strongest I've seen in a while. And personally, I think Jeanty may have done his best SMG likeness to date in the panel right after Xander tells her Dawn's dirty li'l secret.

Inks and colors were good. Especially the colors. After last month's debacle... Madsen also returns to grace with this issue. The colors are nice and crisp, without any of that nasty green she used on the tentacled monster in #24.

Couple of little things I noted. One, Leah's shirt apparent gets shorter in the span of a few panels. The first panel we see her in (page 5), her sleeveless checked shirt reveals a teensy bit of midriff. The next page, you see that the shirt is now longer in the 2nd panel (and solid green), and by the third panel, it's checked again, but now, it's been Britney-fied! And then after the fight with the six vampires... Leah changes clothes into a lime green polo.I just thought it was funny that it's always Leah who gets the instant clothes/weapon change. See the battle royal in #15 for Leah's magical ability to switch weapons very quickly.

Writing: Doug Petrie returns the series to grace with some great writing. The wit, the wordplay, the pop-culture references (like real pop-culture references, not generic ones like that used in #24... I really am hating on #24). All there. And even better, some great lines between Dawn and Buffy. Xander gets some good ones too, but they're not as poignant, as it should be.

I find it hilarious that the "army" we were expecting consisted of six vampires, who were probably kinda drunk if they thought that it was a good idea to storm the Slayer fortress. Wonder if there were more of them (hence, "army") but the rest just came to their senses faster. That said, whoever has been feeding Slayer Org. intel really needs to cross-reference before sounding the alarm. I mean, Willy the Snitch was a wee bit more reliable than this. Six vampires... pfft!

Really liked how this issue wrapped up the Buffy/Dawn abandonment issues too, by giving us Buffy's side for why she's been ignoring Dawn's predicament. I'm glad to have Dawn back to normal. The thing with Kenny was actually quite sweet (he calls her "Dawnie" too), and I'm glad that they finally got to have that talk that should have come instead of the magical smiting. Or was that "magickal"? Seems that all Dawn had to do was apologize for what she did to free herself of her magical freakshow. Nifty.

One little aside: Wonder how Lorelahn and the rest of the forest peeps are gonna take the death of their buddy? I mean, did Buffy really break the truce? And then hurl the munchkin and kill him/it? The panel that shows him lying in a heap post-toss shows "X"s for eyes... usually a comic notation for dead. But how cool is it that Buffy actually speaks whatever crazy language the forest people do? Or at least understands it.

Now... two months before #26. But hey, "Tales of the Vampires" one-shot as a fill-in. Could be good...

[AndrewCrossett]

I liked the issue a lot. I was a little bit disappointed that Dawn's condition turned out to be no more than what we were told it was... jealous Kenny casting a spell on her. Seems like there should have been more to it than that. Still, the Buffy/Dawn reconciliation made it worthwhile.

It was really nice to have all the characters with their familiar voices again. I didn't despise "Safe" like most of you did, but this was definitely an improvement.

Am I the first to point out that the "tree gremlin" discovered by Buffy and Xander was none other than Jeremy Hillary Boob from "Yellow Submarine"? Another YS reference from Jeanty?

(I don't think they killed him, by the way... that would be odd. He was just unconscious.)

So Willow is now casting spells by saying stuff backwards? Has she been studying magic under Zatanna? Cause that would be sexy.

Also sexy: Dawn after the spell breaks. Confirming Season 8 as by far the nakedest Buffy season ever.

Still waiting to see any sign that the Slayers are really in trouble as a result of their bad PR. I guess things are going to go downhill fast starting with #26. Hope they've got some magical defenses put in on that new HQ of theirs, considering Twilight knows exactly where it is.

This was definitely a good end to the arc. And June fill-in issue or no, it's gonna be a looooong wait until July.

[Emmie]

Xi, couldn't agree more with your comments on the art and the story. Word. But you already know we share a brain - actually aren't you typing this message right now? Zomg!

[wenxina]

Nice catch on Willow's backwards spell... I didn't even notice it. Well... if it's not Zatanna... then maybe Scorpion from MK.
I did consider it odd that Buffy would have killed the bugger... and hey, as you said, he's probably just knocked out. But again, "X"s for eyes is common notation for being dead.

[hitnrun017]

May 6, 2009 18:11:51 GMT -5 AndrewCrossett said:

So Willow is now casting spells by saying stuff backwards? Has she been studying magic under Zatanna? Cause that would be sexy.

Hahaha, wow that is great! Thanks for pointing that out.

Can't stop flipping through it, it's too beautiful. I'm pretty sure this issue has a Top 5 spot. Come Season 9, I really hope Petrie comes back.

[Mathieu]

Ok you guys already covered it all. Not much more to add, except that I didn't enjoy the issue as much as you guys. It was fun to read and it had some enetertaining lines but I have to agree with Andrew when he says that the Dawn/Kenny storyline was a let down. We are given exatcly what we all expected to find out. The guy cast a spell on Dawn just out of jealousy. Ok... and all it took was to apologize to have him change his mind. Damn, why didn't she try that sooner? It would have spared us 25 issues of us wondering what the hell was going on with her. And I'm still not sure I understand what a thricewise "exactly" is.

Also, I think BTVS is at its best when the characters are in pain. So all the heartwarming dialogs... doesn't do the trick for me.

[wenxina]

I don't think what Thricewises are as a demon species was meant to surface here. All we were supposed to get from this is that they are shape-shifting demons, and they have magical abilities, though apparently, usually they're not as adept as Kenny.

[BlueJay]

Wow, by far, this is one of my favorite issues. It's def in my top 5 fav.
So...not much to comment on at this point cuz other people already covered it.
Well..... there are some things
1) I TOTALLY missed that Andrew was Xander's inside man. I honestly didn't realize it until someone on here mentioned it.
2) Kenny's frikkin awesome. They should bring him back some time. Maybe be part of the final battle in his human AND demon form. (EPIC)
3) Willow saying "GET OVA HERE" backwards is hilarious. Methinks it is a Mortal Kombat reference, which I am a HUGE fan of.
4) Geppetto. 'Nuff said

[Emmie]

May 6, 2009 18:58:22 GMT -5 Mathieu said:

I have to agree with Andrew when he says that the Dawn/Kenny storyline was a let down. We are given exatcly what we all expected to find out. The guy cast a spell on Dawn just out of jealousy. Ok... and all it took was to apologize to have him change his mind. Damn, why didn't she try that sooner? It would have spared us 25 issues of us wondering what the hell was going on with her. And I'm still not sure I understand what a thricewise "exactly" is.

I think that's kinda missing the point here. Dawn getting back to herself and all these transformations - the story is more about Dawn's journey and learning to be comfortable with herself than the end result of finally breaking the spell. She finally learns to stop running away and looking for Buffy to rescue her and learns to own up to her own actions and how she's hurt someone else.

[darthrosenberg9]

I loved this issue!I was really looking forward to it, and (major Twilight revelation aside) it didn't disappoint. Unfortunately, I got it late--so everyone already said most of my good points about it.

I thought the whole thing was amazing. It was by far the best Buffyesque dialogue we've had in months. I think Buffy, Xander, and Dawn were spot-on. I agree that the dolls weren't developed enough.....but a lot of the time spent on them in a tv ep would have been shadows and creepy music anyway. Oh well. I also liked the tie-in with the forest creatures and the pact. It makes them seem less absurd.

I loved the Buffy-Dawn sister moments AND finally getting Buffy's explanation for her behavior.

Overall, I was very pleased.

[Nicholas]

I was very please with this issue as I felt it had a beautiful underlying meaning to it. The way that Dawns story was told and finally wrapped up in this issue I felt was done very well. I think my favorite part was learning that all that Dawn had to do was apologise in order to break the spell, but I think the main factor was that she had to forgive herself as well, which is why she stayed in the other forms for so long, which is why people couldn't break the spell.
Buffy and Dawnie finally got back on the sister bandwagon! Yay! Basically, her ignoring Dawn was pretty much what I figured and wasn't really surpised there as I liked what I had predicted prior.

Andrew and the Yoda totems were priceless. He has really become an actual family member and im pleased.

I really felt that Willow isn't getting enough facetime but hopefully that will be solved in time of Retreat. I feel her story should be developed more...
...as well as the Dolls in this issue. I felt that they were the only downfall this issue had, considering they got very little facetime and hardly no explanation whatsoever.

[buffyfan21]

I really enjoyed this issue. I agree with whoever said it is the best issue out of the Predators and Prey arc. Doug Petrie is one of my favorite Buffy writers and I love all his episodes, Living Doll is certainly no exception. I felt that this issue had everything, most off all the witty banter that we know so well. It was nice to Xander and Buffy hanging out and spending time. Also nice to see Xander more in touch with his witty, wisecracking self. Also good that Dawn is now free of her curse. And who would have thunk it would only take a simple apology? But seriously, did anyone else think the Dawn doll was slightly creepy???

[vampmogs]

Sorry long post but I'm basically summarising my opinion of this issue, Dawn's story and the Predators and Prey arc all at once.

Well in my opinion ‘Living Doll’ was easily the best issue of ‘Predators and Prey,’ and when I say that I mean it’s miles ahead of the rest. The writing, the story and the *art* was a definite improvement over the last few issues. The issue left me very satisfied in many ways and made me laugh out loud on a number of occasions. Hopefully this is a positive sign that ‘Predators and Prey’ was just a mid-season slump and that season eight will now reach the great heights it’s been very capable of in the past. I had great “faith” in Petrie and he didn’t disappoint.

The banter between Buffy/Xander was a highlight of this issue and something I regularly look forward to now. However, one does have to wonder about some of Xander’s advice this season? I’m afraid this uber closeness to Buffy has somewhat hampered his ability to give her constructive criticism. When Buffy finally acknowledges that she’s been too much of a slayer and not enough of a sister, Xander quells that self-realisation by pointing out that she is a slayer. Whilst that may indeed be true, what Buffy says has far more truth to it and Xander risked comforting Buffy out of accepting that. He knows it’s a problem between both siblings as he’s been the sounding board for Dawn as well, so it seemed a little unconstructive to try and sugar coat it for Buffy. The same thing happened in ‘A Beautiful Sunset’ which his attachment to Buffy clearly blinds him to the severity of her bank robbing activities. I wonder if this is an intentional development?

I was quite happy with the rather simplistic yet very effective way to break the curse. Dawn’s apology was an admission of guilt and remorse and those are two things that are of great importance in the Buffyverse. It was a nifty way to end the spell and to allow Dawn to move on from her past mistakes. Even more importantly it was a useful device from a storytelling POV, as it gave more cause as to why Willow failed to break the whammy.

This issue was full of “squee” moments for me, with the great Buffy/Xander moments, Willow’s sheer anger towards Kenny which just shows how much she cares for Dawn and of course the Buffy/Dawn moment at the end of the issue. I’ve waited all seasons long for that particular scene and my only complaint was that we didn’t get five pages more of it. I mean really, could there possibly be a sweeter line than;

BUFFY: "I have a thousand soldiers. Only one sister...I love my sister to death"

Those adorable moments have been few and far between this arc so it’s nice to get those warm fuzzy feelings again.

I want to give an honourable mention to Georges Jeanty this issue because he’s back at the top of his game with the art. I have always been a big supporter of the guy and have loved his work. However, I couldn’t help but notice that his art seemed a little rushed of late so it was fantastic to see it back at the same quality it had been earlier in the season. I hope it sticks because it’s such a joy to see this world.

Now that Dawn’s Thricewise arc is wrapped up, I think it would be a great time to reflect back on her storyline this season. There’s no question that this arc has been one of the most “hit and miss” aspects of season eight. It worked for some people and failed miserably for others, but I most definitely lean towards the former. Speaking on my own behalf I can say that I came out of this season enjoying Dawn’s character more than I ever have before. I can say with confidence that this arc served me very well. The extravagant premise of a giant and a centaur never bothered me, because in typical ‘Buffy’ fashion it made an elaborate and ridiculous premise, both relatable and intimate. As always I found that the dialogue grounded the story and it was hard for me to be distracted by Dawn’s size or her horse’s arse, when Dawn was as funny, fallible, charming, brave and human as ever.

I got two different things out of this arc and they both left me really satisfied. The first was that it depicted Dawn as the capable, resourceful young woman that she is now. She could have regressed back to her fourteen year old self, as I’m sure some fans would expect her to, and she could have whined about her problems and wallowed in self-pity. She could have acted out in rebellion, stomping down trees and causing trouble along the moors. But that’s not Dawn anymore and it hasn’t been for a very long time, this arc just made that indisputable. The other big satisfying development was the (much needed) progression of the Buffy/Dawn relationship. Buffy finally accepts and understands that she hasn’t always been the best sister to Dawn and we finally outgrow the “Dawn’s in trouble, it must be Tuesday” tired formula. Dawnie can take care of herself now and finally Buffy/Dawn can outgrow the roles they never quite shook off since season five. Buffy can finally be a sister and not just a slayer and protector to Dawn.

My biggest hope for Dawn for the remainder of the season is that her story and her relationship with Buffy doesn’t become stagnant from here. My greatest wish would be that Joss uses this story as a springboard for the character and that all her growth and development will lead to interesting things in the issues still to come.

Overall, ‘Predators and Prey’ has probably been the weakest of the arcs so far. The idea of having five different writers give us their perspective on the global change was very interesting, but didn’t translate well onto the page. This arc lacked the tightness that other arcs have had, and I’ll continue to use season four as an example. The arc involved a lot of pleasant standalones but lacked the bond that glued them together.

Despite its appearances we did get some interesting development throughout this arc. Andrew became a bona-fide member of Buffy’s family, Satsu stopped wallowing over Buffy, we got to see Kennedy out from under Willow’s shadow, Harmony became far more dangerous than anyone could have ever imagined and we saw the Council’s first descent into the nuttiness we encounter in ‘Fray.’ Thankfully this arc ended on a high note, with ‘Living Doll’ being a satisfying conclusion to Dawn’s story and the Buffy/Dawn relationship. It was also, by far the strongest issue of the arc which at least leaves me with fond memories of how this all played out in the end.

I’m ready to move on to ‘Retreat’ now though, and look forward to the focus returning back onto the Scoobies and the Twilight dilemma. Thankfully I had no idea where all this talk about Twilight for Issue #25 was coming from (I now know about Allie's comment in the back of an issue) so I wasn't disapointed by the lack of development at the end of this issue.

[AndrewCrossett]

May 7, 2009 4:33:20 GMT -5 vampmogs said:

BUFFY: "I have a thousand soldiers. Only one sister...I love my sister to death"

This line immediately reminded me of the fact that Buffy has, in fact, loved Dawn to death... her own death. And the subsequent lines:

"It won't come to that."

"Not today."

Put me in mind of the season 5 crisis, when Buffy had to be ready to kill her own sister, if necessary, to stop Glory, but loved her so much (despite knowing she wasn't really her natural sister) that she gave her own life instead.

That was the highlight of the issue for me.

May 7, 2009 4:33:20 GMT -5 vampmogs said:

it was hard for me to be distracted by Dawn’s size or her horse’s arse,

I was much more distracted by her human arse.