Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Aug 12, 2009 3:28:45 GMT -5
Anyone else think of all un-Canon work as existing in the same alternate reality? ( to the eps / canon work, like a 'Wishverse') So all the early Buffy comics + Aftermath and so on are all existing in that reality, thats how I think of it anyway.
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jellymoff
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Post by jellymoff on Aug 12, 2009 7:28:20 GMT -5
I definitely think the old Buffy run exists in its own "alternate reality", because many of the comics reference events that happen in other comics of that run. Personally, I wouldn't put "Aftermath" in the same category, because there's no sense of acknowledgement that any events that happen in past Buffy comics impact these characters lives.
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BlueJay
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Post by BlueJay on Aug 14, 2009 13:43:34 GMT -5
I frikkin love Dark Horse because they truly care about the fans and take the Buffyverse seriously. If we catch a mistake, they make an effort to fix it; they found a good balance of business and fan service. (Also, their comics are 3 bucks. Which in my book, is convenient, not gonna lie.) But I still gave IDW a decent chance. (A chance that cost me well over a hundred bucks.)
So after reading After the Fall and Aftermath, I now consider all Angel stories from IDW noncanon. They're cute little stories, but to me, it's not the real deal. Joss is no longer involved and from what I understand, Joss merely laid out the ground work, but it was mostly Brian Lynch who wrote all the big stuff. And Aftermath was just... silly... Also, it just doesn't FEEL like Angel anymore. Yeah, Buffy's a little out there, but it still has that Buffy essence. Angel just feels...I don't know, like it's in the wrong hands.
I read the Angel issues just because it's all there is, but I have a feeling that in the long run, Buffy will eventually contradict Angel's continuity, and we all will be forced to accept Angel as noncanon.
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Post by henzINNIT on Aug 14, 2009 14:01:21 GMT -5
I frikkin love Dark Horse because they truly care about the fans and take the Buffyverse seriously. If we catch a mistake, they make an effort to fix it; they found a good balance of business and fan service. (Also, their comics are 3 bucks. Which in my book, is convenient, not gonna lie.) But I still gave IDW a decent chance. (A chance that cost me well over a hundred bucks.) Buffy season 8 - featuring the continuity destorying Warren, giant Dawn robots and woodland critters. ... I don't see them taking things more seriously over there, lol. ATF balls'd up forgetting about Angel's tattoo, and it was addressed after fan-reaction.
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BlueJay
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Post by BlueJay on Aug 14, 2009 14:47:42 GMT -5
I frikkin love Dark Horse because they truly care about the fans and take the Buffyverse seriously. If we catch a mistake, they make an effort to fix it; they found a good balance of business and fan service. (Also, their comics are 3 bucks. Which in my book, is convenient, not gonna lie.) But I still gave IDW a decent chance. (A chance that cost me well over a hundred bucks.) Buffy season 8 - featuring the continuity destorying Warren, giant Dawn robots and woodland critters. ... I don't see them taking things more seriously over there, lol. ATF balls'd up forgetting about Angel's tattoo, and it was addressed after fan-reaction. Like I said, Buffy is a little out there as well, but I still feel that spark. The woodland critters I buy, and I agree that mecha Dawn was ridiculous, and that whole Warren bit is being fixed as we speak.
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 14, 2009 15:44:19 GMT -5
Saying IDW doesn't care about the Buffyverse is a bit absurd and ridiculous. Aftermath was a mistake, we all know that. No one is perfect though and every comic issue in a series can't be perfect.
But the level of care in everything else they have given us since After the Fall started has just about completely made up for Angel's cancellation, in my book. I couldn't be happier with the series.
It's fine if you didn't like the series, but company bashing just gets too offensive.
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patxshand
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Post by patxshand on Aug 14, 2009 16:00:58 GMT -5
I agree 100% with Wyndam. IDW's treatment of Angel has been one of the best aspects of my last few years, and they've made some of the best stories I've ever read.
"After the Fall" is 100% canon. No getting around that.
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BlueJay
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Post by BlueJay on Aug 21, 2009 22:46:32 GMT -5
I never said that IDW doesn't care about the fans. I was only talking about the end result, not the process of making the product or its service to its buyers. If anything, the nice Marci lady at IDW's phone line is really nice and helpful.
After the Fall was amazing for the first 5 issues, but it lost its charm afterwards. I may be wrong, but I think it was at this point that Joss physically stopped being involved. So along with this series we get several original miniseries such as Spike: After the Fall (which I have yet to read, so I'm going to overlook it). We also got Blood & Trenches, which was a good read, but it wasn't "omigod amazing". And what's with the episode adaptations? Smile Time, Not Fade Away, and now A Whole in the World? Just seems silly to me to buy and read a comic version of a live-action episode. As for Aftermath, we all agree that was a mistake, and Only Human seems very promising so far. So I admit, this month, all the issues were excellent (LOVED Drusilla, part 1). And I hope they keep it up. But all I can say is that except for recently, IDW has never gotten me excited like Darkhorse has.
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Post by angeliclestat on Aug 22, 2009 6:01:12 GMT -5
Thats fair enough Jay - but for others they have. I LOVE being abvle to buy a new Angel title every month. And the only thing that IDW has done that hasnt worked for me is |Aftermath considering that in the last 4 years they have put out in the region of 55 issues of Angel (not counting the Spike issues) - then that aint a bad record. I find it tiresome when people complain about a product (such as the episode adaptations) as a waste of time when *nobody* is forcing you to buy them. They are there for the people that want them. But if you dont then thats cool. ( this is not directed at you Jay specifically but the sentiment in general!
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Post by kaleidoscope on Aug 22, 2009 8:47:43 GMT -5
Thats fair enough Jay - but for others they have. I LOVE being abvle to buy a new Angel title every month. And the only thing that IDW has done that hasnt worked for me is |Aftermath considering that in the last 4 years they have put out in the region of 55 issues of Angel (not counting the Spike issues) - then that aint a bad record. I agree with this. I can't imagine what it would be like if we weren't getting a new Angel title each month, plus they've done a really excellent job through Scott Tipton and Brian Lynch in establishing Spike as a solo character in his own right with some truly excellent comics and character developement - a bit off topic this, but why haven't Joss and Darkhorse done this with Faith ? I think it would be a positive thing for that character. I can't see that Angel would have received all this care and attention if the title had stayed with Dark Horse so I think that what we've got is for the best for both lines of comics. The canon question doesn't worry me too much because I'm enjoying what I'm getting - Aftermath excepted.
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BlueJay
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Post by BlueJay on Aug 24, 2009 17:48:09 GMT -5
I kinda agree with ya about making a Faith series. C'mon Darkhorse, bring on Faithy.
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Post by angeliclestat on Aug 25, 2009 6:45:24 GMT -5
Ya I would read a Faith series - more so than the Buffy one to be honest.
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Post by darkeanarchy on Sept 3, 2009 9:10:49 GMT -5
Canon matters to me only as far as that I like to know for certain what actually is and what isn't to be considered canon. I'll read and (for the most part) enjoy all the Whedon related comic book material whether or not it is canon but I like to go into it knowing one way or another. That's my only issue with the current Angel situation. I'm going to keep reading the ongoing Angel series anyway and I'm enjoying it a great deal (even some parts of Aftermath, believe it or not) but this whole 'some parts of the run are canon and others aren't' deal is a little annoying. If the numbering of a give series continues then I like to think that the essence of the story is continuous as well. I don't like this feeling that I don't know where the 'true story' begins and ends. If the canon stuff ended with After the Fall then I'd have preferred that the numbering ended there as well and a new series (or multiple limited series) replaced it, thereby offering a definite end to the television show continuity, at least until another canon story was on the cards. It's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things but it would have made for a slightly tidier situation than what we have. All that said, I'd much prefer that Joss just sanctioned the entire run as canon because so far everything since After the Fall* has been a great ride and deserves to be considered as official Angel. *Certain elements of Aftermath are excluded from the above statement...
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Post by Brian Lynch on Sept 3, 2009 9:43:20 GMT -5
Jay, don't guess when Joss stopped being involved...because you'd be wrooooooong.
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Post by VampSlayer on Sept 3, 2009 16:54:45 GMT -5
I frikkin love Dark Horse because they truly care about the fans and take the Buffyverse seriously. If we catch a mistake, they make an effort to fix it; they found a good balance of business and fan service. (Also, their comics are 3 bucks. Which in my book, is convenient, not gonna lie.) But I still gave IDW a decent chance. (A chance that cost me well over a hundred bucks.) So after reading After the Fall and Aftermath, I now consider all Angel stories from IDW noncanon. They're cute little stories, but to me, it's not the real deal. Joss is no longer involved and from what I understand, Joss merely laid out the ground work, but it was mostly Brian Lynch who wrote all the big stuff. And Aftermath was just... silly... Also, it just doesn't FEEL like Angel anymore. Yeah, Buffy's a little out there, but it still has that Buffy essence. Angel just feels...I don't know, like it's in the wrong hands. I read the Angel issues just because it's all there is, but I have a feeling that in the long run, Buffy will eventually contradict Angel's continuity, and we all will be forced to accept Angel as noncanon. I actually think Buffy Season 8 has a totally different feel from the show. It didn't feel like Buffy until Retreat, IMO. Angel has kept the same feel as the show, and I like that. When I say Angel, I mean AtF, of course. I agree that Aftermath was terrible.
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Post by Brian Lynch on Sept 3, 2009 16:58:38 GMT -5
I just got the PDF of issue 27 and holy nuts, if this storyline ("Boys and Their Toys") was an episode of the show, I really think people would flip. For all the right reasons. No negative flipping.
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Post by Emmie on Sept 3, 2009 17:13:03 GMT -5
Cool! Can't wait to read it.
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Malsad
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Post by Malsad on Sept 3, 2009 21:47:24 GMT -5
sweet!
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Aug 27, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
Thought I'd resurrect this thread since the move to Dark Horse has dredged up the topic once again. Also, I've recently been working on the "Canon" article at the Buffyverse Wiki. Since this is one of the most controversial topics in the Buffyverse, I thought it was important to have a decent article to explain it. Was wondering if anybody fancied taking a look and giving any feedback? I still have a few sections I want to expand (namely the "Non-canon" section) but all the controversial stuff is mostly covered to my liking. buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Canon
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 27, 2010 18:13:21 GMT -5
Thought I'd resurrect this thread since the move to Dark Horse has dredged up the topic once again. Also, I've recently been working on the "Canon" article at the Buffyverse Wiki. Since this is one of the most controversial topics in the Buffyverse, I thought it was important to have a decent article to explain it. Was wondering if anybody fancied taking a look and giving any feedback? I still have a few sections I want to expand (namely the "Non-canon" section) but all the controversial stuff is mostly covered to my liking. buffy.wikia.com/wiki/CanonI pretty much agree exactly with this article's listing of canon. I consider all of the stuff listed as "ambiguous canon" to be non-canon, since I think it's an either/or situation... just like things are either real or imaginary in real life, so they are either real or imaginary in a fictional world.
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