Get out get out GET OUT GET OUT!!!!

[siredbyspike]

I completely agree with this!!! You should've heard how i cussed at the t.v. like a crazy person when that episode first aired! Buffy takes them in, saves half of em from getting killed and beats the streets to look for them and gather them together. Then she lets em eat up all her food (when you know her job doesn't pay THAT well haha) and take over her whole house/life and they talk to her like that ! Then they go and kick her out. The only thing good in that episode in my opinion is that it makes the speech Spike gives and her whole little time with him holding her more special and beautiful to me.
I pretty nuch agree with all the opinions on here so far:
HATE RONA, HATE JASMINE, HATE KENNEDY (she's ok sometimes but it just seems to me like it minimizes Willow and Tara's grand awesome immortal love some with her getting with Willow, i just don't feel they have any chemistry)
Cordelia holding Connor when he's a baby one day and then scromping him the next was just gross..cause a long time passed alot for Connor-not Cordy!!
The whole thing of Gunn cheating on Fred doesn't seem like something he would ever do.
Wesley not telling anyone about the father killing the son drives me nuts because they ALWAYS count on each other every other time no matter if they are under a spell or not (if they could snap out of Jasmine's thrall when Fred had to go through all of that to make them see Jasmine, why can't he say "hey Angel, if you feel like killing Connor give us a heads up so we can STOP it and most of season 4 please!")
And let me just say that when Dawn screms GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT i would have completely smacked her! They all just walk off and give in to her little snit. Or maybe they walk out to get away from the high pitched squeal.
Oh yeah, and what's up with Angel still having feelings for Cordy after the Connor thing?! EWWW! If i had a kid who made out with a girl, and she tried to kiss me i DON'T THINK SO!
And i will wrap up my incredibly long post with saying that i felt sorry for the slave too. Cause even if he was a demon he looked pretty sickly and meek, and he may not have ever been evil considering he was a slave and all. He was awfully subservient.
Ahhhh...it felt good to vent all that, hahaha.

[Skytteflickan88]

Sirebyspike, I agree with a lot in your post and disagreed with some, mostly the Wesley thing and I believe that Cordy was too infected by Jasmine to even be called cordy. She wasn't herself, I hope.

And can you clearify when Gunn cheats on Fred? I have only watched season 4 once and might never do it again, so I might have repressed the cheating.

And this part I love you for;

Aug 28, 2008 4:22:40 GMT -5 siredbyspike said:

And i will wrap up my incredibly long post with saying that i felt sorry for the slave too. Cause even if he was a demon he looked pretty sickly and meek, and he may not have ever been evil considering he was a slave and all. He was awfully subservient.
Ahhhh...it felt good to vent all that, hahaha.

[Léo]

I agree on a lot of things that are said here (especially on Angel season 4, which is, IMHO, the biggest train wreck of the buffyverse).
Otherwise, I like Dawn, she is the most determined character in my opinion. And her famous "Get out, get out, GET OUT" is only one of the many facts I like about her. I know she is kind of hated, but that has always surprised me.

[amuk]

Aug 26, 2008 15:07:25 GMT -5 eternalspikefan said:

6. Kicking Buffy out her own house in season 7 (Xander/Willow/Giles and Dawn being as unbelievably ungrateful after everything she had done for them was a little off putting)

Hallelujiah! Someone else said it first. One episode Xander's telling all the Potentials they have no right to question Buffy's leadership and the next thing we know he's helping kick her out. Xander, Buffy's most loyal sidekick! Yes, the writers hit the points they needed to to set this up in a sort of paint-by-numbers sense, but it never actually makes any sense when it comes.

Also:
1) The Initiative.

2) Everyone patronizing Xander for not being competent at the beginning of The Zeppo. By that point in the series, Xander's been in plenty of fights; tearing him down to set up that one episode doesn't really work.

3) Cordy and Angel falling in love. Nope, don't buy it.

[Harmony]

The Initiative! Yes, i hated that! + I wasnt a big fan of Riley or the other people from that season.

[buffyfan21]

I hate how everyone kicks Buffy out of her own home (after 7 years of her saving everyone's ass) b/c they are so sure that she is wrong, when come to find out (and as I suspected, of course) Buffy was right all along. But did they ever say they were sorry? NO. Did we ever hear so much as an apology or admission of wrong from the potentials or the others? NOPE! I think Amanda was right, they definitely got punished. They were lucky not to have died when Faith lead them down into that tunnel. And yet, despite everything, here Buffy is, inviting them back into HER home, and saving their asses once again. Thus, showing that Buffy is indeed the better person for the fact that she would be able to forgive them for all their transgressions against her. Not so sure I could do the same. I think Buffy was able to sit all the drama aside b/c they were busy trying to save the world and that was more important at the time.

It just drives me crazy! I mean, that kind of behavior I would expect from the bratty potentials, b/c they didn't even really know Buffy, but the scoobies, what the hell kind of excuse did they have?! Turning their backs on Buffy and deserting her after all she had done for them and 7 years?!

And Dawn, telling Buffy she had to leave. I'm like, "Umm....I'm sorry, do you pay the bills around here?!" I'm like, "Excuse me...you are the child and she is the adult." I mean, Buffy was Dawn's sister and mother all rolled into one. And especially after all she had done to protect Dawn and keep her safe, even to the point of sacrificing her own life, how could Dawn turn her back on her sister that way?!

And Principal Wood piping up and saying, "I believe Faith had the floor." WTF? I'm thinking to myself, "what right do you have to interject your two cents, you don't even live there and it's not like you even know these people." I think Wood was just resentful towards Buffy for the whole Spike thing, so of course he wanted to go along with anybody BUT her.

So yeah, as you can see, I still have a lot of issues with this ep, LOL! There is not much in the Buffyverse I have so strongly objected to, but this definitely takes the cake! I mean, it's bad enough that they kicked Buffy out of her home, but the fact that they couldn't even muster up an apology afterwards is even worse!

[buffyfan21]

Aug 28, 2008 4:22:40 GMT -5 siredbyspike said:

Wesley not telling anyone about the father killing the son drives me nuts because they ALWAYS count on each other every other time no matter if they are under a spell or not (if they could snap out of Jasmine's thrall when Fred had to go through all of that to make them see Jasmine, why can't he say "hey Angel, if you feel like killing Connor give us a heads up so we can STOP it and most of season 4 please!

I completely agree about Wesley not telling Angel about the prophecy. I was so mad at him for that! The way he chose to handle the situation was just SO wrong! I mean, I get that he was so close to the situation and that's why it was so hard for him, but still. He was desperately searching for another way b/c he did not want to believe it to be true, b/c Angel was his friend. But I mean, deciding that stealing Connor away is the best course of action, that I don't get. I mean, you could make the argument that Wesley was just panic stricken and trying to do all he could to protect this poor, helpless child whom he loved, but his actions, in the end, managed to bring on far worse consequences. None of this would have happened if he would've just trusted Angel enough to go to him and talk about it, them, they could've decided what to do together. I think Wes owed Angel at least that much, but no. If Angel thought that he was going to hurt his son, he would've stopped at nothing to ensure that didn't happen. I found myself thinking, "how could someone so smart do something so profoundly stupid?!" Clearly, Wes was at a loss and not thinking in his right mind due to fear and panic, but that is no excuse. He owed his friend better than that.

[siredbyspike]

I can't remember the episode's name off hand. Players maybe? Anyhow it's the one where Gwen takes Gunn to steal a chip that deactivates her electrical current. But she lies to him to get him there and tells him they are looking for a kidnapped girl. Chip gets stolen, she's not buzzy anymore and they get freaky. He and Fred WERE fighting at the time, yes. And maybe they were mostly broken up, but i don't think they were completely. Even if they were i think it was way too soon for him to be bumping recent non-sparkies with lightning tush while Fred is all upset and things are up in the air like that. I like Gwen and all, and i kinda understand why they both did it in a way...cause she could never touch and connect with someone like that before, and Gunn wanted to help show her that maybe. But it still doesn't absolve them from guilt in my opinion.
And another comment on the Wesley not telling Angel about him killing Connor....
The whole 5 seasons of the show Wesley is so attatched to Angel and willing to take up for him and keep him alive while he is Angelus. He is always there whenever people you don't think will be evil are and Angel has to kill them. You would think that if Wesley saw "the father will kill the son" he would definately come and bring it to the gang's attention because his first thought would be "wow, what if it turns out the baby's evil?" Like in the first season when Cordy gets pregnant and he is on his guard thinking something is wrong from the beginning. Connor did come from two vampires, who are/were evil. Wesley obviously knew it was a supernatural, mystical thing.
And yeah i guess i shouldn't have called her Cordy, cause she wasn't herself.(It all must have started with that horrible short bleached blonde haircut i hated on her lmao!)Thanks for making that point cause i never thought about it that way before. And thanks for the love haha, that poor little slave. It's bad enough he bleeds blue kool aid and gets excited over pee, then he always has to be led around on a leash. He had a hard life-or unlife? Whichever.
And oops, AFTER i type all this i realize i forgot to quote the people i was answering beforehand. I'm sorry, forgive me this once, i should have sleep before posting! I hope i don't confuse anyone and will do better next time.

[Skytteflickan88]

A yes, Gwen/Gunn. but didn't Wesley and Fred kiss before that? I assumed that they would never get together again and taht they both knew that. I was too pissed at fred to be mad at Gunn for moving on.

And not to talk back to you other guys or anything, you're allowed to your Wesley-hate, but I loathe Angel/Fred/Gunn and Lorne for turning away from Wesley. Angel was "cured" pretty quickly after the trip to the ocean but the loathing from Gunn/Fred is sickening. After saving Angel's life Fred says "You really don't care about us anymore do you?" or something like that, and she acted like a bitch.

If it were me I would have fleed with the baby and tried to figure out what to do next. in hindsight, we can see that he made a misstake, but Wes didn't know what would happen and he had to act fast. I bet he thought it was more likely that Angel would go evil than that the baby would turn evil, specially since he knew how dark Angel had gone last year while dealing with Darla. Wesley had to act fast. If he had told the others, they might have told Angel, who could in fact have been Angelus for all Wes knew.

I guess I'm not that angry at Lorne, but I doubt that guy sent flowers to the hospital.

[siredbyspike]

Haha, yeah Lorne could have at least sent a pureed fruit basket! The man did have his throat slit! And Lorne's always the thoughtful one.