Post by Skytteflickan88 on Aug 17, 2008 15:39:17 GMT -5
I found this infuriating, yet interesting blog post here wondercow.blogspot.com/2005/05/joss-whedon-is-misogynist-homophobe.html
and responded like this ;
I disagree with you so much.
You ask; ”Why call them watcher's, why not helpers or teachers?” I say ”Who cares?” It's just a name.
And say you that all watcher's are middle-aged stuffy men, unless they are
"are a recurring Indian man who has no lines but looks tough, a snotty Brit woman who turns evil when offered supernatural powers of her own (season 3, “Revelations”), and a scared little blond woman who spends a few minutes trembling under the bemused eyes of the Cheney-like head watcher before being blown to bits (season 7, “Never Leave Me”).
”
Did you know that Whedon didn't first plan for Giles to be a brit? But Anthony Head auditioned and got the part. Perhaps Whedon thought; ”Why not make him wear tweed and be stuffy, that we could joke about for ages”. And Whedon might have chosen a male watcher for Buffy, because he had Buffy, Willow & Cordelia, and wanted another guy, other than Xander & Angel, to even up the numbers.
"In other words, the first slayer was metaphorically raped and forced to bear the burden of that rape, which we the viewers take pleasure in watching week after week.”
Are you trying to make us fans sound like perverts, or are you just born rude and can't stop yourself? That was completely unnessacary. I doubt that the average Buffy-fan saw that seen in Get It Done and unbuttoned their pants. And I for one was glad that Buffy quit the council in season 3, so that those stuffy white middle-aged men couldn't control her anymore.
I really don't understand your standpoint here;
”She is not the strong woman who learns to stand up for herself against the cruelty of an evil man. She becomes the classic abused enabler.”
Yes, she was weak atfirst, because she still loved him. Are you telling me that men who lose their loved ones are indifferent jerks? And may I remind you, in the spirit of girl-power, that in the end of season 2, Buffy finds her inner strength and kills her loved one? Did you expect her to love one day, then hate and be ready to kill the next. The girl needed time, which any male would too. I bet Joss took the oppotunity to make Buffy weak, because a lot of women go through that in high school. he tried to relate to his audience.
And come on, I'm no Spuffy-fan but can you blame her for wanting sex as comfort?
Xander wasn't all that bad either. If you think he's an arrogant boor, I can't convince you otherwise, but I have to say that he made Cordelia & Anya happy most of the time. He let fear and weakness rule him and destroy realtionships, sure, but I doubt that Joss aimed to just make the women victims in relationships. Do you remember how Buffy shut riley out(unintentianlly, but still), how Cordy choose Groo over Angel, and how Nina left Angel?(I assume that you've seen Angel).
”He has to couch it in metaphor, hide Willow’s exploration of sexuality behind her exploration of magic. Willow wants to become a witch, after all. Her relationship with Tara is as much about that shared desire as it is about finding her true self.” Hide? Why do think he's hiding? He's using it as a methaphor, that's it. And yes, they had the magics in common, shared desire. Have you never seen people hook up at work, mainly because they share so much in common?
And about Willow&Tara having to hide intimacy, do you really think that can't be the Networks doing? Why say; ”Joss is a coward” when the logical reasoning is ”If Joss gets too naughty, they will be cancelled”?
And about that they're LESBIANS, not LOVERS... isn't it often like that? Sunnydale is a small town, Willow was raised by strict Jews and you saw Tara's family. Can't they just be certain to call themselves lesbians because it's a bit off were they're from? They feel it different because it actually is different to them and the people around them?
About you complaining about Buffy rinning for men's help in Helpless. Yes, she ran to her boyfriend and her watcher for help, because they have knowledge. If Buffy needs to know about her slayer powers, she shouldn't go to Cordelia or Willow, she should go to Giles, who knows about the slayer-stuff. And no wonder that she is ”a sobbing weakling, a pitiful, pathetic, simpering fool”. She has been superstrong for three years and is suddenly helpless and her mom is being kidnapped. true, a man might have handeled it differently, but Joss didn't re-write the world. It is a paternal would Buffy lives in, and no matter how strong she gets, she has been raised to believe that men know and do better. Joss can't just ignore that fact, he had to be realistic. perhaps you were rasied by very strong women figures, but most of us have grown up in a paternal world.
”Only they’re not. What is unspoken in this moment is the suggestion that equality isn’t possible in the real world. Women aren’t able to hold their own without supernatural interference. Yes, thousands of little girls suddenly have superpowers, but millions more do not. Millions are left weak and wanting, and we wonder what is to become of them? They’re worthless, the show seems to say. Without superpowers, they’re weak, doomed to live in fear. They’re still pitiful creatures in need of protection.” I have to say, you're the first person I've encounter who have seen the end of season 7 that way. And you keep speaking of ”the show” as if it's a mind of it's own. You're filled with hatred and loathing for a man you've never met and whose motives you can only theorize about. Shouldn't you try to look at this from another angle. I mean sure, why didn't all women in the world get this power? Maybe because Joss feelt sorry for all the men. We would get a maternal societey instead of paternal. And about these scenes with women gaining power, I seriously doubt Joss wrote them because he wanted to laugh in the still ordinary women's faces. I think he wanted to enpower the audience. Or maybe he did it to please his wife. I don't know, and neither do you. Don't call him on his motives unless you know them. You are very negative.
I'm sure that a part of Joss thinks that "men are better" but most of us have that part, because we've been raised that way. And I'm sure that a lot of the decisions on the show have been made because the network is scared of being to progressive. But most of all, I'm sure that you can't read Joss mind, only guess what he's thinking. So come on off your high horses and realize that you know very little, but have a lot of certainly valid theories. After all, it's not only women we have seen being wimps on the show.
If you ever want to leave a response or discuss Buffy with me and other fans, I'm at slayalive.com a lot, as member Skytteflickan88
Have a good day, and try not to judge too much.
and responded like this ;
I disagree with you so much.
You ask; ”Why call them watcher's, why not helpers or teachers?” I say ”Who cares?” It's just a name.
And say you that all watcher's are middle-aged stuffy men, unless they are
"are a recurring Indian man who has no lines but looks tough, a snotty Brit woman who turns evil when offered supernatural powers of her own (season 3, “Revelations”), and a scared little blond woman who spends a few minutes trembling under the bemused eyes of the Cheney-like head watcher before being blown to bits (season 7, “Never Leave Me”).
”
Did you know that Whedon didn't first plan for Giles to be a brit? But Anthony Head auditioned and got the part. Perhaps Whedon thought; ”Why not make him wear tweed and be stuffy, that we could joke about for ages”. And Whedon might have chosen a male watcher for Buffy, because he had Buffy, Willow & Cordelia, and wanted another guy, other than Xander & Angel, to even up the numbers.
"In other words, the first slayer was metaphorically raped and forced to bear the burden of that rape, which we the viewers take pleasure in watching week after week.”
Are you trying to make us fans sound like perverts, or are you just born rude and can't stop yourself? That was completely unnessacary. I doubt that the average Buffy-fan saw that seen in Get It Done and unbuttoned their pants. And I for one was glad that Buffy quit the council in season 3, so that those stuffy white middle-aged men couldn't control her anymore.
I really don't understand your standpoint here;
”She is not the strong woman who learns to stand up for herself against the cruelty of an evil man. She becomes the classic abused enabler.”
Yes, she was weak atfirst, because she still loved him. Are you telling me that men who lose their loved ones are indifferent jerks? And may I remind you, in the spirit of girl-power, that in the end of season 2, Buffy finds her inner strength and kills her loved one? Did you expect her to love one day, then hate and be ready to kill the next. The girl needed time, which any male would too. I bet Joss took the oppotunity to make Buffy weak, because a lot of women go through that in high school. he tried to relate to his audience.
And come on, I'm no Spuffy-fan but can you blame her for wanting sex as comfort?
Xander wasn't all that bad either. If you think he's an arrogant boor, I can't convince you otherwise, but I have to say that he made Cordelia & Anya happy most of the time. He let fear and weakness rule him and destroy realtionships, sure, but I doubt that Joss aimed to just make the women victims in relationships. Do you remember how Buffy shut riley out(unintentianlly, but still), how Cordy choose Groo over Angel, and how Nina left Angel?(I assume that you've seen Angel).
”He has to couch it in metaphor, hide Willow’s exploration of sexuality behind her exploration of magic. Willow wants to become a witch, after all. Her relationship with Tara is as much about that shared desire as it is about finding her true self.” Hide? Why do think he's hiding? He's using it as a methaphor, that's it. And yes, they had the magics in common, shared desire. Have you never seen people hook up at work, mainly because they share so much in common?
And about Willow&Tara having to hide intimacy, do you really think that can't be the Networks doing? Why say; ”Joss is a coward” when the logical reasoning is ”If Joss gets too naughty, they will be cancelled”?
And about that they're LESBIANS, not LOVERS... isn't it often like that? Sunnydale is a small town, Willow was raised by strict Jews and you saw Tara's family. Can't they just be certain to call themselves lesbians because it's a bit off were they're from? They feel it different because it actually is different to them and the people around them?
About you complaining about Buffy rinning for men's help in Helpless. Yes, she ran to her boyfriend and her watcher for help, because they have knowledge. If Buffy needs to know about her slayer powers, she shouldn't go to Cordelia or Willow, she should go to Giles, who knows about the slayer-stuff. And no wonder that she is ”a sobbing weakling, a pitiful, pathetic, simpering fool”. She has been superstrong for three years and is suddenly helpless and her mom is being kidnapped. true, a man might have handeled it differently, but Joss didn't re-write the world. It is a paternal would Buffy lives in, and no matter how strong she gets, she has been raised to believe that men know and do better. Joss can't just ignore that fact, he had to be realistic. perhaps you were rasied by very strong women figures, but most of us have grown up in a paternal world.
”Only they’re not. What is unspoken in this moment is the suggestion that equality isn’t possible in the real world. Women aren’t able to hold their own without supernatural interference. Yes, thousands of little girls suddenly have superpowers, but millions more do not. Millions are left weak and wanting, and we wonder what is to become of them? They’re worthless, the show seems to say. Without superpowers, they’re weak, doomed to live in fear. They’re still pitiful creatures in need of protection.” I have to say, you're the first person I've encounter who have seen the end of season 7 that way. And you keep speaking of ”the show” as if it's a mind of it's own. You're filled with hatred and loathing for a man you've never met and whose motives you can only theorize about. Shouldn't you try to look at this from another angle. I mean sure, why didn't all women in the world get this power? Maybe because Joss feelt sorry for all the men. We would get a maternal societey instead of paternal. And about these scenes with women gaining power, I seriously doubt Joss wrote them because he wanted to laugh in the still ordinary women's faces. I think he wanted to enpower the audience. Or maybe he did it to please his wife. I don't know, and neither do you. Don't call him on his motives unless you know them. You are very negative.
I'm sure that a part of Joss thinks that "men are better" but most of us have that part, because we've been raised that way. And I'm sure that a lot of the decisions on the show have been made because the network is scared of being to progressive. But most of all, I'm sure that you can't read Joss mind, only guess what he's thinking. So come on off your high horses and realize that you know very little, but have a lot of certainly valid theories. After all, it's not only women we have seen being wimps on the show.
If you ever want to leave a response or discuss Buffy with me and other fans, I'm at slayalive.com a lot, as member Skytteflickan88
Have a good day, and try not to judge too much.
