Normal Again

[ladyparasyte]

At the risk of having most of my posts become"ya know what I have a problem with" posts,I must make a comment about the episode in Season 6"Normal Again".
The part I have a problem with is where Buffy confesses to Willow that she was put in a mental institution when she saw her first vampire.
This is ridiculous.
So your telling me that the first time Joyce saw a vamp staked when Spike showed up at the house in the end of Season 2 that Joyce wouldn't have brought that fact up with a "You mean, you were telling the truth" kind of response.
Or when Buffy had that spell on her by Amy witchy mom in Season 1 when she was in the kitchen she was rambling and started to say the words Vampire Slayer.Don't you think her Mom would have paid attention to those words if the institution story was true.
I realize the institution story was an afterthought on the writers part but really...I was annoyed by it.
Other than that the episode was very interesting and it really didn't need that story twist.Just seemed like someone was sleeping at the wheel with that episode.

[sagewoman]

That particular episode bothered me a lot - I had just seen "A Brilliant Mind" with Russel Crowe and then "Normal Again". I think the writers did a fantastic job.
I agree with the inconsistencies comments and wished they were less troubling, but the plot was much more believable knowing that Buffy was in an institution when she was younger. I can see how she would doubt her sanity as the doctor and her parents were very convincing.

[commandercool]

That episode almost would've made an amazing series finale. Maybe.

[roguewarrior]

I liked the episode. it was really interesting.

[Lukee]

This is one of my all time favorite episodes.
I loved the whole is it really all in Buffy's head.
I think the nick picking with Joyce is a little meh. Like Buffy has said before when strange stuff happen the adults of the town seem to block it from there minds. Maybe Joyce just didn't want it to be true.

I think this would have been a great series final episode it would have left a lot of tongues wagging.
I know people say that it wasn't meant to make you wounder if Buffy the vampire slayer is all in Buffy's head because it was the demon making her see them things but in the last clip it showed us them saying we've lost her, kinda mixing us up a little here.

[matthewblake]

I love the episode but HATE that Buffy tells Willow she was in an institution.
I wish they left that out.

[Lukee]

I like the 'Buffy was in a mad house' thing, it added something more to her that we didn't already know which was good. and the comic slayer interrupted was great XD

[henzINNIT]

Yeah its a bit annoying. Buffy writers were often praising their "Character comes First" ethic but I do get annoyed by the continuity errors and lazy plots that it bred.
Maybe it wasn't true. Altered perception of the past may have been another element to the demon poison.

[Bennyboi]

Just think about it guys, Dawn wasn't created when Joyce first saw Buffy stake that first vamp. Maybe Dawn somehow affected time and Joyce found out some other way about Buffy, like in the 'Slayer Interrupted' comic maybe?

[sagewoman]

mikey said:

That was actually my favorite part. :-P Because Buffy's next line was "...what if I'm still there?!". That gives me chills everytime I hear it.

Me too! It was so eerie.

[Giant Michael]

As has been said, they always made a point of Joyce's 'selective memory'. I think it applies here.

I've always been bothered by the way the episode ends, though. I realise they were trying to make it ambiguous as to whether Buffy was in the institution or not, but it never really comes off; I have too much invested in the series - and in Buffy as a character - to believe that this is the case, but the way the episode concludes does seem to suggest that she's still in there.

MB x

[Slayer489]

michaelbush said:

As has been said, they always made a point of Joyce's 'selective memory'. I think it applies here.

I've always been bothered by the way the episode ends, though. I realise they were trying to make it ambiguous as to whether Buffy was in the institution or not, but it never really comes off; I have too much invested in the series - and in Buffy as a character - to believe that this is the case, but the way the episode concludes does seem to suggest that she's still in there.

MB x

I agree with the theory of Joyce's 'selective memory'.

I think the end is just the 'story' or whatever you want to call it, dying out in Buffy's head. She overcame it, but still needed to take that potion thing to end it completely, so it was just disappearing at that point.

[Gothik]

bennyboi said:

Just think about it guys, Dawn wasn't created when Joyce first saw Buffy stake that first vamp. Maybe Dawn somehow affected time and Joyce found out some other way about Buffy, like in the 'Slayer Interrupted' comic maybe?

I've read versions of that theory before and it makes a lot of sense if you actually want to put some kind of reasoning to why the mental institution was never mentioned before. What if it never actually happened and was simply part of the revised history that Dawn's arrival created?

The original timeline that was in everyone's memories up to the end of Buffy vs Dracula would be the one that Joyce remembered during the events of episodes like The Witch and Becoming Part 2, where Joyce made no obvious reference to Buffy ever have mentioned being the slayer before.

However, if the revised memories that the monks created included a new event where Dawn's presence led to Buffy having her secrets discovered and Joyce and Hank thinking she had gone a little nuts, as in 'Slayer Interrupted', then that would mean that Buffy and Joyce would also remember the events of The Witch and Becoming Part 2 differently to how we saw them happen too. As far as they now remember they may well have had a very different conversation to what we heard. For a start, they would remember Dawn being present that night.

That is all just theory of course but it does allow for the events to all make sense.

[Gothik]

Blocking something out in every day life is one thing but totally ignoring the fact you have just found out that your daughter really is a vampire slayer and making no reference to the fact you once put her in a mental home for claiming the exact same thing is a bit of a stretch. Nobody represses to that extent. Not even Joyce.

Joss and the ME writers are usually spot on when it comes to creating retro-continuity but in this case there is a certain logic missing to Joyce's reaction in Becoming Part 2, given what we are later told. The new Dawn related memories at least allow for a little benefit of the doubt that maybe it all fits after all.

[Gothik]

So, you think Joyce and Hank had Buffy put into a mental home because she was sneaking out of the house at night and getting in trouble? You don't think that Buffy would have had to display some pretty serious "craziness" before her parent's chose to have her put into professional care?

Besides, Joyce knew...

BUFFY: Back when I saw my first vampires. I got so scared. I told my parents and they completely freaked out. They thought there was something seriously wrong with me. So they sent me to a clinic.

WILLOW: You never said anything...

BUFFY: I was only there a couple of weeks. I stopped talking about it and they let me go. Eventually, my parents just, forgot.

Buffy specifically told her mum about the vampires. Joyce may well have chosen to repress the details afterwards but when confronted with the fact her daughter really was a vampire slayer in Becoming it makes no sense to just assume she wouldn't recall putting Buffy into care for talking about the exact same thing only a year or two before. There is repression and there is ludicrous total denial, which is what Joyce would need to be capable of.

[hitnrun017]

mikey said:

"
The only other answer is that Buffy really is in a clinic, and the entire show has been in her mind. Which is a twist I would actually love.

I remember watching the finale on the that awful day, May 20, and that's how I was expecting the show end. I thought right at the end Buffy would wake up in the mental institution. I agree that it would of been a great twist.

[Slayer489]

hitnrun017 said:

mikey said:

"
The only other answer is that Buffy really is in a clinic, and the entire show has been in her mind. Which is a twist I would actually love.

I remember watching the finale on the that awful day, May 20, and that's how I was expecting the show end. I thought right at the end Buffy would wake up in the mental institution. I agree that it would of been a great twist.

It would be an interesting twist, but I'm glad that it was never used.

[Gothik]

mikey said:

"Eventually my parents just forgot". There you go. DE-NI-AL. Joyce repressed the memories of "vampires" because she did not believe Buffy. She thought that they were a metaphor for something else, probably. And we do not know exactly how the whole conversation went after Joyce found out for real. Keep in mind, she was in shock!

The only other answer is that Buffy really is in a clinic, and the entire show has been in her mind. Which is a twist I would actually love.

So either Joyce totally and utterly blocked all memory of Buffy ever mentioning vampires before and blocked out the whole institution saga or Buffy really is just a patient in a mental home? Those are the only two options for you? Seriously? Okaaay...

So why exactly would Joyce choose to forget the vampire details? Denial is basically forcing yourself to ignore or forget information. Why would Joyce do this to herself? I mean, if you had one of your kids put into care after telling you that she thought vampires were real and it was her job to kill them, wouldn't that stick with you? And just a couple of years later, when there was actually proof in front of your eyes that she had been telling the truth and that she really was the slayer, wouldn't you think you would ring a few bells. Even if you hadn't given it any thought for all that time, it's not something you are going to forget.

The idea of denial only works to a point. It has to be said that Joyce should have made some sort of connection to the events that led to Buffy being locked away and the events of the night she found out her daughter was a slayer. The true reason that she didn't do so was obviously that the writers only came up with the institution idea as a part of Normal Again so personally I'm happy to accept this as being a minor continuity glitch created by a little retconning of Buffy's history. However, the beauty of any continuity glitches that happened after Dawn was created is that they can be explained away by the false memories that came with her. The reason that Joyce didn't mention the institution is very simply because it only happened in the false history that Buffy now remembers. Very simple.

[Gothik]

mikey said:

Dude, it's a continuity blooper. Let it go.

Erm, pretty sure I'd already covered that with "...so personally I'm happy to accept this as being a minor continuity glitch created by a little retconning of Buffy's history". I've no problem with accepting that even the best writers can't always plan for every plot detail you might need to include to further a later storyline. Just offering up a possible idea for those who would prefer to smooth over this particular continuity crack that is a little more plausible than "she forgot".

[commandercool]

Silly writers. They should get crazed fans to edit their stuff. There would be less errors that way (cough Warren cough).